What is the Definition of Ettrick??

That's why I have my eyes closed waiting for Bernard's Cane to strike Jack - yes. I don't mind being wrong - but that's what I have "gathered" so far!
 
Campbellclanman said:
This is Great Jack, I am looking at these knives of Charlies, and mine in front of me.... I have MUCH to learn, and with you coming in with this is an amazing help Jack - I pose these questions NOT to argue- but to continue this discussion because I have been trying to investigate lately as much as I can through reading in Levine's, Tweedale's, Goins..... and by looking carefully at the Font of the Stampings etc.

I love that knife with the Wooden Scales and both the Elliot CC marks and the Lockwood - that knife combining the History of the two great Cutlery companies is just awesome...I am going to refer to this knife as the " Elliot / Lockwood Knife".

I am looking at these however.....

The Elliot / Lockwood knife that you have just posted obviously with those two stampings could easily be dated post adjoining of the two Cutler firms in 1930...thats fairly basic.... But the Elliot / Lockwood Knife has England stamped after the Sheffield, The looks to be of a Later model build being Brass pinned, the Font of the stamping is Cleaner and Thinner, The C & The X are clean and have no "Feet" or "Bookshelf endings" on the letters as shown in my hand drawn Picture.

Charlies Knives - the Stamping Font is different than the Elliot / Lockwwod Knife.
On Charlies Knives the Font of the Stamping C & X are deeper and heavier - a different styled font - as shown in my hand drawn picture.

The pathetic Picture of what is a pretty good descriptive Font that are on Charlie's and my knives.....



The knives having their first taste of Mineral Oil.....




This is always something people go for- the knife has no "England" Stamped so therefore likely dates to the 1890's because of the American Tarrif act imposed in 1890's - but that does not necessarily mean knives that do not have England Stamped are pre 1892 etc...

I do believe Charlies and my knives to be early-ish 1900's....


The pins are Hammered and are Iron, the "Youngs Sheep Dips" is not acid etched, they are either Stamped slightly untidier OR Engraved ( I'm still studying that one...)

The Elliot / Lockwood Stamped knife has very clean and even font - and from what I can see Augies Slater has too- cant see if that knife has England Stamped on it - but could bet you it does as it is exactly the same as Jacks "combined stamped beauty".

Im going to stick my neck out and say that Jack is bang on by saying the Wooden Handled knife is Older - the Kick Style, The Font of the Stamping etc - and that knife has a slightly different Pinning pattern to it as well.....

If Bernard Levine was in front of us and asks....."Ok Duncan - give us your opinion on age on Charlie's knives"...I would say 1930's Sir" ( and then close my eyes and wait for the Cane to hit :D

Ok.... Charlie, Jack...that is my summary and takings from what we have discussed - Jack NO offence- this is me sticking my neck out - to 1,...get feedback and opinion and discussion and 2, To learn - with others input that will say- "no Duncan ...look at this and then loo at that etc"...so I am exposing my opinion to learn.
I hope this makes sense?

Am I looking at this the right way - OR ...( you can tell me ) am I way off?

edited to try and make more sense :o
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Very nice, Duncan. :thumbup:

I won't risk a beating with the cane so no guess at this time for the date. :D But if I may add to "1,...get feedback and opinion and discussion..."

I think "England" is mostly helpful when it is present. When it's not present, it depends a lot more on other clues. It would seem that it was not made for export to the US. And the street address is consistent with a date that is later than the tariff act.

The etch doesn't look like an electro-etch or engraving to me Why do you rule out acid etch? Acid etch was my first impression... though I couldn't say with 100% confidence that it's not a stamp. You are at an advantage since the knives are in front of you. A couple hours in ferric chloride, for example, can produce a very deep etch. The edges don't look consistent with a stamp to me. A little fuzzy. Also, it fills nearly the entire surface of the blade and I suspect that such a large stamp would be too troublesome.
 
Just to my 2 cent to the very interesting discussion here is a photo of the tang stamp of the only Lockwood Bros I have ever had, probably from 1950's ?? (according to one honorable expert on Sheffield knives), this will not make things any clearer though

mIAhR2i.jpg


Mike
 
Campbellclanman said:
That's why I have my eyes closed waiting for Bernard's Cane to strike Jack - yes. I don't mind being wrong - but that's what I have "gathered" so far!
Click to expand...

LOL! :D I don't think that's a unreasonable educated guess Duncan. I'd think they're either from the 30's or the 50's :thumbup:

supratentorial said:
I think "England" is mostly helpful when it is present. When it's not present, it depends a lot more on other clues.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
Lads - great stuff
Jake I do agree what you say about the England Stamping, also back to the Blade "Etches"...No its not electro-etch, I DO have lots to learn and need to be in front of someone to point out the minute details you see under the loop to identify the giveaways.

The YOUNGS SHEEP DIPS do have variations to all the edges, and I have lined up all the knives and if these variations were exact in ech area on each Blade- I would say Stamping - going back now Jake after you explain about the Acid going so deep - ....then yes a very big possiblity as the variations ( or untidy edges ) of the YOUNGS SHEEP DIPS vary and are not consistent from knife to knife - this now eliminates Stamping to me, which leaves engraving or acid...this leaves a question for me...if Engraved- would it have these untidy edges - if not - this leaves Acid Etch - but Deep!

Mike- Thank you my friend - that knife then if we are talking about the England being present on the Tangs - is it on that knife?

Jack my friend- as always thank you!
 
Congrats on snagging that box too Duncan! Lots of interesting questions to ponder now. I know pretty much nothing about the old Sheffield knives but am eager to learn more.
 
If you rule out stamp, then I'm pretty sure that its a deep acid etch.

I think Mike's knife is stamped.

I think engraving is probably only economical on very small numbers knives. And engraving would be shiny unless filled in with paint. There wouldn't be any scale. Depending on the quality of the engraving and skill of the engraver, the edges can vary but they are typically more crisp... they can be a bit jagged if the engraver is not particularly skilled.

Based on information from you and Jack, 30s-50s sounds reasonable to me but I'm not 100% certain about the end of the range... or where in that range is most likely. But I think you are doing well if you can narrow it down even that far.

It's a neat treat to find an original box full of unused old knives.
 
I think the Sheep Dip markings are acid etched on the NZs. It is possible the method pre-dates electro-etching; another thing to research!
Magnified, acid etching produces a wavery line, while electro-etching is much cleaner looking.
I have close-ups ready, but photobucket is jerking my chain again!!
 
There were Sheffield cutlers still acid-etching knives in the mid 1990's, possibly still today :thumbup:
 
I actually saw a knife like the NZ Ettricks in an antique shop yesterday!

I suspect an online search would probably reveal more knives if more of the sellers knew the name of the pattern.
 
Although it's not as exciting as boxes full of Young's Sheep Dip knives :D, I thought I'd show off my new A. Wright Rosewood Ettrick.

A884F9A5-10A7-40B3-932A-76D3C8849B15.jpg


D64DBEEC-A461-4718-9843-F02094BEFCBB.jpg


This is my first Ettrick, and it's an interesting pattern. I love how the handle fits in your hand, giving you good control over the comparatively small blade.
 
That's a fine lookin' knife, Barrett.:thumbsup:

The Ettrick's definitely an interesting pattern to carry and use for a while.
 
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Very precise when used in a pencil grip, like an x-acto knife on steroids. Great for detail work!
 
This thread has been "Snoozin' with Rip"! - Van Winkle that is!!:p
I'd love to see some recently discovered Ettricks!!
Anyone??
;)
 
waynorth said:
This thread has been "Snoozin' with Rip"! - Van Winkle that is!!:p
I'd love to see some recently discovered Ettricks!!
Anyone??
;)
Click to expand...

+1 Charlie, it's always fun when this thread pops up :) :thumbsup:
 
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