What is the point?

Kohai999

Kohai999

Second Degree Cutter
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
12,554
I collect certain knives because they represent art and craftsmanship coming together in a way that I am not currently and may never be, capable of doing myself…..and owning these pieces and learning from them leaves me in awe.

When I started on BladeForums, I saw a lot of great communication, but not a lot of solid critique….solid as in “this is what I like, this is what I don’t like, and maybe this will work better”.

This is a small community, and makers like Phil Baldwin, Kevin Cashen, Paul Champagne,Rod Chappel, Matt Diskin, Don Fogg, Larry Fuegen, Dan Maragni, Bill McHenry, J.D. Smith, Butch Vallotton …etc., have been totally unselfish, patient and tolerant in sharing methods, tricks, tips and philosophies with me over the years, and it seemed like I could take all of that, and use this Forum to share the knowledge….and in many ways it works…or at least seems to, based upon the feedback.

It is my belief as a martial artist, that we are mostly doomed to fail, and that the pursuit of doing a better job, and striving to be a better person is what we can realistically achieve….ego is ultimately the death of this struggle, because it turns up the volume on the little internal voice that says “good enough” …..I realize that this is not frequently the attitude that people embrace, nor looking for in an online community…..but it is a different voice.

There are two things that I really have a problem with….wasted resources and the dissemination of falsehoods and misinformation as fact….the makers listed above helped me to embrace this dislike, and to try to make a positive difference.

I’m not perfect, neither is anyone on these Forums….if we all work together for the betterment of the community, we will accomplish great things……If we focus on the finger pointing, the politics and the hurt feelings…we will accomplish nothing. It isn't about me...not even in the slightest...it is about all of us.

Any thoughts as to how to improve the dynamic flow of communication between all parties involved in this community, and striving to be better would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Steven - I don't understand the point of your message. Are you saying that you see much "wasted resources and the dissemination of falsehoods and misinformation as fact" here?

I see a fair deal of the former, not much of the latter myself...
 
I defiantly see your point, Steven. I'm afraid it comes with the territory. One of the greatest things about this forum is that we often have the maker/owner/employee of various knives/knife companies on hand to answer any questions we have. A straight-from-the-horses-mouth sort of thing.
By the same token, this can be a bad thing because people are less likely to criticize said knife/company.
I tend to think that we gain much more from them being here than we lose if they weren't.
It’s just the nature of the beast that is bladeforums.
One possible suggestion to improve things is for posters/fans to not jump down the throat of someone that has criticism of a particular knife/company. As long as they have supporting information for their claims/opinions, their beliefs are just as valuable as anyone else’s and gives potential buyers a little more feedback.
 
I had a knifemaker freak out on me for liking some of his knives. What am I supposed to say to that?
 
Bladeandbarrel said:
Oh, I hear you loud and clear now!

remember, everyone's "kids" are always exceptional!
Click to expand...

Just remember that very maker is above average and their latest effort is their best.

Just keep repeating that with an occasional KUMBAYA tossed in and everything will be OK. ;)

orig.jpg


Try to avoid saying things on the forum such as,

"What the F#%k were you thinking when you bought/made that ugly piece of CR@P???" :eek: :foot: :barf:

P
 
How hostile people get when constructive criticism is given.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
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STeven,
It might be that some people seem like to throw bombs when they give "constructive criticism" and act like they are the most knowledgeable collectors on the internet.
Jim Treacy
 
STeven,

You and I have an interesting history, so the subtle changes it your
posts (which I follow religiously) are more and more evident. AND I like
what I see!

Excuse me for being a little personal but it happened to me too, many
years ago after I got married to the most wonderful woman in the world:
She made out of me a nicer, and among many other things, a more
forgiving and understanding human being - and am I glad to admit this..... :)

And yes, I think that as of lately people sometimes tend to react with too
short a fuse, like something that often happens when a word or a sentence
in an email is misunderstood.
We are here to show what we have or have created and to get the reaction
of others. I believe both good and not-so good criticism are given honestly
and should be taken as such...


All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
jjtjr said:
STeven,
It might be that some people seem like to throw bombs when they give "constructive criticism" and act like they are the most knowledgeable collectors on the internet.
Jim Treacy
Click to expand...

Jim, if that is directed specifically at me, than how would you change it?
 
Kohai999 said:
How hostile people get when constructive criticism is given.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

I think it's just human nature. Humans don't like change. When you give someone constructive criticism, they realize they need to change, but instead of taking it like a man, owning it, and changing, they go into denial, and lash out.
That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it. :D
 
ddd said:
And yes, I think that as of lately people sometimes tend to react with too
short a fuse, like something that often happens when a word or a sentence
in an email is misunderstood.
We are here to show what we have or have created and to get the reaction
of others. I believe both good and not-so good criticism are given honestly
and should be taken as such...


All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
Click to expand...

That is a big part of what I see, David....there will always be some degree of contention and disagreement....but it doesn't have to be an escalated conflict....I have seen makers like SAR, Snody, and even Lovett, sometimes, as an example, turn the possibility of conflict into a viable and vibrant discussion with learning and give-and-take on both sides.

I'll own that I come across as a douche from time-to-time.;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
t....but it doesn't have to be an escalated conflict.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Escalated conflicts, we, down here in Israel, have enough of them.... Maybe
that is one of the reasons I am so disturbed when they happen here too...

All the best,
David (ddd)
 
Kohai999 said:
How hostile people get when constructive criticism is given.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen that recently but maybe I'm not paying attention? Wouldn't be the first time...

One thing I think we have to be careful about with criticism is understanding the artist's intent, balancing that against our own biases, and providing feedback that is as objective as possible. I'm just a newbie but I've already developed some pretty strong opinions. I generally despise mammoth tooth and mosaic damascus, for example. But I can still appreciate a knife that utilizes one (or both) of these materials. Particularly if a knife succeeds in execution despite them. ;) :thumbup:

I recently finished a knife under Tai Goo's patient guidance and posted it for folks to see. I'm well aware of the many flaws in execution (on my part), design, etc. Still, I posted it for a reaction, good or bad. I got some good feedback and even made a change based on one fellow's suggestion. Hopefully my next knife will be better. Or maybe the one after that--after all I won't have Tai around to fix my foolish mistakes when it comes to the forging work.

I dunno, I figure if you can't take criticism you shouldn't be putting your efforts out for the world to see. I know that *I* will always be a student, and learning, and that everyone has an opinion.

Don't stop being blunt and true to your point of view, STeven. I hope you chime in with some suggestions the next time I post a knife of my own make up here. :thumbup:
 
Jim, if that is directed specifically at me, than how would you change it
Click to expand...

STeven,
I don't think that everyone who posts pictures or their knives is looking for "constuctive criticism". They just want to share pictures of their knives.

I wouldn't reply negatively unless a person asked for opinions. If I saw a knife posted that I didn't like, I would just not respond.

I am old enought to know that people don't change.

Jim Treacy
 
I think that this is a good thread STeven. Since I have been on I have seen this stuff happen. I think people like to think that they have arrived and that they don't need to grow or keep learning. To me I always need to keep learning. I have also seen and read people blow a lot of smoke on knives that just don't work. If someone puts a knife for viewing not all will like it. That should be okay.
 
Kohai999 said:
How hostile people get when constructive criticism is given.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

IMO, we are lacking in constructive criticism here. Usually, if there is any it's initiated by STeven and then others will chime in. There was a very good example just recently. I'm guilty of this too at times as I will just not comment or try to find something positive to post about the piece. When it would be more productive to very nicely point out the condition or feature.

IMO STeven, you can be a little blunt at times, but that's just your nature in being very direct in your communication. Some probably perceive it as your being hostile.

IMO, we also take it to the other extreme. I believe Les referred to it as the "love fest" towards some makers. It's when certain makers who have a large following post a knife that's average, however immediately there's those who see it as the "best ever", and each after is the "best ever". When first coming here I thought perhaps I just don't know what makes a great knife, but now I realize at times it's just the "emperors new clothes syndrome".

Good thread STeven glad you brought this touchy subject up.
 
jjtjr said:
STeven,
I don't think that everyone who posts pictures or their knives is looking for "constuctive criticism". They just want to share pictures of their knives.

I wouldn't reply negatively unless a person asked for opinions. If I saw a knife posted that I didn't like, I would just not respond.

I am old enought to know that people don't change.

Jim Treacy
Click to expand...

If I were king of the world, tell you what I'd do, I'd make it so that the custom knife forum was a place for custom knife discussion. Posting a knife here would come with the expectation that it would be discussed - with participants expressing what they like and don't like about the knife in question.

If a participant just wanted to post a pic of a knife to show everyone and collect a healthy round of high-fives, the gallery would be for that.

I don't offer a lot of constructive criticism on-line - I do so quite a bit more off-line. I have had makers ask for my candid opinion on construction, materials, design and pricing of their knives and I have given it. The "problem" on the forums, as Jim correctly points out, is that not every maker and for sure not every collector who posts a knife is looking for meaningful feedback.

Roger
 
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