What knives do Special Forces use?

Let me put it another way; do you have any reason to doubt that particular statement from that particular company (that SEAL units might use MISSION knives)?

I asked about general deployment knives during an old conversation (circa 2000-2003?) with one of my DTD fraternity brothers who did some hard work in Iraq. Disclaimer: I hate when people bring up "my spec ops friend" without references so here are a few:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/aaron-reed/53/967/675?_mSplash=1
http://home.nra.org/pdf/thirdcenturynra_aaronreed_aug13.pdf

- "Stainless knives, dark coatings...folder or fixed but usually just big enough to use with gloves" (Mission's fixed blades typically use A2 steel iirc)
- "serrated is good...we cut more rope, tubing, BDUs, and zipcuffs than anything"
- "long narrow stabbing knives are best for sentries (rarely used)...slashing throats gurgles a lot, no one does that...clavicle-to-heart works best...but a supressed wet-can MP-5 is better"
- "big knives and tomahawks are for rookies" - best for MP's urban patrol and intimidation
- And he loved multi tools.
 
I once read a book by a former SEAL sniper who served in the 1980s and 1990s (can't remember his name or the book's name) and throughout his entire career he only carried a small Victorinox. By the end of a few deployments it was cracked, so he traded a Finish soldier for a pair of nice winter boots....and the soldier thought he got the better end of the deal! When he returned home, he bought another one.

In "Amercian Sniper", SEAL Chris Kyle mentions that he received a Microtech on completion of BUD/S and that he carried various Emerson and Benchmade fixed blades on deployments.
 
One of the Medics for 5th SFG I knew when I was ('95-"99) in usually took along a couple of KaBars on deployments. He was one of the few knife-nuts I met while in. He had a Randall he'd been awarded, and a couple of other customs. Reason he usually took KaBars along on deployments was for trade/barter reasons. It's a very recognized U.S. Military knife and he'd usually score something real cool in return.
 
I asked about general deployment knives during an old conversation (circa 2000-2003?) with one of my DTD fraternity brothers who did some hard work in Iraq. Disclaimer: I hate when people bring up "my spec ops friend" without references so here are a few:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/aaron-reed/53/967/675?_mSplash=1
http://home.nra.org/pdf/thirdcenturynra_aaronreed_aug13.pdf

- "Stainless knives, dark coatings...folder or fixed but usually just big enough to use with gloves" (Mission's fixed blades typically use A2 steel iirc)- "serrated is good...we cut more rope, tubing, BDUs, and zipcuffs than anything"
- "long narrow stabbing knives are best for sentries (rarely used)...slashing throats gurgles a lot, no one does that...clavicle-to-heart works best...but a supressed wet-can MP-5 is better"
- "big knives and tomahawks are for rookies" - best for MP's urban patrol and intimidation
- And he loved multi tools.

MISSION makes titanium knives - sort of a huge part of their marketing. The Company also has a range of steel knives (A2).
You could go and check their site in order to learn more.

EDIT: Oooops, dealer link.
 
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Back in the OLD days circa, you could actually tell what some of the guys at Bragg bought by going out on Bragg Blvd to places like Cumberland Knife and Gun Works and looking in their display case. This was back in the day when Randall had more dealers like the Acorn in Tennessee, Stoddards in Boston, a number of sporting goods stores and gun shops in Florida and CKGW appeared to be fairly big one. They had a multi layer glass display counter of just knives and Randalls took up one fair sized section of it. The other knives I remember there were the old school high quailty Gerbers and of course, Bucks.
 
BladeScout - I didn't know that; however, aside from non-magnetic and corrosion resistance, most evidence points to one of two options for titanium blades:

- sharp, but not durable
- not very sharp, but durable

A tool, not a weapon.

If it were the best option I have to believe every maker would use it. However, it seems rather limited in production knife blades.
 
Not a weapon??? What did Rambo do? He was Special Ops, right? You mean Hollywood lies to us????

Go to a surplus store to see what guys carry. Primarily the used section is full of...... Gerber MP600, and a weird variety of folders, followed by KABAR and Ontario ASEK knives.

Makes sense that they all probably carry the same stuff.

Only common thread with most knives at all of the stores: black finish. No shiny, polished, pretty knives. Just worn, dirty, mostly dull or poorly sharpened. Used as tools, not trophies.
 
BladeScout - I didn't know that; however, aside from non-magnetic and corrosion resistance, most evidence points to one of two options for titanium blades:

- sharp, but not durable
- not very sharp, but durable

A tool, not a weapon.

If it were the best option I have to believe every maker would use it. However, it seems rather limited in production knife blades.

I understood as much (that you werent aware of the MISSION titanium range).

- sharp, but not durable
- not very sharp, but durable

Durable, but not durable!?

A tool, not a weapon.
Sort of the point of titanium and the epitome of the MISSION blades; that they are supposed to work as a very strong tool for guys who who needs a light weight tool which is impervious to the elements and which will work for EOD work (amongst other tasks)..., as can be gleaned from the knife site.

Advantages as per the MISSION site:

Corrosion Resistance – Mission’s titanium is corrosion proof in all naturally occurring environments. The MPK12-Ti knife was soaked in seawater for over four years without a hint of corrosion. We clean these blades in concentrated Hydrochloric acid.

Weight – Mission’s titanium is 40%-50% lighter than steel.

Heat and Cold Stability – Mission’s titanium is 800 degrees F more thermally stable than steel. Its thermal range is from -100 to over + 700 degrees F. It will not break in subzero weather; whereas, steel can shatter at -65 degrees F and ceramics are brittle at room temperatures.

Wear/Abrasion Resistance – Mission’s titanium is a self-healing metal that forms a titanium oxide ceramic skin over itself when scratched and has 5 times the abrasion resistance of steel. This gives it the ability retain an edge and resist being eroded by contact with outside materials such as dirt, sand, ice, mud, nylon webbing, rope, etc.

Superior Ductility (Percent Elongation) - The deformation that results from the application of a tensile force, and is calculated as the change in length divided by the original length. This is usually measured over a 5cm gauge length. The higher the number the better the ductility. The Navy Seals have been unable to break the titanium MPK12-Ti in almost twenty years of service. This is due to the 12% elongation, coupled with toughness and flexibility under load. It is the alloy of choice for jet landing gear.

Toughness – Mission’s titanium is tough at both high and low temperatures. Toughness is the relative resistance of the metal to breaking, cracking or chipping under impact or stress. Think of it as the opposite of brittleness. It should be noted that toughness and wear resistance are inversely proportional.

Flexibility – Mission’s titanium may be flexed or bowed repeatedly without undergoing rupture. It has 1/2 of the modulus of steel; therefore, it will bend at least twice as far before breaking.

Non-Poisonous – Mission’s titanium is non-poisonous and biologically inert. It is used as human replacement joints.

Strength-to-Weight Ratio – Mission’s titanium has superior strength-to-weight ratios when compared to either steel or ceramic. It is the alloy of choice for aircraft.

Non Magnetic – Mission’s titanium is magnetically inert, and is used by the Navy Seals and Explosive Ordinance Disposal units (EOD) to defuse magnetically triggered mines.

....but the above company selling points and that its a tool for amongst other tasks, underwater EOD work, you could have read on the company website yourself;)

If it were the best option I have to believe every maker would use it.
No. Most knifemakers cant work the right grade of ti. Titanium is not just titanium. There are different grades. When ever a ti knife comes along on the forums, it most often wont be BETA ti.

I have no problem per se with the stories floating around the web, that titanium is useless as a material for a working knife, thats its difficult to sharpen and that it wont hold an edge.
So many people believe this and stories about how awful titanium knives are, have been repeated so many times, that a huge amount of people firmly believe it is so.

There are reasons for that.

Ti knives became a fad at some point.
Loads of knifemakers make some kind of titanium knife or other.
Very few (if any company other than MISSION) make their knives out of BETA ti.
BETA ti is extremely hard to work and few knifemakers are able to work it.
Its expensive to make knives out of BETA ti.
MISSION ti knives are out of BETA ti.
The supposedly atrocious capabilities of ti are now firmly believed.
Many of those believing the stories about ti have never handled a ti knife for extended periods let alone a BETA ti knife.
Many wont even take on a ti knife because of the above mentioned stories.

I have used BETA ti knives for different tasks through the years and they remain some of my favourite knives.
While a ti knife (BETA or not) will never be able to compete in the sharpness department with the keenest of steel knives, I have NO problem what so ever with achieving a working edge on my MISSION knives. My ti knives are just as easy to sharpen as my steel knives are (I use a dimond sharpener).

Ive used/use MISSION knives as camp knives, skinning knives, utility and kayaking knives.
I like that they are light weight when hiking. Put the knife in your pack or belt and forget about it until you need it.
They are very strong - at least as strong as steel, but with less weight.
My camp knife is incredibly strong. How strong is it? Well, here is one of those destruction tests, which doesnt really say anything about how I use my knives (I certainly dont use them like that, but it is confidence inspiring, that the tool you bring along is virtually indestructable).
Anyway, I must point out, that the video is made by someone with a vested interest in selling the knife. How ever, that doesnt detract an iota from how capable the knife is in the test. The knife can no doubt withstand exactly that amount of abuse (again, how much use that is for the ordinary knife owner is up to the indivudual to deceide):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoGucy0tws

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCqN7Fq6fYE

(MODS; I posted the vids for ti demonstration purposes, but I realize they might be on the line - delete at your leisure. Anybody can go to their favourite video host and punch in 'Mission Knives MPK-10 Ti Demo part II,' is vid links are deleted).

The ti knives are impervious to the elements - a huge advantage when hiking/hunting for extended periods of time and for kayaking in salt water, ti is an obvious advantage. Ive used several different SS knives for kayaking and they all developed some kind of rust even with rinsing and oiling after each use.
SS will eventually rust around salt water.
The ti knives just sits in my rig and only gets rinsed Down with the gear (vest etc.). They'll never rust.

My ti skinning knife will zip through several deer in one session with no noticable loss of edge to slow down skinning in any way.
Ive used several models of the MISSION knives for skinning.

BETA titanium knives work just fine....for me;)

Sorry for going on and on about these, but if there was any doubt, Im partial to these knives, so dont take my word for it - go use one for yourself and make up your own mind:D

Ti knives














 
I was but a humble infantryman, myself, back in the 70s. I carried three knives: a Kabar in a hard sheath on my web belt, a Gerber Mk II in a leather sheath taped to the shoulder harness of my web gear (cuz I was a bad-ass), and a stainless steel "demo" knife tucked into my boot top.

None of my Ranger acquaintances carried anything niftier than I did. While I read of people who carried a Randall or an Ek, I never knew one personally. And really, we didn't have any hard use tactical folders available then, not that I know of, anyway.

Oh, and I had one of those little single bladed Gerber folding knives, the one that looked like a mini Buck 110. Maybe a two inch blade. Razor sharp. Can't remember what happened to that one--probably stolen.
 
Frat and foremost, I appreciate this discussion.

An iPad makes quote, reply, repeat a bit labor intensive so here are my thoughts:

Durable, but not durable!?

*huge snip*

-I listed a durable and non-durable option.
- some metals, usually soft ones, may "self-heal" but it won't self sharpen
- titanium is a periodic element; there are no grades, but there may be alloys - I would be interested in composition of this "beta" version

I appreciate your passion. The costs seem rather prohibitive, but I can seem someone in the USAF having one.
 
Okaaay..., you lost me now.
I dont know why you listed durable or non-durable options for anything, but never mind (this could go on for long and the thread is about certain knives for certain kinds of soldiers).
I never mentioned that ti would self sharpen - the knife manufacturer mentions self-healing surface (which BTW might appeal to those who think the finish will look good longer, but which is actually not an advantage in the sharp department).
Im fully aware of what titanium is, thanks. I dont operate with grades - I merely repeat the term used by people who have forgotten more about knives than I'll ever know.
USAF knife; From the website: The MPS was designed with the input and suggestions of NAVAIR, U.S Marine Recon units, units of the Army’s Special Operations Command, and various United States Special Operations personnel. The MPS slides easily into existing pilot survival knife sheaths. Many back packers, hikers, mountain climbers and campers have commented that the MPS is the perfect utility knife.
I agree, that the MPS is a very nice utility/camping/hiking knife (see my pics of my MPS above). I (again) encourage you to check out the company website, as most of what we debated and many of the basic MISSION features, that I have mentioned ad nausem are listed there (Mission makes titanium knives et al) and hence redundant to mention here.

Just like visiting the knife site, a simple web search will tell you all you desire - in this case a search about Beta Ti;
Source one:
Titanium alloys are categorized as either alpha (α) alloys, beta (ß) alloys, or alpha+beta (α+ß) alloys.

Alpha is more resistant to breakage and is classified that way due to: alloys and temperature used to processes it.

Beta is more flexible and is classified by the alloys used and the temperature used to process it.

Alloys used in Alpha - tin and/or aluminum

Alloys used in Beta - vanadium, molybdenum, chromium and/or copper.

Source two:
Properties

Beta-titanium alloys exhibit the BCC allotropic form of titanium (called beta). Elements used in this alloy are one or more of the following other than titanium in varying amounts. These are molybdenum, vanadium, niobium, tantalum, zirconium, manganese, iron, chromium, cobalt, nickel, and copper.

The titanium alloys have excellent formability and can be easily welded.

Use

Beta-titanium alloy is nowadays largely utilized in the orthodontic field and was adopted for orthodontics use in the 1980s. This type of alloy replaced stainless steel for certain uses, as stainless steel had dominated orthodontics since the 1960s. It has strength/modulus of elasticity ratios almost twice those of 18-8 austenitic stainless steel, larger elastic deflections in springs, and reduced force per unit displacement 2.2 times below those of stainless steel appliances.

Source three (though its Wiki and should thus be checked against other sources, please note the use of the term 'GRADES':rolleyes:):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_alloy

Back to soldiers and what kind of knife those at 'the sharp end' use.:)
 
I have several friends in 5th group and the most common fixed blade those guys use is.......the $30 Glock knife.
 
I have several friends in 5th group and the most common fixed blade those guys use is.......the $30 Glock knife.


I wasn't SF, but for 20 years this was in or on my ruck everywhere I went. Bought it for ~$25 bucks in 1984 from a now long gone knife shop on VD drive just outside of Fort Benning. It has smashed, chopped, cut, and crushed its way through much of Asia and the South Pacific. Lots of hard use. If I were doing it over, I'd take it again.

Glock%2520Fixed%2520Blade.jpg
 
I wasn't SF, but for 20 years this was in or on my ruck everywhere I went. Bought it for ~$25 bucks in 1984 from a now long gone knife shop on VD drive just outside of Fort Benning. It has smashed, chopped, cut, and crushed its way through much Asia and the South Pacific. Lots of hard use. If I were doing it over, I'd take it again.
For a Glock field knife thats been used vigorously, it doesnt even look like its had suffered much damage to the handle or sheath. These usually get very ugly tear and Wear marks to the synthetic material (of course, ugly doesnt mean they wont work as intended).

Here is my old school Glock marked '78' - no sawback. Hardly used - mostly sheath marks and a few dings and scratches:

 
I see a wide range of stuff. From Wrinkler to Randall to SOG Dessert Dagger, even plain old Ka Bar. Sometimes they go in on a group buy, sometimes a unit will buy knives, though they just carry pretty much whatever they like. I will say this, the average length seems to be between 4 and 5 inches.
 
For a Glock field knife thats been used vigorously, it doesnt even look like its had suffered much damage to the handle or sheath. These usually get very ugly tear and Wear marks to the synthetic material (of course, ugly doesnt mean they wont work as intended).

Like I said it was in or on my ruck. Almost always in unless it just wouldn't fit. The sheath didn't suffer as it just sat there. The guard and finish on the blade is what suffered from use.
 
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