What knives do Special Forces use?

[JParanee]

Daniel Winkler has a big following these days

I know a few seals that are using his knives and hawks right now

 

[marcinek]

Not a huge fan of some of their strange tanto shaped knives myself, but a fan of some of their other offerings.

Yes, skepticism in regards to maketing from knife companies in general is a good thing.
We cant disagree on that.

Yes...but then you go and quote their marketing site at length as a defense of their blades.

I understand you like their knives, that's cool. I don't understand how you liking them is evidence that Special Forces uses them.

 

[The1trueBeavis]

I always thought the big difference between an infantry load out and a "spec ops" load out was that an infantry man carried what was given to him and a spec ops guy carried what ever he wanted. I think this came about so spec ops guys could really fix their load out and pick what they wanted for mission specific operations. So it would be stupid for them all to carry the same knife/tool, right?

 

[Arfropubes]

I am Dark Delta spec 4 opsec !0 and we all exclusively carry smatchets. when you need to de-animate op 4 accept nothing else !

 

[bpeezer]

Flexibility – Mission’s titanium may be flexed or bowed repeatedly without undergoing rupture. It has 1/2 of the modulus of steel; therefore, it will bend at least twice as far before breaking.

I'm sorry, but that is not necessarily what it means. The modulus of elasticity (or Young's Modulus) is most easily described as the slope of the linear elastic region of the stress-strain curve. The modulus has NOTHING to do with how far a material can bend before breaking. Two materials can (hypothetically) have exactly the same modulus of elasticity but have completely different failure conditions.

So, what does it mean if Mission's knives have half the modulus of elasticity of comparable steel? It simply means that during elastic deformation, it will be twice as easy to bend the titanium as it is to bend steel. Put another way, if you apply the same force to the steel and titanium, the titanium will deform twice as much (as long as the force applied does not exceed the yield strength of either material).

You have to look at the yield strength to see when plastic deformation occurs, because that will (or should) mark the failure condition of a knife or tool.

 

[leghog]

I am Dark Delta spec 4 opsec !0 and we all exclusively carry smatchets..........

........clinched between our teeth

 

[BladeScout]

Like I said it was in or on my ruck. Almost always in unless it just wouldn't fit. The sheath didn't suffer as it just sat there. The guard and finish on the blade is what suffered from use.

Yep, not much finish left on the blade.

 

[Sidehill Gouger]

One thing I learned early on in military is the wiz bangs that loudly declare knives are useless weight are always the first to say "hey, let me borrow your knife a minute!" Then they proceed to chop rocks and cut wire before handing it back to you with a chipped edge. Multi tools are great tools but sorry knives.

 

[BladeScout]

Yes...but then you go and quote their marketing site at length as a defense of their blades.

I understand you like their knives, that's cool. I don't understand how you liking them is evidence that Special Forces uses them.

I dont think you paid attention, marciebaby

There have been the odd tanto and a chopper, that I dont particulaly care about, as I mentioned.

That how ever doesnt mean, that I dont care for some of their other knives!! Some of their other knives works fine for me. Im just not that into tanto style blades or huge choppers. Why do I even have to point this out - its evident from what I wrote.

I 'then quote their marketing' - yes, and? As above, I wont buy some of their knives - others I like and buy. Whats not to understand?

All marketing (and statements from politicians, lawyers et al) should be viwed with skeptecism.

I actually have the knives, I posts pics of here and dont need to buy into any marketing - empirical evidence tells me, that they work for me.

Another forum member obviously didnt know about the website/their ti knives. I quoted from the site, since he obviously didnt visit it.

 

[BladeScout]

I'm sorry, but that is not necessarily what it means. The modulus of elasticity (or Young's Modulus) is most easily described as the slope of the linear elastic region of the stress-strain curve. The modulus has NOTHING to do with how far a material can bend before breaking. Two materials can (hypothetically) have exactly the same modulus of elasticity but have completely different failure conditions.

So, what does it mean if Mission's knives have half the modulus of elasticity of comparable steel? It simply means that during elastic deformation, it will be twice as easy to bend the titanium as it is to bend steel. Put another way, if you apply the same force to the steel and titanium, the titanium will deform twice as much (as long as the force applied does not exceed the yield strength of either material).

You have to look at the yield strength to see when plastic deformation occurs, because that will (or should) mark the failure condition of a knife or tool.

No need to be sorry at all.
Ive no problem with your post.
As I stated, I quoted from the website (and maybe this is one of those times, were one has to look twice at marketing), so you'll have to take it up with MISSION

 

[bpeezer]

No need to be sorry at all.
Ive no problem with your post.
As I stated, I quoted from the website (and maybe this is one of those times, were one has to look twice at marketing), so you'll have to take it up with MISSION

Thanks, I thought for a long time before posting it because I thought you might be offended I'd really be interested in testing some of their material properties though!

 

[marcinek]

I actually have the knives, I posts pics of here and dont need to buy into any marketing - empirical evidence tells me, that they work for me.

Another forum member obviously didnt know about the website/their ti knives. I quoted from the site, since he obviously didnt visit it.

That's swell. Glad you like them. Still not seeing how that establishes that Special Forces uses them. That was the OP's query.

(And again, if we are supposed to be skeptical of advertising claims of a manufacturer, why cite their advertising claims?)

 

[BladeScout]

That's swell. Glad you like them. Still not seeing how that establishes that Special Forces uses them. That was the OP's query.

(And again, if we are supposed to be skeptical of advertising claims of a manufacturer, why cite their advertising claims?)

Ohh dear, this could go on for a while (pls dont let it go on for too long)

You are quite right; its about a certain type of soldier and knives used - that was the OP's query.
You how ever took the initiative to cast doubt on a company and you keep yammering on about it I doubt that was the OP's intention. No offence.

I doubt anybody else cares much in this instance. I know, that I like the knives for what they are. I'd much rather see some more knives.
Are you sure, you are not confusing MISSION with some burger joint.

Honestly, I feel like Ive suddenly been transmogriffed to W&C where you talk trash about a knifemaker lying about his military service.
Are you sure, you have the right Company?

Honestly, I'm always a little dubious of knife companies' claims that "Special Forces" uses their knives.

 

[J_Curd]

Okaaay..., you lost me now.
I dont know why you listed durable or non-durable options for anything, but never mind.

*SNIP*

Im fully aware of what titanium is, thanks. I dont operate with grades - I merely repeat the term used by people who have forgotten more about knives than I'll ever know.

*SNIP*

Titanium alloys are categorized as either alpha (&#945 alloys, beta (ß) alloys, or alpha+beta (α+ß) alloys.

Alpha is more resistant to breakage and is classified that way due to: alloys and temperature used to processes it.

Beta is more flexible and is classified by the alloys used and the temperature used to process it.

Alloys used in Alpha - tin and/or aluminum

Alloys used in Beta - vanadium, molybdenum, chromium and/or copper.

Source two:
Properties

Beta-titanium alloys exhibit the BCC allotropic form of titanium (called beta). Elements used in this alloy are one or more of the following other than titanium in varying amounts. These are molybdenum, vanadium, niobium, tantalum, zirconium, manganese, iron, chromium, cobalt, nickel, and copper.

The titanium alloys have excellent formability and can be easily welded.

Use

Beta-titanium alloy is nowadays largely utilized in the orthodontic field and was adopted for orthodontics use in the 1980s. This type of alloy replaced stainless steel for certain uses, as stainless steel had dominated orthodontics since the 1960s. It has strength/modulus of elasticity ratios almost twice those of 18-8 austenitic stainless steel, larger elastic deflections in springs, and reduced force per unit displacement 2.2 times below those of stainless steel appliances.

Sorry if I lost you, but you not only figured it out, but explained it way better than I did!

 

[marcinek]

Ohh dear, this could go on for a while (pls dont let it go on for too long)

You are quite right; its about a certain type of soldier and knives used - that was the OP's query.
You how ever took the initiative to cast doubt on a company and you keep yammering on about it I doubt that was the OP's intention. No offence.

I doubt anybody else cares much in this instance. I know, that I like the knives for what they are. I'd much rather see some more knives.
Are you sure, you are not confusing MISSION with some burger joint.

Honestly, I feel like Ive suddenly been transmogriffed to W&C where you talk trash about a knifemaker lying about his military service.
Are you sure, you have the right Company?

Who's casting doubt on Mission specifically? When did I do that?

I cast doubt on claims made in knife manufacturers' ad copy...including, but not limited to, Mission.

The statement from Mission Knives that SEALs use Mission Knives? My doubt on that one does not stem from anything Mission-specific. (That's not to say Mission doesn't do some wacky stuff, but that's entirely off topic.)

My doubt comes from knowing that company X supplying or giving knives to Special Forces is not the same thing as Special Forces using knives from company X.

And from having a healthy doubt about the content of advertising.

As for as your thinly veiled digs at Strider and Mick Strider...you are the one going off topic and trashing them.

Again, in a thread about "What Knives Do Special Forces Use?"

you claimed

SEAL units use - amongst other knives, Im sure - MISSION knives.
http://www.missionknives.com/

based on a manufacturer'd ad copy and the fact that you like them.

We have both agreed that ad copy should be taken with a grain of salt.

Yes, skepticism in regards to maketing from knife companies in general is a good thing.
We cant disagree on that.

Which leaves the fact that you like them as your only evidence than Special Forces might use them.

And unless you are Special Forces, I don't see how that argument holds water.

 

[L2bravo]

Spec ops guys are among the best logistically supported guys on the planet. The team that goes in is only the tip of the iceberg. Behind them is a legion of support staff making sure things go down without a hitch. Transport, supplies, recon, medical, command etc etc. The mission is in and out quickly with surgical precision, not living in a jungle for 6 months with no support. Though I suppose there are many flavors of special operations.

Using a knife often entails some level of improvising a solution. Improvising means you've have done goof'ed somewhere along the line in your mission prep, I don't really see it happening. They'll have their gear sorted out so they have the right tool for whatever job they are doing. As for "taking people out with a knife", well I don't really see that as a realistic thing to come up on a mission. There are better ways. Building big fires for smores is probably out too.

So yeah, they probably carry whatever they like, or just leave it at home like most people do.

I seem to disagree with you. Do you remeber the Seal Team 6 mission, where there were 2 couples on the boat? On of the guys was killed, and a few of the pirates were dead from infighting. The Seals killed a few of the guys, "One was killed with a knife", was pretty much advertised everywhere. Why that Seal chose that? I have no clue, but it most likely happened. Here is a link.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...oses-knife-fight-us-navy-seal-today-dies.html

 

[cards94]

I seem to disagree with you. Do you remeber the Seal Team 6 mission, where there were 2 couples on the boat? On of the guys was killed, and a few of the pirates were dead from infighting. The Seals killed a few of the guys, "One was killed with a knife", was pretty much advertised everywhere. Why that Seal chose that? I have no clue, but it most likely happened. Here is a link.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...oses-knife-fight-us-navy-seal-today-dies.html

hard to believe a seal would carry anything from cold steel.

 

[B.F.U]

hard to believe a seal would carry anything from cold steel.

Why do you say that? Honestly curious.

 

[marcinek]

Why do you say that? Honestly curious.

Oh...he knows all about Special Ops and what they use. Remember, before in this thread he told us

a folding knife is a broken knife in special ops.

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if someone in Special Ops used a CS fixed blade. Inexpensive, easily available, pretty sturdy. Probably available on a base.

 

[lambertiana]

I have a friend who served in the Green Berets. He said that they could get any weapon they wanted, issued from their armory. Their armory could supply them with whatever small arms they wanted, you name it, not just limited to US-made/issued arms.

He said that for knives they had a variety, with the SOG Seal Pup being one of the more popular fixed blades.