What knives do you find overrated?

[PURPLEDC]

In my experience this is untrue. It is precisely because of "the incredibly precise demands on each part being exactly the right dimensions to within a tiny fraction of a millimeter" that a Sebenza goes back together exactly the way it was before disassembly, and still maintains those exacting tolerances. That is the benefit it actually imparts to the end user.

There is enough wiggle room in a sebenza that the lockup can be effected by placing bias to the scales when tightening the screws. Great knives and great quality but they arent so tight that they go back together identically as they did before. i think there press fit parts are impressive but i cant deny that most of those impressive stats will never translate into a true benefit to the end user.

 

[PURPLEDC]

When you took apart your $100 Benchmade you voided your warranty.

From Benchmades website:

"Do not disassemble your knife. Do not sharpen your knife on a power grinding wheel. Any of these acts will void your Warranty. MINIMUM CHARGE TO REASSEMBLE A KNIFE WHEN THE WARRANTY HAS BEEN VOIDED IS $20 PLUS PARTS."

Fortunately you can take apart a Sebenza and put it back together as many times as you would like and still enjoy the benefits of being under warranty.

;-)

In nearly all cases your warranty isnt bouded just because of disassembly. Most manufacturers the policy reads like that but they will usually honor it as long as your taking it apart didnt lead to the problems it may have. I have sent in knives for warranty work to nearly all the major companies sans cold steel and they were all disassembled at some point. The point is benchmade doesnt want you ripping apart an infidel and sending a bag of parts with half of it missing and expecintg them to do it for free. Its not like these companies have a secret build process or factory seal they know is broken once the knife is taken apart.

 

[stabman]

Its not like these companies have a secret build process or factory seal they know is broken once the knife is taken apart.

It is easy to tell when the screws have been removed.
Tool marks will only show in one direction when new screws have been inserted; when they have been removed, the marks show for both directions.

 

[slorenzo]

In nearly all cases your warranty isnt bouded just because of disassembly. Most manufacturers the policy reads like that but they will usually honor it as long as your taking it apart didnt lead to the problems it may have. I have sent in knives for warranty work to nearly all the major companies sans cold steel and they were all disassembled at some point. The point is benchmade doesnt want you ripping apart an infidel and sending a bag of parts with half of it missing and expecintg them to do it for free. Its not like these companies have a secret build process or factory seal they know is broken once the knife is taken apart.

Well asdf just confessed to it on here so his warranty is void

But all joking aside thanks for the info. Benchmade does discourage taking a knife apart while CRK does not discourage it. I am not familiar with the particulars of Benchmade's policy as I have never sent a Benchmade in for service, I was just going by what they openly state. However, I have requested replacement parts and they were great to deal with and sent them free of charge.

As a side note, I have sent in a CRK in pieces due to pinched washers and they brought it back to new. I am not aware of any other production manufacturer that will recondition their knives free of charge and accept a box of parts without hesitation.

If there is one that offers equal or superior service please let me know!

 

[slorenzo]

You have to make it right.

http://geekmachine.hubpages.com/hub/movie-theater-popcorn-secrets

So that's what they put in theater popcorn! Ive been doing it all wrong.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

The part where you say "those kind of assembly tolerances are gone the second you disassemble the knife...."

Assembly tolerances was my shorthand for tolerances in things like screw tension, basically how precisely the knife is put together rather than how precisely the pieces are cut. That kind of tolerance is completely gone once you take something apart.

 

[brancron]

Assembly tolerances was my shorthand for tolerances in things like screw tension, basically how precisely the knife is put together rather than how precisely the pieces are cut. That kind of tolerance is completely gone once you take something apart.

I don't know what screw tension or other "assembly tolerances" have to do with anything. With a Sebenza, because of the pivot bushing, you just screw everything down tight and it's back to exactly how it was before you disassembled it. This is because of how precisely the pieces are cut.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I don't know what screw tension or other "assembly tolerances" have to do with anything. With a Sebenza, because of the pivot bushing, you just screw everything down tight and it's back to exactly how it was before you disassembled it. This is because of how precisely the pieces are cut.

As I said above, that may be the advantage of the tight tolerances CRK is famous for. Personally, I've never noticed any performance difference or notable change in any of the knives I've disassembled so it's not a big selling point for me,. CRK makes some amazingly nice knives, but I still don't really understand why, as an end user, I would pay a premium for their tolerances when the tolerances on the knives I own are more than good enough.

To be completely clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with anyone buying CRK knives and enjoying them fully.

 

[Krissig12]

As I said above, that may be the advantage of the tight tolerances CRK is famous for. Personally, I've never noticed any performance difference or notable change in any of the knives I've disassembled so it's not a big selling point for me,. CRK makes some amazingly nice knives, but I still don't really understand why, as an end user, I would pay a premium for their tolerances when the tolerances on the knives I own are more than good enough.

To be completely clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with anyone buying CRK knives and enjoying them fully.

See this is why the sebenza does not belong in this discussion.

You not noticing or caring about the extra tolerences doesn't make the knife overrated, even to you. It' IS however overpriced to you because it doesn't fit into your idea of value. And that's fine. Many DO value the extra tolerences so the knife is not overpriced in their minds. That's all there is to it. "Overrated" is something else entirely. It refers to a widespread public perception of quality that you do not believe is actually there. Since you have admitted multiple times that the sebenza is a fine knife and in no way lower quality than it is made out to be, "overrated" cannot possibly be used to describe it. Overpriced (in your opinion) maybe, but not overrated.

 

[tom700]

mine would go to the Kershaw/Emerson colab. its cool I guess if you cant afford a real emerson but that's really about all its good for in my opinion

 

[Insipid Moniker]

See this is why the sebenza does not belong in this discussion.

You not noticing or caring about the extra tolerences doesn't make the knife overrated, even to you. It' IS however overpriced to you because it doesn't fit into your idea of value. And that's fine. Many DO value the extra tolerences so the knife is not overpriced in their minds. That's all there is to it. "Overrated" is something else entirely. It refers to a widespread public perception of quality that you do not believe is actually there. Since you have admitted multiple times that the sebenza is a fine knife and in no way lower quality than it is made out to be, "overrated" cannot possibly be used to describe it. Overpriced (in your opinion) maybe, but not overrated.

I actually don't think it's overrated or overpriced. As I said before, I hesitate to label any well made knife overrated as it may just not fit my needs. As for overpriced, not at all. I understand exactly where the cost comes from and I honestly don't know if it would be possible to make a knife with those tolerances and materials that cost less.

I'm not bashing the 'Benza, just participating in an interesting derail.

 

[Sikael]

I didn't want to comment again but since many people are discussing the Sebenza-

How are you making sure that the knife is "coming back together exactly the same way"? Do your other knives not go back together the "same way"? I own a $100 Benchmade liner lock that goes back together the exact same way. I've owned handmade folders made over 20 years ago, with no help from numerical control machines, that went back together the exact same way. Zero play, zero flex, zero gaps. No change in how the operation feels. What's your metric for reassembling the "same way", and how are you testing for it? If there's a 1/1000th difference will you or will you not be able to notice? If there's a 1/1000th difference will it matter to any great degree?

Could you also name some of the knives you claim require a lot of "mucking around to work properly again"? I really can't see what can go especially wrong in a modern folder where the pivot screw, stop pin, and standoffs/backspacer ensure correct alignment of the components on reassembly.

How do I know it went back together the same way... god, what a boring thing to take issue with. Because it opened and closed with a nice, hydraulic feel beforehand, and it had exactly the same feel afterward. I don't need to break out the calipers. The tolerances are visibly tighter on the Sebenza than most less-expensive production knives, and I don't know what to tell you if you want to dispute that; it's not a judgement, it's an observation.

But I've had production knives that required multiple loosenings and partial disassemblies in order to fix centering, correct blade-play that wasn't there before-hand, and try to get the action to a suitable spot. In other cases, these issues were there to begin with; after making a useless attempt to fix a defective knife and voiding the warranty, I won't bother trying to fix a knife that arrives with problems again... that's what returns are for. No point voiding the warranty.

I've got no names to give you. There's been too much shit-talking already. Crow over that if you like, or let it lay. Your call. Considering the length of the list you unfurled specifying knives that failed to meet your expectations, I'm kind of surprised you're defending the quality of the 'modern folder'...

Griptilian
Microtech Nemesis
Sebenza 21
Deryk Munroe customs
ZT 0888, 0777
John Gray customs
Cold Steel fixed blades
TAD Dauntless
Tim Galyean customs
ESEE Izula
Matt Cucchiara customs
Graham Midtech razel
Burchtree midtechs
Marfione custom DOCs, Socom Bravos and Whalesharks
Southard midtechs
Spyderco Paramilitary-2, Southard, Rubicon
Boker-Marlowe Bullpup
Jeremy Marsh's Columbian folder
Peter Carey 50/50s
Rick Hinderer customs
Emerson Sheepdog, Iron Dragon, CQC-10
Ramon Chaves customs
Brad Blount customs
Jason Stout customs
Fellhoelter Friction Folder
Terzuola/GTC collaboration folders
Lee Williams customs
Bose slipjoints
Todd Begg midtechs
Shiva Ki fixed blades
Strider GB, AR, SLCC
Rexford customs
Older Terzuola folders
Michael Raymond customs
Curtiss knives

The difference between those knives and the Sebenza, in terms of tolerances, was obvious, IMO. The difference with reassembly was the ease of it. Adjusting the Sebenza to get the action right was not a matter of guesswork; centering is never off, and it pulls together square and true without special effort. As I mentioned, others haven't been that simple. They weren't complicated -- the part count on the Seb 25 is around 15, compared to 20-23 -- they just weren't as precise. If you think I'm making a crazy claim -- whatever. I would have thought from your sig-line you liked the Sebenza... maybe you do. Maybe you're playing devil's advocate, as a fearless defender of truth. Keep fighting the good fight, I guess.

Your last line offers the key to the problem:

I really can't see what can go especially wrong in a modern folder where the pivot screw, stop pin, and standoffs/backspacer ensure correct alignment of the components on reassembly...

On some modern folders, they don't ensure correct alignment.

 

[Krissig12]

I actually don't think it's overrated or overpriced. As I said before, I hesitate to label any well made knife overrated as it may just not fit my needs. As for overpriced, not at all. I understand exactly where the cost comes from and I honestly don't know if it would be possible to make a knife with those tolerances and materials that cost less.

I'm not bashing the 'Benza, just participating in an interesting derail.

Trust me, we're on the same page here.

You said in previous posts that you didn't think the extra tolerences were worth it, and by extension that means you would not pay more money just because of the increased tolerences. So by definition you think the knife is overpriced. Simple as that. You don't have to argue everything, it's perfectly acceptable to think a certain knife is not a good value but at the same time understand that it may be viewed differently by others. I know you aren't bashing the sebenza.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Trust me, we're on the same page here.

You said in previous posts that you didn't think the extra tolerences were worth it, and by extension that means you would not pay more money just because of the increased tolerences. So by definition you think the knife is overpriced. Simple as that. You don't have to argue everything, it's perfectly acceptable to think a certain knife is not a good value but at the same time understand that it may be viewed differently by others. I know you aren't bashing the sebenza.

Being a good value and being overpriced are, in my mind at least, completely seperate issues. I can see a knife with expensive inlays and point out that it's a good price for the knife, while still maintaining it's a terrible value proposition in that the inlays add nothing practical to the knife. Value, for me, hinges on performance. I think the Sebenza is a poor value as it doesn't seem to do anything that much better than much less expensive offerings.

To put it another way, you could buy a Jackson Pollack painting for a great price and I'd applaud you for it, but I wouldn't want to hang it in my living room.

 

[Krissig12]

Being a good value and being overpriced are, in my mind at least, completely seperate issues. I can see a knife with expensive inlays and point out that it's a good price for the knife, while still maintaining it's a terrible value proposition in that the inlays add nothing practical to the knife. Value, for me, hinges on performance. I think the Sebenza is a poor value as it doesn't seem to do anything that much better than much less expensive offerings.

To put it another way, you could buy a Jackson Pollack painting for a great price and I'd applaud you for it, but I wouldn't want to hang it in my living room.

I get you. But again we're on the same page, I just simplified it down a bit too much. My point was that you said that you wouldnt buy the sebenza at the price it costs, and that I had no problem with that because you obviously are not just a basher who doesn't accept that others would. What I was trying to say is that the term "overrated" did not fit in the discussion because it was not the performance of the knife itself that was lacking in your opinion, but the performance at the price it costs. I don't care what you want to call it, the fact that you won't pay the price of the knife means that to you it is an overpriced knife. Simple economics. However, there are also other factors such as aesthetics that might lead you to not buy it, but since you made no mention of that being a reason you don't personally like the knife, I only had price to go by.

 

[Ray5118]

For me it's the Kershaw Cryo. It's too heavy for what you get, the speed safe breaks too often for me and mine has blade play that I can't for the life of me get rid of.

Also lets remember that everyone is entitled to their own opinions

Well after 10 pages of this
Aren't you glad you asked this question?

 

[Sikael]

Well after 10 pages of this
Aren't you glad you asked this question?

It is a forum... better than 10 pages of consensus. What a terrible thought.

 

[asdf12345]

I've voided warranties on knives costing over 15x that. Don't focus on my warranty, focus on the point I'm making about disassembly and reassembly. If you have a way to tell that your Sebenza comes back together 100% the same please let everyone know.

And on your other point, plenty of production companies offer refurbishing for a small fee. Charging a nominal fee versus offering the service completely free shouldn't be the difference between levels of customer service. Even Microtech replaced my backspacer, lock bar insert, and sharpened my blade for free (apart from shipping, a $15 fee which I consider nominal.) That doesn't mean their customer service even comes close to touching that of CRK.

Well asdf just confessed to it on here so his warranty is void

But all joking aside thanks for the info. Benchmade does discourage taking a knife apart while CRK does not discourage it. I am not familiar with the particulars of Benchmade's policy as I have never sent a Benchmade in for service, I was just going by what they openly state. However, I have requested replacement parts and they were great to deal with and sent them free of charge.

As a side note, I have sent in a CRK in pieces due to pinched washers and they brought it back to new. I am not aware of any other production manufacturer that will recondition their knives free of charge and accept a box of parts without hesitation.

If there is one that offers equal or superior service please let me know!

 

[asdf12345]

Edit: My apologies, we were on the same page as far as that was concerned...

I get you. But again we're on the same page, I just simplified it down a bit too much. My point was that you said that you wouldnt buy the sebenza at the price it costs, and that I had no problem with that because you obviously are not just a basher who doesn't accept that others would. What I was trying to say is that the term "overrated" did not fit in the discussion because it was not the performance of the knife itself that was lacking in your opinion, but the performance at the price it costs. I don't care what you want to call it, the fact that you won't pay the price of the knife means that to you it is an overpriced knife. Simple economics. However, there are also other factors such as aesthetics that might lead you to not buy it, but since you made no mention of that being a reason you don't personally like the knife, I only had price to go by.

 

[@LeathermanGX]

Overrated doesn't necessarily have to do with price. A knife can cost $30, $100, $400, and offer great performance for its price, for example, but if superlative statements are constantly made about quality or performance, that knife can be overrated.

Word.