What lock for a life time? framelock or lockback?

Artfully Martial said:
For that matter, is there anyone that actually flicks their sebenza?
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No, because we are all grown ups that dont need to impress their friends.
:p
 
I'm quite certain I could get any framelock to embed deeper with flicking, I've gotten axis locks to stick open. Although I've never noticed any wear or flattening on any of my stop pins.
 
Good. Please do go buy some Bradleys. That will make more for us, and you will never be able to appreciate what the Sebenza is really about. Enjoy your new knife. :rolleyes:
 
I agree, you should get a Bradley. Then you'll have a(nother) titanium framelock knife with an S30V blade. Unfortunately, this means you'll never understand what makes a Sebenza so special.
 
Artfully Martial said:
It seems to me that problems related to flicking the knife are the result of bad craftsmanship
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There are two types of flicking, one is using the thumb, the other is done with the wrist (inertia) Flicking with the wrist can and will damage the stop pin on any knife.

Which one do you mean?
 
Just in case AM left the thread as he said he would in his last post, we were discussing fast opening of lockbacks in another thread. We both referred to thumb usage as flicking, and wrist action as inertials. I can only assume he was maintaining the same usage here.

He'll probably post to clarify himself soon, anyway.
 
Yeah, sorry, I was meaning all kinds of flicking, including inertial....though thumb flicking seems to be the main way I open a knife. Don't mean to offend too many folks, and certainly don't mean to derail the discussion, so I'll stop discussing the sebenza ness...and the bradley comment was merely a joke. I think I've said all I can on my opinion of framelocks in general anyway. Sorry everyone.
 
I am one of those rare people who have had more than one lock-back fail on them, so I prefer the simplicity and reliability of a frame-lock.

As to the non-germane topic of flicking, inertial opening, drop popping, what have you, that is for each maker to decide what is covered under warranty and each user to decide if he is happy with that warranty.

An AO knife has a set force for opening that can be calculated into the design, while a forced opening cannot. Seldom have I seen an auto or AO that was so strong it could send the knife flying from your grip, but I have seen forced openings that sent the knife across the room. I believe a “flick” can be much harder and thus more harmful to a folding knife mechanism.
 
You know, I talked to a good maker about his knife- which is a flipper- and asked him about wrist action. In my mind, if something is meant to be flipped open (I mean, they actually GIVE you the device to flip with, so why not?) then inertial, wrist action shouldn't bother the knife at all. Then he gave me a small lesson in the way to open the knife properly. With a properly built flipper you shouldn't need any wrist action. On LARGE (4"+) flippers the blade compared to the stop pin is quite large. There's a lot of force with just the blade hitting the pin, let alone the added force of the wrist flick.

I don't think its going to cause immediate damage, but it'll flatten out the stop pin over time. Think about the holes water makes in concrete. If it hits the same spot, eventually something's got to give. I'd suggest that's a reason to buy from someone who uses top-notch materials and offers a good warranty.

Now, I'm not trying to start anything, which is forum-speak for me pulling on the flame suit, but just what is this magical quality that the Sebenza has that these people will be missing out on? Before you ask, I've had three of them. I didn't get the magic. It was well made. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a Buck/Mayo 172 that I've carried for the last 2 years. The lockbar hasn't moved at all, and its just as good now as it was when I first got it. I think the Sebenza would be better represented as what it is- a very well made knife in the upper end of the production world- rather than given some kind of mystical quality that only owners can understand. Its a knife. No more, and no less. I mean, I'm up front with my sometimes less-than-stellar opinion of Striders (though I EDC one and personally like mine), so what is the harm in doing the same with CRK? That is, of course, keeping personalities out of it and just going by the knives.
 
SpyderJon said:
Now, I'm not trying to start anything, which is forum-speak for me pulling on the flame suit, but just what is this magical quality that the Sebenza has that these people will be missing out on? Before you ask, I've had three of them. I didn't get the magic. It was well made. Nothing more, nothing less. I have a Buck/Mayo 172 that I've carried for the last 2 years. The lockbar hasn't moved at all, and its just as good now as it was when I first got it. I think the Sebenza would be better represented as what it is- a very well made knife in the upper end of the production world- rather than given some kind of mystical quality that only owners can understand. Its a knife. No more, and no less. I mean, I'm up front with my sometimes less-than-stellar opinion of Striders (though I EDC one and personally like mine), so what is the harm in doing the same with CRK? That is, of course, keeping personalities out of it and just going by the knives.
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It's a cult! Nah, it is just an appreciation for a great design and one of the first (if not the first) extra thick framelock folding knife. I can't speak for others, but the Sebenza hits the sweet spot for me of "the best knife I'm willing to use everyday and not so rare or expensive I worry about damaging it". In that vein, isn't it mystical? :D
 
From Lemon328i:
When the blade pivot wears out and you have play in the blade is why. Check your pivot lock-up, if you are habitually flicking, the blade will have some play in it (if not now, it will eventually). My Endura certainly did after flicking it for a few years (that is why it sits in a box at home), so did an AFCK (a much more expensive loss).

I could "flick" the blade on my Sebenza open, but why would I want to put undue stress on the pivot bearing, the stop pin and the lockbar for no good reason?
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So you "baby" your Sebenza!
I've flicked many lock-backs for many years with no ill effects whatsoever, including the Endura 3.
So basically, you are admitting that if you "flicked" the Sebenza it would not hold up as well as an FRN Endura.

The lockback bar may be fine, but the pivot is not designed for high speed-high torque "flicking". If you want to open a knife fast, why not buy something designed for it like a gravity knife, assisted opener or switchblade?
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I own several assisted-openers and a few autos as well (switchblades), and I can tell you with 100% certainty that they are no stronger than an non-assisted-opening or non-auto folder in regards to the pivot and stop-pin.

Your Kershaw bump isn't likely to have a problem as it was designed for the SpeedSafe system. (Switchblades and gravity knives obviously also have no problem with high-speed and high-torque opening) Most other knives are not designed for this.
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If you disassemble an auto, an assisted-opener, and your average "tactical" one-hander you will discover that there are no real differences in pivot or stop-pin strength.
Any average modern one-hander should be able to withstand "flicking" without any problems.
My Sebenza has been opened in excess of 10,000 times with the only evident wear in finish. The lock-up and blade movement are still practically zero.
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But basically you "baby" your Sebenza and you don't put any undue stress on it.
With that kind of treatment even an Opinel will last several lifetimes.

From JoHnYKwSt:
This is why CRK uses a ceramic ball rather than steel. Reinforces the idea that lock quality also needs to be taken into consideration and not just lock type.
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I'm not sure that a ceramic ball is better.
We often use ceramic rods to sharpen blades, so I wonder what effect the ceramic detent will have on the blade over time?
With most liner-locks and frame-locks that I've seen, one can easily see a wear line from the ball-detent contacting the blade.
Will a ceramic ball-detent eventually wear a "track" in the blade?

From Temper:
Because there is no real need to flick it other than to satisfy someones IMHO childish needs. If the maker of the knife says dont flick it, then dont flick it, dont have a tantrum fit and squweem and squween until you are sick.
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Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and if you are content with a knife-maker forbidding you to do something that most other knife makers have no problem with, then more power to you.
But I don't think this really helps in determining with locks holds up better over time.
It's the same as saying that a frame-lock holds up better than a lock-back so long as you don't subject it to the force that a lock-back routinely endures.

I think some folks have been offended by the notion that the Sebenza might not be better than the average lock-back when it comes to longevity.
But remember, this is about ALL lock-backs vs ALL frame-locks on average.
This is not a Sebenza thread.
 
Lemon328i said:
In that vein, isn't it mystical? :D
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Well, I'm glad you like it, and I'm glad that all the other satisfied CRK customers are satisfied as well. It doesn't make it anything other than a knife though.

And, no, it isn't mystical. Actually, it sounds kinda neurotic. I'm not saying I DON'T share the neurosis, but its still borderline pathological.
 
and if you are content with a knife-maker forbidding you to do something
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He is the designer, the maker and winner of how many quality awards? If he reccomends somthing I follow it. I dont get into a hissy fit about someone telling me what I can and cant do with a knife. Thats the trouble with some people, they are so bent on doing it their way because they can, that they are too stupid to listen to someone that is giving them advice.

Do whatever you want, flicking to me is a waste of time, if I have taken the time to put the knife in my hand its just as easy to open it with my thumb as it is to flick it.
 
allenC said:
I'm not sure that a ceramic ball is better.
We often use ceramic rods to sharpen blades, so I wonder what effect the ceramic detent will have on the blade over time?
With most liner-locks and frame-locks that I've seen, one can easily see a wear line from the ball-detent contacting the blade.
Will a ceramic ball-detent eventually wear a "track" in the blade?
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This is a fair train of thought. However, in my experience, the track the ball rides on does not become a groove. The ball will actually flatten out, just at a much slower rate compared to stainless steel. Keep in mind that the ball gets abraded in the same spot at all times whereas the track is abraded at different spots all along the track. I would also like to add that just because a frame/liner lock uses a stainless steel ball, this does not make it inferior. Different makers and manufacturers put different amounts of tension into their locks. For a lock with less tension a stainless ball would probably be fine.
 
Temper said:
Do whatever you want, flicking to me is a waste of time, if I have taken the time to put the knife in my hand its just as easy to open it with my thumb as it is to flick it.
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Flicking is faster, how does it waste time. Also, flicking doesn't just mean inertials as we mentioned a few posts up. Perhaps this could be clarified, does CRK forbid only wrist motion inertials, or also snapping the blade open with a flick of the thumb against the stud?
 
Since when is "babying" a knife a bad thing? I don't know where the hell you come from, but I like taking care of my knives, as they are tools that I know will serve me well when treated with due respect. What are you suggesting we do with our Sebenzas?
 
Django606 said:
Since when is "babying" a knife a bad thing? I don't know where the hell you come from, but I like taking care of my knives, as they are tools that I know will serve me well when treated with due respect. What are you suggesting we do with our Sebenzas?
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I think that most of us knife nuts baby our knives to some degree, and there's nothing wrong with that.
But since the thread is about what locking folder will last a lifetime I think that you have to pick the one that does not REQUIRE the baby treatment.
I apologize if I was not clear earlier.
 
Flicking is faster, agreed. But seriously, are you under such time constraints, where .1 of a second makes a difference (except to yout G.F of course) :D
 
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