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What makes zero tolerance so tough?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by crimsonfalcon07, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. Pilot1

    Pilot1 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 24, 2005

    Well we do like our guns. Although we can have the real thing. :D

    I'll have to go dig the boxes out and look at them, you have my curiosity pegged. I like the ESEE packaging too, plus their sheaths. I'd rather have them put the money into the products, not the package.
  2. Thomas W

    Thomas W Banned by Moderators Banned

    Oct 11, 2005
    Here is an image of the new packaging. We did remove the word "combat" as well.

  3. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    Packaging? Who gives a flip about packaging???
    I thought we were discussing knives here.
  4. Überich


    Feb 20, 2011
    @ Thomas W:
    ahhh, much better! looks stylish even! any wallpaper available? ;)
    that really suits the beauty that is the 030x much better.
    one question though: what's my mission - should i choose to accept it? (to get another one just for the new package? :D)

    (i hope no one is offended by that. i know there are people out there for whom the mission is serious - my full respect to them)
  5. Artfully Martial

    Artfully Martial

    Jun 8, 2005
    thank god you got rid of the word combat. that was a nightmare for a defense attorney waiting to happen
  6. Thomas W

    Thomas W Banned by Moderators Banned

    Oct 11, 2005
    Meh...think "knife" or "serious" are ok?
  7. shanny19


    Nov 29, 2003
    I gotta side w/ Artfully on this one. Much rather carry a 0200 downtown than a "skirmish" etc.
  8. Thomas W

    Thomas W Banned by Moderators Banned

    Oct 11, 2005
    Me too, but not cause of the name. ;)
  9. CrimsonTideShooter


    Oct 23, 2010
  10. Angus McGunnigl

    Angus McGunnigl

    May 22, 2002
    I think the name "Zero Tolerance" is what makes them so tough.

    It just sounds so angry. No compassion. No benevolence.
    It's like the knife is screaming at you.
  11. crimsonfalcon07


    Dec 27, 2010
    I think a lot of people are missing the point of the question. It's obvious they're "designed to be tough." That's their marketing gimmick. Saying that they're tough because they're designed to be tough provides no useful information, and is barely better than a tautology.

    WHAT aspects of the design make them so tough?

    So far, I've gathered that the liners, handle material, pivot, and blade are all thicker. The blade has a more aggressive grind to maximize toughness (at the cost of pure slicing ability?). I also gather they're very impressive in person.

    Basically, I'm after a significant level of detail here. I want the physics and chemistry here. If you're going to say that they've got some sort of a heat treat, explain the details. What's the HRC measurement? How does that affect the toughness of the folder positively? Where is the best balance between hardness, and reducing brittleness?

    More, when we're talking about toughness, what exactly do we mean? I gather that toughness means different things for different people. Are we talking the knife's ability to survive stupid tests that have nothing to do with real world stresses? Or are we talking about a knife you can depend on as a survival knife when you really need it to be dependable? I have trouble thinking of any situations where I would be banging on the spine of my knife with a hammer, for instance, barring batoning, and that's not exactly a practical use of a knife either, and in any case, batoning isn't likely going to affect the lock.

    As far as lock strength goes, I'd like a lock to be able to support more weight than I could conceivably put on it, no matter how I stress it (given a realistic survival situation). I'd be interested to see how the zero tolerance knives stack up. If a liner lock can't support more than 150 pounds...well, that strikes me as a potential weak point.

    And please. Stop with the Cold Steel "discussion." If you want to debate the relative merits (or lack thereof) of Cold Steel, start your own thread. The only reason I would want to see CS in here is if there's a specific model that you think compares to ZT in terms of toughness.
  12. Buffalohump


    Sep 7, 2006
    These threads are always contentious. I gave my view of the whole subject. Some agree, some dont. Bottom line is 'toughness' is a difficult thing to measure, for the reasons I outlined in my earlier post - 99% of the tasks a knife is required for will never test the knife to its limits. So I guess you have to ask yourself: do I really need such a 'tough' folder? Am I likely to find myself trapped in a 'survival' situation where the knife will be called upon to perform above and beyond the normal call of duty? If the answer is YES, then get one. I'm sure they will do the job you ask of them.

    As to the Cold Steel comparisons, you asked about lock strength. The Tri-Ad has been tested rigorously both by CS and by independent parties and shown to be extremely strong, therefore its perfectly legit to throw it into the mix. You might say it is the yard stick against which everything else must be measured.

  13. Buffalohump


    Sep 7, 2006
    Very nice..... :thumbup:

  14. whitty

    whitty Dealer / Materials Provider Dealer / Materials Provider

    Aug 25, 2005

    I have not always been a huge Kershaw/ZT fan but definitely not a hater. It is because of dead honest posts like this that I will always check out the product. If it at all appeals to me I will have no hesitation buying it. Thomas, your presence hear is very much appreciated.

  15. crimsonfalcon07


    Dec 27, 2010
    I am fine with discussion of the Tri-Ad lock when it's actually about the topic at hand. The vast majority of the CS talk has been rather puerile off-topic squabbling about the brand itself. Discussion about whether or not CS is the most bashed brand or not has nothing to do with how tough ZT knives are. Arguing about whether or not there was bashing has nothing to do with it either. Discussion about how awesome Andrew Demko is for inventing the Tri-Ad lock is not helpful.

    If we're going to talk about Cold Steel, it would be far more interesting and relevant to me to do a side-by-side comparison of a CS product with a reputation for durability against a ZT product. I have very little interest in purchasing any more CS products, until or unless I end up having more money than I know what to do with (one can always hope).

    I have no problem with the thread being contentious. I do prefer to see well-thought out and detailed responses as compared to vague generalizations or off-topic squabbling. There have been many very helpful and interesting responses, which I think are very profitable, and I hate to see those lose their emphasis because others want to fight about CS. It's been really fantastic to hear about the knives from the perspective of the manufacturer, and I'm really glad Thomas W has been chiming in here.

    I guess at this point, I'm wondering if there's more to it than just saying that ZT knives have thicker stress-bearing parts.

    I mean, if we're going to talk locks, I personally am of the opinion that the locks that ZT seems to use are among the weaker types of locks design-wise. The Tri-Ad and Spyderco BBL are the leaders in lock strength IMO, and can support a lot more stress than a liner lock. I have no experience with the Hawk lock, so I have no opinions about that. They do have the advantage of simplicity.
  16. Buffalohump


    Sep 7, 2006
    Yes, agreed. The squabbling is annoying...

    Re: lock strength. Its a tricky one. Perception rather than reality often plays a part. For example, you consider the BBL to be one of the best locks. However, the Manix 2 was stress tested by a member here and it failed quite easily. Cue a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth! There are a lot of Manix 2 fans here and they werent happy with the outcome, but there it was, on video, for all to see. I believe there was a ZT also tested in that series and it did quite well, if memory serves. There isnt a great deal of side by side testing done which would declare, once and for all, which is the best lock out there. The Tri-Ad is one that HAS been extensively tested (abused) and it held up very well. There it is.....

  17. Artfully Martial

    Artfully Martial

    Jun 8, 2005
    Let me just get this out there: I buy ZT knives because I think they look totally awesome.
  18. Artfully Martial

    Artfully Martial

    Jun 8, 2005
    I LOLed pretty hard at this.

    Seriously, people on this forum just take themselves so seriously sometimes.
  19. Überich


    Feb 20, 2011
    i don't know what else you expect: engineers with a science degree to hang out here and talk about how they tested a requested knife in the lab?
    i guess it doesn't get any better than subjective views generated from actual use and videos of actual (ab)use. and of course perception plays a
    much bigger part than reality. every serious scientist will tell you so as well by the way.
    everybody develops an impression/ feeling (not scientific insight!) about what makes a knife better than others they can compare it to. just sit down with your granny and give her two knifes - she will be able to tell which one's better in no time...

    but: if you can see a pattern emerge in how people (who like to own and use knives!!!) respond to a certain product that's a good indication of how reality might play out in key scenarios for your intentions with it (considering you're a knife-enthusiast - if you're a woodworker i'd suggest a woodworker-forum for feedback).
    so for this specific crowd i think you could see this pattern for the 030x series: overbuilt, high end materials + fit & finish, tanklike to seemingly indestructible (at least no reports of) and not the supreme cheese-cutting option out there while being too heavy for a few of the feeble folks.
    oh yeah and of course COMBAT and SERIOUS and ZERO F***ING TOLERANCE! (sorry, i just don't want to be too serious - life is too short to be)
  20. singularity35


    Mar 1, 2010
    And that is the point of why I like hard use knives in addition to uber thin slicers. Life is too short to to be content with just light, thin, pocket scalpels. I carry both slicer and "tough" folder to cover most possibilities. And besides I don't cut enough cardboard and tires that using my ZT 301 is still fun, and the thick blade becomes a serious disadvantage.

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