What makes zero tolerance so tough?

I do prefer to see well-thought out and detailed responses as compared to vague generalizations...
The Tri-Ad and Spyderco BBL are the leaders in lock strength IMO, and can support a lot more stress than a liner lock.
Knowing now that it's your preference, I'll say your statement above is very general and a bit vague on the details you seem to be requiring with ZT talk in this thread.:)

I guess at this point, I'm wondering if there's more to it than just saying that ZT knives have thicker stress-bearing parts.
I mean, if we're going to talk locks, I personally am of the opinion that the locks that ZT seems to use are among the weaker types of locks design-wise.
There are times in ones knife life where reading all the positive (or negative) opinions, and voyeuring through the vast amount of video's just doesn't cut it. You really have to just step right up and see, feel, and experience it all for yourself. Then, and only then, will you really know.
 
Well, I guess I still remember my first knives - slipjoints. Still using my pocket folders for cutting applications, I try to not use them in such a manner that my safety is dependent on the locking device. It is my opinion that the 0301 is decidedly rugged in build - everywhere - and manufactured to very close tolerance - and that was the reason for the 'Zero Tolerance' name. The 0551 follows closely in those attributes, as well.

Of course, my first Kershaw, a Scallion from years ago, started my appreciation of the marque - which maximized in the production JYDII in Ti & SG2, IMHO. Heck, my second best 'Kershaw' is a blemished version of that knife!

My favorite BM is my 630 - even bought a backup - never considered it's name - 'Skirmish' - as bellicose. Gotta wonder what they were thinking with their 741 'Onslaught' and 860 BEDLAM. I never thought about names before!

Stainz
 
Yes, agreed. The squabbling is annoying...

Re: lock strength. Its a tricky one. Perception rather than reality often plays a part. For example, you consider the BBL to be one of the best locks. However, the Manix 2 was stress tested by a member here and it failed quite easily. Cue a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth! There are a lot of Manix 2 fans here and they werent happy with the outcome, but there it was, on video, for all to see. I believe there was a ZT also tested in that series and it did quite well, if memory serves. There isnt a great deal of side by side testing done which would declare, once and for all, which is the best lock out there. The Tri-Ad is one that HAS been extensively tested (abused) and it held up very well. There it is.....

Crimson - are you looking for a spreadsheet of "apples to apples" here - thats easily doable. look at all the parts of a knife, and then directly compare them side by side.

just start listing parts and compare the materials of the parts and the size of the parts.

If you do this - all the way down the line, differences will become clear. forget subjectiveness such as "fit and finish" per se and focus on what it is made of and size of said parts.

Pivot point?
Spacers
Liner thickness?
Liner material?
handle thickness
Handle material?
blade/pivot stop?
thickness of said stop?
thickness of blade at spine?
thickness of blade at tip?
hardness of blade on rockwell?
blade material?
blade length?
handle length?
overall weight?


now, earlier you encapsalated all of these things into "well it seems that it's just about the materials" saying that is like saying the difference between cars is "just some parts n' stuff" -- there is engineering in everything we do.
 
I am fine with discussion of the Tri-Ad lock when it's actually about the topic at hand. The vast majority of the CS talk has been rather puerile off-topic squabbling about the brand itself. Discussion about whether or not CS is the most bashed brand or not has nothing to do with how tough ZT knives are. Arguing about whether or not there was bashing has nothing to do with it either. Discussion about how awesome Andrew Demko is for inventing the Tri-Ad lock is not helpful.

If we're going to talk about Cold Steel, it would be far more interesting and relevant to me to do a side-by-side comparison of a CS product with a reputation for durability against a ZT product. I have very little interest in purchasing any more CS products, until or unless I end up having more money than I know what to do with (one can always hope).

I have no problem with the thread being contentious. I do prefer to see well-thought out and detailed responses as compared to vague generalizations or off-topic squabbling. There have been many very helpful and interesting responses, which I think are very profitable, and I hate to see those lose their emphasis because others want to fight about CS. It's been really fantastic to hear about the knives from the perspective of the manufacturer, and I'm really glad Thomas W has been chiming in here.

I guess at this point, I'm wondering if there's more to it than just saying that ZT knives have thicker stress-bearing parts.

I mean, if we're going to talk locks, I personally am of the opinion that the locks that ZT seems to use are among the weaker types of locks design-wise. The Tri-Ad and Spyderco BBL are the leaders in lock strength IMO, and can support a lot more stress than a liner lock. I have no experience with the Hawk lock, so I have no opinions about that. They do have the advantage of simplicity.

well I'd say it't ok to talk about how awesome I am
 
Crimson - are you looking for a spreadsheet of "apples to apples" here - thats easily doable. look at all the parts of a knife, and then directly compare them side by side.

just start listing parts and compare the materials of the parts and the size of the parts.

If you do this - all the way down the line, differences will become clear. forget subjectiveness such as "fit and finish" per se and focus on what it is made of and size of said parts.

Pivot point?
Spacers
Liner thickness?
Liner material?
handle thickness
Handle material?
blade/pivot stop?
thickness of said stop?
thickness of blade at spine?
thickness of blade at tip?
hardness of blade on rockwell?
blade material?
blade length?
handle length?
overall weight?


now, earlier you encapsalated all of these things into "well it seems that it's just about the materials" saying that is like saying the difference between cars is "just some parts n' stuff" -- there is engineering in everything we do.

This sounds very much like what I was hoping for. Would be nice to see what all ZT has chosen to strengthen for their models, as compared to other knives that have a reputation for being quite durable.

I'm also curious if anyone has found themselves in a situation where they NEEDED the durability of a ZT versus that of a Manix, Sebenza, Ritter Grip, or any of the other popular models that are supposed to be reasonably durable.
 
Needed it yet, No. Nock on wood!

However I have it on my Blackhawk vest if I do. and so do most my other team mates. That is Like the Chief we met at the last training. He asked if we all carry 6 M4 mags, and why. the responce was simple... We only have 3 double mag tacos. You carry more because it is better to have it and not need it than not have it and needing it. Nothing wrong with the blades that some carry but I will still stick to my 200.
 
This sounds very much like what I was hoping for. Would be nice to see what all ZT has chosen to strengthen for their models, as compared to other knives that have a reputation for being quite durable.

I'm also curious if anyone has found themselves in a situation where they NEEDED the durability of a ZT versus that of a Manix, Sebenza, Ritter Grip, or any of the other popular models that are supposed to be reasonably durable.

Zero Tolerance 0500 MUDD:

Location: Honduras (rainforest), beach, etc.


Coating + seals + G-10 traction allowed for ultimate durability and corrosion protection in this 99% humidity environment. I've done plenty of reviews on it, the MUDD still comes out as one of my all time favorite folding knives.

The lock held fine when I was batoning firewood while I was camping last year. Still tight as a drum.
 
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