What other folders compare to the Sebenza?

One thing that I've always GREATLY disliked about the sebenza is the finish on the handle. It scratches WAY too easily for a knife in that price range. There's no reason that CRK can't use a courser bead blast, or some other type of process to prevent scratching. The fine bead blast they use is just lame. IMO this is ridiculous for a knife in this price point. I've had Ti handled knives that were around 100x more scratch resistant than the good ol' seb.
Sorry to trash a knife in it's own forum..... It is really a great knife, but I think this is it's greatest failure.
 
rosconey said:
what aboot a hinderer-
im selling my stuff so i can get one-want a small xm18
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You should take THAT question to general knife discussion.
 
Scares me cause it just isnt in the same league. If i had to stake my life on either the police or the sebbie. I would choose the sebbie hands down. It is just a better knife IMO. that is jsut my opinion. And it shouldnt be in the same league as the sebbie considering the price difference. Im not knocking the police. It is a damn good knife. But it just isnt in the same league as the sebbie. Another thing is that eventually a lock back knife will fail. It jsut wears in such a way that it will fail over time. The framelock can over travel but it takes time. and it can be corrected. Another hting is that it is riveted together. if it is droped in a substance like salt water a small amount will stay in there no matter waht you do unless you submerge it in a cleaner. or take a long amount of your time scrubbing it down with a cloth. I dotn habitually carry a cleaning cloth or or a bucket of cleaner. Im not knockign the police. It is a good knife. but none the less not as good as a sebbie.
 
blackend said:
I've had(sold em) a couple of Strider's and don't feel the same about these. I think they are over priced and undermade; Mick and his crew have got a pretty good gimmick going with what they're offering. I won't buy another one
:rolleyes:
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I know that this statement is a obviously just your opinion but I don't think it is very credible. The Striders though not my favorite in the style department are definately not undermade. The Sebenza has them in style and utility for an EDC knife but when it comes to a heavy duty field user, that I would want in the worst conditions for the worst tasks the Sebenza is not equal. They are both in the same price range (at least the SMF and the Sebenza with micarta onlay that I own are) and there is certainly no more gimmick or overpricing going on with one than the other. They are both rock solid locks and first rate materials (both my SMF and Sebenza have S30V blades) and manufacturing fit and finish is first rate on both although plainer on the SMF. But when you are cold and dirty wearing gloves and need fire tinder or have to setup camp the superior grip and larger size and weight of the SMF is a big advantage and not having the detail machining of the Sebenza does not matter one little bit.

I do like the Sebenza better for an EDC on the job or just in general (I always carry one large folder). But at $400+ the Sebenza is still only slightly better than some of the Microtechs for half the cost and as I said in the field is not the best performer against the similarly priced Strider SMF.

I am in the field at least one or two weekends a month sometimes making primative or improvised campsites and always building cooking fires and setting up shelters. I have been doing this for over 20 years and have gone through a lot of knives and would not push any knife unless it were very good.

Vince.
 
In terms of quality, Spyderco does not come close to CRK.

There are some other production titanium framelocks out there. The Skirmish, the Alias, the Buck TNT etc... They are great knives and do compare to the Sebenza, and are cheaper. But the quality, fit, and finish are not as good as the Sebenza.

The other high-end production companies like William Henry and Strider do not have CRK's level of quality.

The knives that match the Sebenza in terms of quality are customs and cost as much or more.

The Sebenza isn't the end-all, be-all of knives. I, personally, would rather have a Tom Mayo TNT than a Sebenza (and I will be buying one soon), and I recently handled a John W Smith titanium framelock with a G-10 onlay that blew me away more than my Sebenza does. I will be buying it soon as well. But those are customs. IMO, and the opinion on many, in the production knife world, the only folders that can match the Sebenza in terms of quality are Mnandis. That doesn't mean CRK makes the best production knives since there are so many subjective issues to consider. Some may prefer a Ka-Bar Dozier to a Sebenza. Or a Spyderco Police, or Military or whatever. But in terms of quality, yeah, CRK are pretty much tops.

There are some customs that cost around the same as the Sebenza and have the same quality. The main advantage of a Sebenza in that comparison is that it is easier to buy (more accessable), and replace.

If you don't have an eye for detail, then a Sebenza might not be for you. You might be just as happy with one of the Sebenza's less expensive production titanium framelock alternatives like the Buck TNT, or Skirmish. I own those as well and they are great knives. The Sebenza is a little bit better than they are due to the superior details, but it also costs more than twice as much. So it is up to you whether those details matter enough to you. For me, they do matter so I did buy a Sebenza, but I didn't stop there and will continue to buy knives that are cheaper *and* more expensive than the Sebenza, such as Spydercos, Microtechs, Benchmades, and Tom Mayos, Rick Hinderers, and John W Smiths. They all have their own appeal.

The law of diminishing returns is true. At the higher prices, you need to pay a lot more to get a little more. But as a knife knut, I am willing to do that.

Also, I want to second the opinion that Striders are fantastic knives and are very well-built. I have seen the complaints and I have seen Mick act like a jerk, but every single Strider I have laid my hands on what a fantastic and well-built knife. I think the SMF/SNG is the best functional user design in the world of folders. Period. Obviously that has a lot to do with my hands and how well they fit me. Some find them uncomfortable. But ergos aside, the designs are extremely functional and well-thought-out.
 
Here's a recent new strider pic from the knife reviews forum. Check out how the lock fits (or doesn't) in this case. Striders _might_ be better, but only if you get once that's not messed up. Plus they'll accuse you of trying to pull one over on them if you send it back.

I'm assuming having a lock that works properly AND having good cutomer service is important.

Strider_RC_Lockup_01.gif


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403176
 
I'm pretty sure that Strider has fantastic customer support. Mick becomes a jerk when people post about their bad Strider experiences on forums and will continue to be a jerk when the knife is sent in. But if someone just sends the knife in, they get it fixed for free and without question.

I am not defending Mick, but facts are facts. If you send a Strider in without a public display, they will make it right. They are some of the best when it comes to that. I have seen Sal Glesser (who I respect very much) act like a child (though a much more mature child than Mick Strider) too when someone publicly states their problems with Spyderco. Now, I do consider Sal to be a great person and I am not so sure about Mick, but Strider has the better warrenty and warrenty service, even if one of the guys running it tells people to lick his balls. So yes, Mick has said some things that make him look bad, but give credit where it is due.

Reguarding that lock... does it just look bad or did it actually fail? I hate to seem like a Strider fanboy, but it seems the main issue people have with their locks is that they don't look how they think a lock should look. I haven't heard of any Strider lock failures. And in past threads, the people saying Strider locks are not done well also (sometimes) say the Buck Strider locks *are* done well. That is funny considering how many reports of failures the Buck Striders have. Maybe how you think a lock should look isn't always better? Maybe the theories about lock and tang contact are only one path to the goal of a good lock?

I respect you a lot Dave, but I don't think you can say that lock is not proper. I agree that it looks off, but does it work? Has it been tested to failure?

I have to ask these questions because even the top knife makers in the world do not agree on the right way to make a Walker lock. So whether some nobody on a forum thinks a lock looks right or not doesn't really concern me. What does concern me is whether the lock is actually going to hold or not.

I think Strider has proven themself in the real world. Yes, there is also a lot of fanboy hype about them, but past that, they really do work.

I think a lot of people here like to look at a lock and try to predict how it will wear, or guess how it will perform. I think that is a mistake.
 
That knife pictured was returned for a refund as I recall from the thread. Also there was a problem with blade play so the lock was not right.

In my personal experience of two events with Strider service, one was OK (reground tip on passaround) the other was somewhat less satisfactory. In that case I bought a new Strider PT with blade play, they wanted $20 to fix it even though it was brand new.

My point really is that Strider _could_ be good or _might_ be good, but it seems that it's more likely you'll get a bum knife then with other brands. Which might be worth considering.
 
I do agree with that. While I am a fan of Strider knives, I would not buy one without handling it first. I would buy a CRK without having to handle it or even see a picture of it.

But if I can handle a Strider and a CRK, which one I take home is a tough choice.

In my experience (for what it is worth) the claims of Strider's QC being dismal are exaggerated. I do not think their QC is worse than brands like Benchmade, Buck, or Spyderco- and that means it is pretty good. Obviously the problem is the price difference. I will buy a $100 Buck without handling it, but if I am dropping over $300, I want to make sure the knife is how I want it. I trust CRK enough to buy one without holding it, but I do not trust Strider that much (but I do trust them as much as BM, Spyderco, Buck, Kershaw, etc...)

However, I still think the knives are worth the money and some of the best knives overall in the world. I am lucky enough to live within driving distance of Plaza Cutlery and can handle Striders before buying.

But again, I have yet to personally handle one with any problems. I do not doubt they exist, but my experience with Strider's knives have been good.
 
Hair said:
Mick becomes a jerk when people post about their bad Strider experiences on forums and will continue to be a jerk when the knife is sent in. But if someone just sends the knife in, they get it fixed for free and without question.
I am not defending Mick, but facts are facts.
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Karma is going to catch up with him one of these days, and I'm going to laugh my ass off when it does. Sorry about the hijack, but when you're as successful as Mick, you need to appreciate where your money came from.
 
I like to see abrasive, arrogant people put in their place as well, but is he really that successful?

Mick Strider lives in the same city as me (Oceanside), and it isn't exactly Beverly Hills. Some of the houses are very expensive because they are near the beach, and housing in California is expensive in general, but Oceanside is a nice town for finding crack and prostitutes, it's not the lap of luxury (though it isn't really that bad either). And when talking to Dan Delavan about Strider he said their shop in San Marcos (just a few miles from me) is very small and unimpressive.

Strider is certainly a somewhat successful company, but they also have a lot of trash talked about them.

I wonder how much of the trash talk about Strider is because Mick is a jerk, or whether Mick is a jerk because of some of the early unwarrenty trash talk towards the brand.

I really just think Mick needs to act more professional. I don't think he is any more of a jerk than other famous knife makers or business owners. He just lacks tact and a sense of how to turn his thoughts into words that don't make him look childish. He just needs a typing filter. I do not think his thoughts and motives (and emotions when people "dis" his work) are any "worse" than those of other knife makers.

(and no, I have never met Mick or anyone else at Strider)
 
I don't want to get into the whole Sebenza/Strider thing, but the picture Dave posted raises a point of comparison that's significant with respect to other knives as well.

Here's something that should be obvious: you simply cannot truthfully say "frame locks are strong" or "frame locks are reliable." In my opinion frame locks are actually kind of tricky to make properly. I've seen and owned lots of other framelocks. I've had frame locks fail on me -- one on a knife that others once called "Sebenza-like."

I have yet to see a production frame lock that is made with the same precision as a Sebenza. I don't think this is a cosmetic detail for people who like close tolerences for the sake of close tolerences. I believe the Sebenza frame lock is, on the whole, more reliable that other framelocks because of how well it's made. If you actually compare the geometry of the frame lock on an open Sebenza to a dozen other production frame locks, you'll see what I mean. Also consider that this precise mating of the surfaces is maintained even long after a Sebenza is broken in. You may not think it matters. Having had a frame lock close on my fingers, I see it differently.

I also believe that the bushing feature works in tandem with the precise mating of the tang and lock bar to create a more reliable lock. That's because I think it's common sense that excessive play could contribute to the lock bar slipping.

Bottom line -- I trust my fingers to the Sebenza frame lock.
 
"I have yet to see a production frame lock that is made with the same precision as a Sebenza. I don't think this is a cosmetic detail for people who like close tolerences for the sake of close tolerences. I believe the Sebenza frame lock is, on the whole, more reliable that other framelocks because of how well it's made. If you actually compare the geometry of the frame lock on an open Sebenza to a dozen other production frame locks, you'll see what I mean. Also consider that this precise mating of the surfaces is maintained even long after a Sebenza is broken in. You may not think it matters. Having had a frame lock close on my fingers, I see it differently.

I also believe that the bushing feature works in tandem with the precise mating of the tang and lock bar to create a more reliable lock. That's because I think it's common sense that excessive play could contribute to the lock bar slipping.

Bottom line -- I trust my fingers to the Sebenza frame lock."
You said it perfectly!! I agree with everything you said. I trust my Sebbies completely. The amazing consistancy with fit and finish with Sebbies IS amazing!! THAT is one of the things that make a Sebbie, a Sebbie. Anyway........
 
Im not knocking the police. It is a damn good knife. But it just isnt in the same league as the sebbie. Another thing is that eventually a lock back knife will fail. It jsut wears in such a way that it will fail over time.
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Well, I suppose it can be argued that everything man-made will eventually fail over time.
But there are lockback Buck 110's that are over thirty years old and going strong.
And there are Police models over twenty years old and going strong.
Lockbacks don't wear out near as easy as some folks would have you believe.
I would even suspect that lockbacks "wear" better than framelocks over the same period of time.

The framelock can over travel but it takes time. and it can be corrected.
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Of course it can be corrected--all you have to do is send it back to Chris.
And a Police with a worn lock can corrected too--all you need to do is send it back to Sal.

Another hting is that it is riveted together. if it is droped in a substance like salt water a small amount will stay in there no matter waht you do unless you submerge it in a cleaner. or take a long amount of your time scrubbing it down with a cloth.
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This is really reaching...if you get salt water on the Police, all you need to do is rinse it with fresh water and shake it out.
Folks have been taking Spyderco SS folders in to the ocean for over twenty years, and it's never been a big problem.

I dotn habitually carry a cleaning cloth or or a bucket of cleaner.
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And if you don't habitually carry a screwdriver with you then the Sebenza can't be disassembled in any event, and then it's essentially no different than a riveted knife.

Do you know what an AK-47 and an M16 have in common?

They can both be field-stripped for cleaning without any tools.
This was a military requirement because the military has learned over time that "Murphy's law" will always prevail.
If you need a screwdriver to field-strip something--Mr. Murphy will see to it that you will not have that screwdriver.
 
Im not talking abotu salt water on the police. im tlaking abotu police on the saltwater.



allenC said:
Do you know what an AK-47 and an M16 have in common?

They can both be field-stripped for cleaning without any tools.
This was a military requirement because the military has learned over time that "Murphy's law" will always prevail.
If you need a screwdriver to field-strip something--Mr. Murphy will see to it that you will not have that screwdriver.
Click to expand...
.


True enough but i dont carry a sebbie. But if you had experience withthe sebbie youd know that it doesnt use ascrewdriver to disassemble it, So i would just ut a square lanyard on it with the allen wrench in it.Problem solved. And if im out in the wild and at a beach (you know those places where salt water comes friom) where am i gonan find a source of fresh water if im so isolated that a "screwdriver" is unavailable. plus washign it doesnt keep it from rusting. That is a job for tuff clothes.


I would personally rather try and fix a frame lock on my own than a lock back.

Most lock back failures signal the end of the knife. But if a frame lock fails it doesnt neccessarily signal the end of the knife. Worst case scenario if you are in the feild and it doesnt snap you bend it back and wedge soem wood or a rock between the lock and the oppsite side. This will turn it nto a light duty fixed. Versus the lockback which now doesnt lock at all in any way.




As i said i like the police. I own one. But it jsut doesnt compare.
 
Wow, you sure make a big deal out of the possibility of rust.

Just think, our forefathers settled the world with carbon steel knives.

Surely there has to be a better reason as to why the Police "does not compare"?
 
I do not think much about rust and I do wish some of the high end knives were offered with carbon steel.
One thing that makes me think that the Police is no where colse to the Sebie besides the pivot is tip and lock strength.I have seen more than a few posts about the lock on the Police breaking under normal use.
 
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