What qualities make a good machete???

A

atomicjoe23

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Mar 1, 2011
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Sorry if this isn't the right forum for this question, but I see some machete discussion going on in here from time to time. . .

. . .so what qualities make a good machete (for brush cutting and general campsite use)?

I had one of the "cheap" Wal-Mart machetes when I was a kid in highschool and I remember it working pretty good for the price. . .at the very least I never had a complaint about it, but I bought what looked to be the exact same thing and it's crap. . .practically bounces off whatever you swing it at and if it doesn't bounce off then it's a glancing blow that just slides down the side of whatever branch you are trying to cut. . .not very safe to be sure. Now I wasn't expecting a whole lot from the thing, but I did expect it to at least stick into something I swung it at not bounce off or slide down it.

So I was thinking of just making my own machete (I've taken a basic knife grinding and knife forging technique so I'm familiar with what is required and I have the basic tools and I have can do my own heat treating at work), but I don't know what features would make a functional machete vs. what I have now.

Thanks for the help!
 
Where are FortyTwoBlades and Joezilla when you need them?

Machete qualities depend a bit on your uses and the targets...err...vegetation you wish to cut with them, (sorry, got carried away on the sword thing there ; ). Harder woods generally need a bit more weight to the blade and a bit of belly near the tip can give some leverage. Vine-like vegetation that's tough and springy will cut better with a lighter, thinner blade. And grasses and small stuff you want a light, fast blade that will cut without bending the foliage too much.

Steel wise I think most machetes aim for a good mix of toughness and edge-holding with the expectation that you can touch them up in the field. Better to have to sharpen than to have the blade break or the edge chip out.

Tip shapes depend a bunch on uses, and whether or not you are using it to butcher animals (or as a backup weapon in some places and cultures). There's also some variation by culture, too. Condor Tool and Knife covers a lot of ground with these variations and does so with more authenticity than Cold Steel (though the CS machetes are not bad).
 
I make 'em, though I use the term "bush sword" (which I did not coin) to describe what I do to differentiate between the cheap and crappy connotation that machetes have gotten because of blades like your Wal*Mart special, and to also indicate a secondary intent of use as a weapon.

On mine, I forge them from 5160 and sharpen them so that the blade will sing through whippy branches that bounce out of the way of a dull blade, yet the blade will still chop wood like an ax. I expect to encounter walls of briars with a machete, but I don't use them on grass. I do make them relatively light weight, as in this case the "a" is more important than the "m" in F = ma, but they still have enough inertia to them to chop deeply into hardwood.

Most of mine have an elongated sine curve to the overall shape. This puts the chopping sweet spot below the level of your knuckles, making for a powerful chop. Go too far down and you start having more difficulty in controlling the swing. You will notice that on a good ax, you can trace a since curve from the position of your hand through the cutting edge, with the edge being a section of that curve. Same principle.

That doesn't necessarily mean the blade of the bush sword is recurved, though it may be. The handles I make are typically curved downward, with the blades having a gentle upward curve. Those curves as well as the angle of the blade to the handle produce a sine curve without a recurve in the blade.

I like a fair amount of belly on the blade, coming up fairly high to form the point. This gives a good two-handed utility edge that you can use as a skew chisel. I've never processed game with one, but it could work for that as well.

I put the widest and thickest part of the blade over the sweet spot for chopping, making it blade-heavy. This can be overdone, but doing it properly makes it an amazing chopper.

I tend to find that around a 13" to 15" blade is most useful for my designs. On a commercially produced machete, I prefer Tramontina brand with an 18" to 20" blade and a synthetic handle (the wooden ones don't fit my gorilla paws), but they're built lighter.

tony.jpg


So, taken altogehter, those qualities make a bush sword that can sing through a mass of thorny briars or hackberry branches thinner than toothpicks, yet still do this:

use08.jpg
 
Equally important are the natural swing of the blade and its sweet spot, and the balance of the steel: blade strength and edge retention.

Machetes are typically long-term use tools-all the time, every time, and having the ergonomics and natural swing that places the sweet spot where it needs to be, that's critical. The blade needs to be strong enough to take impact parallel to it, but at the same time hold enough of an edge that it can slice or chop its way through multiple forms of media.

From there, ergonomics and durability of the handle. A spine thickness, grind and angle of grind that is tailored to the intended media.

There are many specific design styles of machetes and they all have ups and downs, almost like picking a race car in a computer game. Some have good working points, some have flat sections for drawknifing, some have big bellies, or weight-forward for chopping performance, some have strong distal tapers for rollchopping, they all have varying performances in different areas. Some of this is dependent on environment, and some of it is dependent on the personal tastes and skill set of the user.
 
SeaxyBeast said:
Where are FortyTwoBlades and Joezilla when you need them?
Click to expand...

I'm right here! And Joe is busy busy busy like he always is. :D

Ok...there's a LOT to cover on this topic and I'll likely forget some stuff, but lets do this!

Important factors that affect the performance of a good machete include (but are not limited to):

Blade
~Profile
~Length
~Thickness
~Taper (if present)
~Heat treatment (general)
-Combined with width/thickness, affects rigidity
-Impact/shock resistance
-Edge retention
~Primary grind (if present)
~Edge configuration
~Orientation of point (if point is present)
~Mass distribution
~Sweet spot size and placement (Center of Percussion)
~Balance/Pivot nodes
~Single edged vs. double edged
~Coating (if present)
~Ricasso or choil (if present)
~Spine finish (as-stamped, squared, radiused?)
~Fullers (if present)
-may affect flexibility (debatable)

Handle
~Tang
-Length
-Full vs. Partial vs. Hidden
-Part of the equation of mass distribution
-Tang shoulder, if partial/hidden
~Material
-Can also affect mass distribution
-Resistance to shock, impact, weather
-Can affect grip qualities
~Ergonomics/range of suitable grips
~Fastener type/number
~Lanyard hole (if present)


Use/User
~Intent of pattern/design
~Suitability of design for local environment
~Tasks user wishes to perform with the piece
~Experience of user

There's a lot to be said about all of these different aspects, so it's no small task! Any specific questions? :p
 
I'm all for anybody making one for themselves, or having one made. Yet, don't give up looking, there's so many out there. Here's another discussion that has lots of machete info...http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/919115-Best-machete-in-your-opinion

And another, more of a picture "show and tell".. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/700267-Show-Your-Machetes

There are plenty of great machetes out there, as long as you keep in mind, that they are made "softer" than knives due to impact and the ability to sharpen easy. The edges are thin so they cut well, but that thin edge is not as durable as a larger thicker knife edge(just depends on the knife). Good luck with what you decide to do!
 
Wow. . .over-whelming responses; way more than I expected to get back on this subject matter!

Thanks for all the responses and the links!

I don't know about specific questions, but here's what I'm looking for. . .

I live in the Pacific NW so there are a TON of blackberry bushes and scotch broom out here so I want to be able to cut through the thin, lithe vines of blackberry and scotch broom as well as cut through the thick, woody blackberry vines and then do some general camp chopping (splitting large sections of firewood into kindling, cutting fallen branches into more manageable sections, etc.)

What would you guys suggest for this type of work. . .you clearly have more experience with this than I do. I had know idea that the "lowly" machete had so much thought put into it (although I guess it should have gone without saying. . it is a cutting tool/weapon and is deserving as just as much thought and care put into it's design as any other edged tool/weapon).

I have some horsemat stall that I think would make good grip panels for a machete and I was thinking of using some old leaf springs to experiment with shape and weight distribution.
 
Horsemat makes great grips. A moderate bolo design is a good choice for a balanced brush slasher and wood chopper. The Marbles Scout is a latin-style machete with a good belly swell and point-that also would be worth mimicking. I think the 14-16 inch range would be a good target length.
 
No prob, I'd love to see the finished product!

PS, a scooped or slightly canted grip will give you some extra leverage too.
 
Here's one for sale from the Exchange, I saw one in worse condition selling at that auction site for $50.

Yeah, if you make one, I want to see it as well. How thick are you thinking? I ask becuase, my 1/8" thick 18" long Ontario machete chops well for the wood and roots, but it's heavy out there at the tip. Swinging something heavy and long gets difficult after a while.
Sometimes we want the best of both worlds out of our blades, but compromise is always necessary, unless you take several blades. I like blades that excel at what they do. A long thin machete is great for swinging all day, but a shorter stout blades are just so tough.
I like the Ontario's 1095 and it's heat treat, I hate their handles. How damn hard is it to rethink those bulky moldings? I have the edge of my 12" Cutlass convexed in a way that it shaves hair, chops hardwoods, melts through water jugs, and takes no damage from hard use on seasoned hardwoods. It gets dulled, but so far I can just touch it up with a strop, of course it will need some love from the sandpaper sooner or later.
 
DSCN7720.jpg


Drew this up quick. It looks a little fatter in the picture than I intended, but you get the general idea. Gradual thickening to a sweet spot, with a well rounded belly, clip or drop to a working point, and a simple, slightly canted handle. Keep the ricasso as close to the handle as possible to maximize useable edge. I think a 'scandchette' grind would be best suited to these PNW woods. Should swing just a tad heavier than a typical latin machete, and for bushwacking the woody, stringy stuff, it should be great. It should also give you good forward weight for chopping, a useable point for drilling, prying, poking and carving, and a flat section to drawknife and baton with.
 
Wow, thanks PayetteRucker!

You guys are being extremely helpful. . .I'll draw up a pattern this weekend and cut it out of cardboard and modify it to suit; once I'm happy with that I'll bandsaw a section out. I need to get my forge built before I will be able to finish it and there are a few projects in front of the forge, but hopefully I will have this done by the end of February (gotta get those other projects out of the way!). . .

Thanks again!
 
oh it's just what I call a no-bevel V grind on a machete... most machetes keep their stock full thickness up until the grind for the edge, which technically is a scandinavian type grind, though usually they're very shoddily applied...
 
Here's the first one with horse stall matting as a handle that I've ever seen. . .

IMG_0726-1-1.jpg


. . .and the reason I got the horse stall matting I have.
 
Cool. Best of luck... I love seeing new designs develop, and seeing how they perform. The ideal bushcraft design is more or less the same, but there are so many different environments, it's great to work with machetes.
 
take the one you have now , and go give it another work out , but this time , put a lot of thought into what you figure is making the problems it has ..

not enough mass in the right spot for your swing maybe ? not enough mass at all for the work youre doing ? not enough length , maybe too long , is it at all sharp even ? would a different grind make a difference ? then go make one thats different in those respects and give it a bash :)

just my thoughts
 
Good idea. . .I'll give that a try. . .I need to get hopping on building my belt sander as well for sharpening.
 
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