What qualities make a good machete???

atomicjoe23 said:
Wow. . .over-whelming responses; way more than I expected to get back on this subject matter!

Thanks for all the responses and the links!

I don't know about specific questions, but here's what I'm looking for. . .

I live in the Pacific NW so there are a TON of blackberry bushes and scotch broom out here so I want to be able to cut through the thin, lithe vines of blackberry and scotch broom as well as cut through the thick, woody blackberry vines and then do some general camp chopping (splitting large sections of firewood into kindling, cutting fallen branches into more manageable sections, etc.)

What would you guys suggest for this type of work. . .you clearly have more experience with this than I do. I had know idea that the "lowly" machete had so much thought put into it (although I guess it should have gone without saying. . it is a cutting tool/weapon and is deserving as just as much thought and care put into it's design as any other edged tool/weapon).

I have some horsemat stall that I think would make good grip panels for a machete and I was thinking of using some old leaf springs to experiment with shape and weight distribution.
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For that sort of work you'll want at least a 16" blade and preferably 18"-20". Because of your dual need for chopping ability on wood, but lots of lighter brambles and vines as well, you'll actually want your sweet spot a little further down the blade. This will yield good chopping ability on wood (though you'll need to stand a little closer to use said sweet spot) but the lighter tip/overall length means you'll get the increased tip velocity so important to lighter, more flexible targets, and you'll be less prone towards scuffing your knuckles on raspberry thorns! I'll whip up something later and post it here as a general concept.
 
Ok--here's a super quick sketch. Point pretty much in line with the center of the grip for good control, forward guard integrated to form a natural choil without loss of edge length, good sweet spot with a mezzo-balance and fast tip. Approximate 18" blade length.

ForAtomicJoe23.jpg
 
Notice that Payette's sketch follows the elongated sine curve from the handle to the tip of the blade, and that his widest point is at the chopping sweet spot, as I described. The details in execution may differ a smidge from the one I posted, but the basics of mechanics are exactly the same. It works! :)
 
In almost all cases the widest point WILL be the sweet spot. The region with the highest concentration of mass will soak up vibration and become a primary node in any vibrational waves. The sweet spot, or center of percussion, is the spot on the blade where the most energy is transmitted to the blow without being lost as shock or vibration. That's why striking with the sweet spot is so much more effective. However, too forward of a balance will negatively affect acceleration, and tip velocity is one of the requirements for effective cutting of green vegetation because of its low inertia and flexibility. It doesn't require much force to cut, but that force must be transmitted to the target over the shortest period of time possible. :)

This is why machetes dedicated to vegetation clearing are typically both very long and very light, as this maximizes tip velocity through a combination of length (the outermost point of a rotating object moves faster than the base to keep pace with the regions of the object closest to the point of rotation) and low weight for increased ease of acceleration.

Whew! :eek:
 
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FortyTwoBlades said:
In almost all cases the widest point WILL be the sweet spot. The region with the highest concentration of mass will soak up vibration and become a primary node in any vibrational waves. The sweet spot, or center of percussion, is the spot on the blade where the most energy is transmitted to the blow without being lost as shock or vibration. That's why striking with the sweet spot is so much more effective. However, too forward of a balance will negatively affect acceleration, and tip velocity is one of the requirements for effective cutting of green vegetation because of its low inertia and flexibility. It doesn't require much force to cut, but that force must be transmitted to the target over the shortest period of time possible. :)

This is why machetes dedicated to vegetation clearing are typically both very long and very light, as this maximizes tip velocity through a combination of length (the outermost point of a rotating object moves faster than the base to keep pace with the regions of the object closest to the point of rotation) and low weight for increased ease of acceleration.

Whew! :eek:
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All true statements.

Have you ever seen/used a Christmas Tree-trimming "knife"? They have a long-ish handle, but the blade is quite thin, narrow, light, flexible and is kept hair-popping sharp. Not a machete in the "classic" sense, but it's overall length, iirc, is in the 20"- 30" range. They are *super* fast to use and quite nimble, but not something i'd use for "wood" because the edge just can't handle the impact.

Also, your "super quick sketch" in post #22 looks like the machete in the movie, "The Book of Eli". I'll watch it tonight to verify!!!
 
Believe it or not, I actually haven't seen those before! But the design parameters make a lot of sense, given my above comments. This is why the OP's primary uses for a machete provide an interesting challenge, as the two main tasks it wood be handling--light vines/brambles and processing wood--are nearly polar opposites of each other. Having the sweet spot closer to the hand helps balance between the two tasks. The closest thing on the market I can think of off the top of my head is the Condor Hog Sticker, which is a bit of an extreme. :)
 
Looks to me like a hybrid between a clip point and a barong where the centerline is slightly off-axis.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Ok--here's a super quick sketch. Point pretty much in line with the center of the grip for good control, forward guard integrated to form a natural choil without loss of edge length, good sweet spot with a mezzo-balance and fast tip. Approximate 18" blade length.

View attachment 254953
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If you make a Barong with a Boomslang handle i'm in!!!!
 
Are you talking about the Condor Boomslang. . .if so I like the handle on that and the blade shape is pretty much what Payette posted earlier (I just Googled Boomslang handle and that's what came up).
 
I'm willing to bet there are multiple fulcrum points in a steel machete that would be considered 'sweet spots'-multiple oscilations within the length of a 14-16 inch machete when force is applied. Steel is so much more rigid than a wooden baseball bat that the wave traveling the length of the blade would be much shorter-but what do I know, I study the humanities, not physics. I'm not huge on the Barong design just because the widest, most efficient chopping point doesn't use the full available length of the blade, and I'm not sure just how much more of a precision point you get out of one than out of a well-designed drop or clip.
 
In all honesty i just like the Barong leaf shape blade. I think it's because i've used it in FMA classes and also a cultural thing. It's more a personal preference than a practical thing.
 
PayetteRucker said:
I'm willing to bet there are multiple fulcrum points in a steel machete that would be considered 'sweet spots'-multiple oscilations within the length of a 14-16 inch machete when force is applied. Steel is so much more rigid than a wooden baseball bat that the wave traveling the length of the blade would be much shorter-but what do I know, I study the humanities, not physics. I'm not huge on the Barong design just because the widest, most efficient chopping point doesn't use the full available length of the blade, and I'm not sure just how much more of a precision point you get out of one than out of a well-designed drop or clip.
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The sweet spot is further down on the blade than I'd normally want, also, but given the design requirements it makes the most sense to me at least. The main point of the thin tip at the very end is for the vines and brambles--which have thorns! Therefore you want the extra length to keep you from scraping your knuckles, which isn't as big of a concern when processing wood. While having an 18" blade the piece in my sketch would chop wood more like a 16" machete. Your design would do much better for general wood work and limbing/chopping, but would have a harder time with the light stuff--though it could do it! The shape on mine is determined mostly by the primary need to tackle black/raspberry bushes, followed by wood processing. For more general use, though, having the sweet spot as close to the tip as is realistic is the way to go! :)

P.S. I'm far from infallible and this is just based on my own experience and research, so take it for what it is. :p
 
Yeah that makes sense. One thing is for sure, when it comes to slashing thorny woody or semi-woody plants, you're going to want precision and blade length that draws easily across the vines. That means V grind and belly, belly, belly. The most amount of edge you can put across the material in the smallest swing-that's why I figured having that defined belly at the end made sense. The barong certainly makes the most of its blade length as well.
 
regardless of length, it must not be too heavy so as to freeze your hand after one day's (or even just one morning's) work. i once spent 9 hours hacking through everything from soft grass to tough lianas that just bounce away from the edge.
 
that post mentioning stuff bouncing away from the edge .. reminded me of my problems starting out with a machete

you got to be using the machete right , not chopping with it like an axe , but more like slicing with it .

If you want to chop , as in chop like the same motion as a tomahawk or axe .. you might as well get a tomahawk or axe , you have no need of the extra cutting edge unless your aim sucks

you do far better with a machette if you treat it more like a big knife and when you hit what youre cutting , dont make it a slam into it chop but more of a slice thru it cut , use some of that cutting edge you have . Also dont slam into a branch at 90 degrees to the branch .. youre using a knife , slice into it at like 45 degrees , trim up the nasty angled stumps later if you feel like it .

just some kinda badly explained thoughts .. Im sure someone with a better way to put it can help :) just was thinking about it tho .. technique is going to really affect the knife you use and the performance you get out of it .
 
A chopping motion with an axe combines a full swing combined with a pivoting motion as the leading hand slides down the haft towards the anchored hand. Most machete designs are one handed so the point is kinda moot-there are many different motions for all the different designs. There are multiple designs that accomplish the same main goal, the difference is the ergonomics and performance with different using techniques. With a heavily tapered blade like a golok or a khukri, for example, a 'roll chop' is used where the wrist rotates short and fast. These short fast chops utilize the weight of the blade to sail through material, not the force of a full on swing that a latin machete or bolo would use.
 
I was meaning more when the blade hits the stuff its cutting , a drawing action thru the actual cut , less to do with the swing thru the air to the cut .

If I remember right , I think its called a sabre cut or maybe a draw cut , anyway .. when your are doing the actual cutting , it means youre using a whole lot more blade than if you just chop away like an axe ..

if it were a loaf of bread instead of a branch , a straight chop would probably cut it , but to pull the blade toward you some and put some slice into the action would make it cut that much cleaner and less work to get thru it .. same deal with a branch .. to just chop into it will get it done but putting some slicing action into the cutting , and it makes it a whole lot easier .

I am not great at explaining this in words , I will try to get a video done of it in the next week or so ( school just gone back and things are chaotic at the moment here )
 
Using the slicing action of the blade as it draws across green vegetation? Absolutely, with the right tool and the right material.
 
PayetteRucker said:
Using the slicing action of the blade as it draws across green vegetation? Absolutely, with the right tool and the right material.
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this I agree with

I use a machete daily unfortunately ( dam kids pet goat and their lack of ability to remember to get it food ) .. that bit of slice in the chop or using a drawcut makes a branch that would take 3 or 4 whacks at into a one shot deal . It also makes bamboos that can be dam stubborn and just spring back at you kinda just fall over . Its my experience anyway ...

why I mention it at all is the OP bought a machete , had a whack at stuff with it and it sucked more or less . I have seen people using my tools that I know are sharp and work well ( for me at least ) , have similar results , not because the tools suck but because the operator had not spent the time to get familiar with them or learn how to use them .
 
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