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Protect? :yawn: eh, a bull mastiff and a wolfhound would easily make short work of that little kitty!
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What size folder for Cougar?
- Thread starter Codger_64
- Start date
Protect? :yawn: eh, a bull mastiff and a wolfhound would easily make short work of that little kitty!
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I've seen a mountain lion on cliff faces do consecutive 15 foot vertical leaps. They are strong as hell. Unless your dog is cerebus I doubt it would stand a chance. Mountain lions are ambush predators so a straight fight isn't what they are looking for. they survive by stealth, not brawn.
And my choice for lion defense would be a 454 casull.
And my choice for lion defense would be a 454 casull.
I have seen a 10 lb house cat nearly tear apart a full sized Shepard. The dog lost an eye and needed major stitches in its face. That was a house cat. It walked away unharmed.
Lets do the math shall we hmmmm....
No dog alive big mean trained or otherwise, sorry.
Skam
Lets do the math shall we hmmmm....
No dog alive big mean trained or otherwise, sorry.
Skam
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And I have seen a full sized shepard tear apart a tomcat no problem. Are you saying the former poster was wrong when stated that there were 2 attacks that the dog was responsible for saving (or helping to save) the persons life??
Never say never!
Never say never!
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A folder???
Codger_64
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It's been done. A 61 year old man with a Buck 110 in fact.
http://cougarinfo.org/lionpics/dparkpic.html
Look at 01 August:
http://www.cougarinfo.com/attacks3.htm
http://cougarinfo.org/lionpics/dparkpic.html
Look at 01 August:
http://www.cougarinfo.com/attacks3.htm
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Years ago I was visiting a friend who lived rather out or the way. This guy was the typical mid-west, corn fed, 6 foot plus, 300 lbs biker. Now the big man had this dog that was about 3 pounds of something mixed with Chihuahua. A bad mix at that, like rat or something. The but-ugly little thing reminded me of a moldy potato with teeth. But the Big guy loved that little dog and claimed that it was "the baddest dog in the world". We usually just let him ramble on when he said something like that and tried to changed the subject. It was late and Bigman went to the door to let the dog out. I said to him "not worried about something eating your dog?" I was thinking that a cat or a weasel could take that little thing. "nah", he said "thats the baddest dog in the world". A bit later there was a racket in the yard and the Bigman exploded toward the door, on the way snatching up a 12 gage pump. Buy the time I had followed to the door two shots had rang out. When I looked out side there were two well dead coyotes laying on the ground with that speck of a dog chewing and growling all over them. My friend was replacing the two shells when he repeated to all who could hear "thats the baddest dog in the world". And seeing as the evidence was on the ground, and the Browning was still in hand I just agreed with him.
Just thought I'd share.
Bikermikearchery
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IMHO a sentence like that screams "I'm trying to be intelligent." Is all that really necessary? Give me a break.
Well your damned if you do and damned if you don't, keep on trucking Cuchy.
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I used to have an Akita that would have lasted longer than 3 seconds....atleast 30! LOL. But he weighed 135lbs..and they were bred to fight tigers. (albeit, in packs!)
I have to say that a mountain lion is one tough animal, but dogs are bred to kill wild animals..usually in packs, but dogs can fight extremely hard...and if pushed, will fight well past the point of them living the encounter out. Every wild animal in North America will run from dogs...they know that it means only bad things when a pack attacks.
JUST for the record...I would bet on the CAt...lol.
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I think what the dog brings to the table in mountain lion country is an extra set of eyes and ears (and sharper than ours!) that may help to spot the cat before it attacks. After all, as has been noted, a cat is an ambush predator. If you can't see it coming you aren't going to be able to defend against it. Seeing it coming may make all the difference in the world.
Most of the time yes, but thats not what we, or at least I, am talking about.
Its not what I believe, its what is fact. Your average mountain lion here in southern cali is nowhere near the size of that cat in the pic. There are PLENTY of examples of people alone fighting off these cats. Add a dog into the equation and dinner for the cat is not inevitable.
Add to that a trained dog preferably something around the 100lb mark and the scale tips even further.
Like I said, we aren't talking about a dog/cat cage match. We are talking about the odds of me and my pooch surviving an attack. I promise you that my dog, if not most, will get the cats attention. Likely enough to encourage it enough to find dinner elsewhere.
And, as someone else mentioned, having a dog just may very well stop the attack from ever starting, or at least give you warning.
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You do know what my wife calls our two Dogs when she goes into the woods with them,
BATE
(for real)
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I damn well will tell you that! I don't have any illusions that my Akita would best a Cougar, even a small one - but she doesn't have to. A dog in this situation is pretty much a "sacrificial anode." First, she has better senses than I do, so she possibly will alert me before it is too late. Second, she will likely draw the initial attack or interfere if I am the subject of the cat's attack.
This will give me some time to deploy whatever weapon I have at my disposal. I think this significantly swings the odds in my favor. Your claim that a dog would only buy a person three seconds is ridiculous. From reading about mountain lion attacks on dogs, it is possible that a cougar could best a dog in that time, but that is not to say the cat would be ready to leave the dog that quickly to engage another target. It is more likely that it would want to abscond with it's prize and be done with the engagement.
Mountain Lions are hunted with dogs all the time. The trick is to not rely on one big dog, but rather a swarm of little(ish) ones.
Then again, I'd rather be eaten by a cougar than share the woods with a pack of yappy dogs! -- FLIX
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Hardly an original idea, but I have a folding 12 ga.
Years ago, I lived for 18 months on a ranch near Beatty, Nevada (strange lights in the sky every once and a while). The 18 pound barn tom terrorized the two Shepards with hit-and-run attacks. The dogs would get hit and the cat would run up a tree. Eventually, they wouldn't nap in the heat of the day except in the screen porch where "Evinrude" couldn't get at them. When he'd yowl, they'd twitch. They had NO interest in the lynx that came around to snack on a dead cow. Wouldn't leave the yard.
I don't say those Shepards were the most aggressive of the breed. Don't know. But I wouldn't want a dog I liked tangling with a whirl of 20 razor-sharp claws and dozens of sharp teeth. Maybe a pet wolverine.
12 ga.
Years ago, I lived for 18 months on a ranch near Beatty, Nevada (strange lights in the sky every once and a while
). The 18 pound barn tom terrorized the two Shepards with hit-and-run attacks. The dogs would get hit and the cat would run up a tree. Eventually, they wouldn't nap in the heat of the day except in the screen porch where "Evinrude" couldn't get at them. When he'd yowl, they'd twitch. They had NO interest in the lynx that came around to snack on a dead cow. Wouldn't leave the yard.I don't say those Shepards were the most aggressive of the breed. Don't know. But I wouldn't want a dog I liked tangling with a whirl of 20 razor-sharp claws and dozens of sharp teeth. Maybe a pet wolverine.
12 ga.
STAGE 2 - "Its not what I believe, its what is fact. Your average mountain lion here in southern cali is nowhere near the size of that cat in the pic."
Stage 2, I'm well aware of the mountain lions in the southern Calif. area. I lived in Los Angeles for 35 years. Yes, some are definitely smaller than the one in the posted picture. Don't ever think that a healthy 110 pound mountain lion can't tear you... and your pooch to pieces.
On the other hand, you don't have to go far from L.A. to get into country where there are some very large mountain lions.
From 1969 through 2000, I owned a vacation home up in the Sierra, western slope, southern Tulare County, right next to the Sequoia Nat'l. Forest boundary. I have seen three, that were within 20/25 pounds +/-, of that lion in the picture, and that one was a pound or so below 200. I was within about six feet of one and about ten feet of the other. The third I saw when I was hunting in the Shirley Meadows area up in the Greenhorn mountains in Kern County. He was at the edge of an old burn about 90 yards or so from me.
I firmly believe that any one of those three could kill a single dog without any trouble. Don't forget, a mountain lion, from the moment it is weaned, is learning to hunt and kill, or later, hunting and killing to eat and survive, and feed its kits.
A domestic pet dog, although perhaps a good scrapper, has NEVER had to kill to eat and survive, and to feed its pups. Each morning and night, its owner puts a nice plate of food down for it. Not one thought of survival. Therefore, even though a regular dog might well be up for the fight, his instincts will not be nearly as sharp as a lion's that has been a hunter/killer for thousands of years, each and every day.
There is a difference, whether or not one wishes to believe it.
I'm certainly not against taking your pooch out with you when bustin' the boonies. Perhaps a dog with its better eyesight, nose, and hearing, might give you a warning of an approaching, or nearby mountain lion. But to think that the dog is going to win a fight against a big lion is illusionary.
I've always carried a good handgun, or a rifle. I would not want to depend on a folding knife for fighting a lion.
FWIW.
L.W.
Stage 2, I'm well aware of the mountain lions in the southern Calif. area. I lived in Los Angeles for 35 years. Yes, some are definitely smaller than the one in the posted picture. Don't ever think that a healthy 110 pound mountain lion can't tear you... and your pooch to pieces.
On the other hand, you don't have to go far from L.A. to get into country where there are some very large mountain lions.
From 1969 through 2000, I owned a vacation home up in the Sierra, western slope, southern Tulare County, right next to the Sequoia Nat'l. Forest boundary. I have seen three, that were within 20/25 pounds +/-, of that lion in the picture, and that one was a pound or so below 200. I was within about six feet of one and about ten feet of the other. The third I saw when I was hunting in the Shirley Meadows area up in the Greenhorn mountains in Kern County. He was at the edge of an old burn about 90 yards or so from me.
I firmly believe that any one of those three could kill a single dog without any trouble. Don't forget, a mountain lion, from the moment it is weaned, is learning to hunt and kill, or later, hunting and killing to eat and survive, and feed its kits.
A domestic pet dog, although perhaps a good scrapper, has NEVER had to kill to eat and survive, and to feed its pups. Each morning and night, its owner puts a nice plate of food down for it. Not one thought of survival. Therefore, even though a regular dog might well be up for the fight, his instincts will not be nearly as sharp as a lion's that has been a hunter/killer for thousands of years, each and every day.
There is a difference, whether or not one wishes to believe it.
I'm certainly not against taking your pooch out with you when bustin' the boonies. Perhaps a dog with its better eyesight, nose, and hearing, might give you a warning of an approaching, or nearby mountain lion. But to think that the dog is going to win a fight against a big lion is illusionary.
I've always carried a good handgun, or a rifle. I would not want to depend on a folding knife for fighting a lion.
FWIW.
L.W.
Leanwolf, you are still missing the point.
No one is arguing that a big cat isn't a problem. Even a "tiny" 110 lb one. What I and others are arguing is that having a dog, regardless of the breed, is a huge help and is probably enough to get the cats attention.
Also, this idea that the second the cat pounces the dog is done for is also not supported by facts. Regular old house dogs have survived attacks, sometimes with help from owners but sometimes not.
While I agree with you that a wild animal has an advantage simply because its doing what its done its entire life, you minimize the ability of dogs far too much. If you've never seen what a police dog can do to perp flesh you might want to look into that. Carry this over to a soft spot such as a throat or the neck and things get interesting. Furthermore, while my dog is domesticated, its still a pack animal that for thousands of years did live in the wild and did hunt.
Like I said, the facts are there. Dogs and owners have survived big cat attacks.
No one is arguing that a big cat isn't a problem. Even a "tiny" 110 lb one. What I and others are arguing is that having a dog, regardless of the breed, is a huge help and is probably enough to get the cats attention.
Also, this idea that the second the cat pounces the dog is done for is also not supported by facts. Regular old house dogs have survived attacks, sometimes with help from owners but sometimes not.
While I agree with you that a wild animal has an advantage simply because its doing what its done its entire life, you minimize the ability of dogs far too much. If you've never seen what a police dog can do to perp flesh you might want to look into that. Carry this over to a soft spot such as a throat or the neck and things get interesting. Furthermore, while my dog is domesticated, its still a pack animal that for thousands of years did live in the wild and did hunt.
Like I said, the facts are there. Dogs and owners have survived big cat attacks.
JTR357
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HEy Codger!
Do you still have a link to that story about a man canoeing in Canuck land I think, when he gets to land, he takes his canoe and dog up the trail and the bear attacks him only to get intercepted by his dog?
As to the debate the rages on...
If you take you dog into the woods and basically keep the idea that he is bait, wouldn't you run into the same suituation with why we don't put women on the front line? I know that if a lion ran up on my pooch, it would not be a fight or flight situation. Instead it would turn into self defense akin to walking in on someone assaulting my wife.
(Cuchuga, I kept the collegiate word count low for ya brah.); }
Do you still have a link to that story about a man canoeing in Canuck land I think, when he gets to land, he takes his canoe and dog up the trail and the bear attacks him only to get intercepted by his dog?
As to the debate the rages on...
If you take you dog into the woods and basically keep the idea that he is bait, wouldn't you run into the same suituation with why we don't put women on the front line? I know that if a lion ran up on my pooch, it would not be a fight or flight situation. Instead it would turn into self defense akin to walking in on someone assaulting my wife.
(Cuchuga, I kept the collegiate word count low for ya brah.); }