What size folder for Cougar?

"Where you are located relevant to how much time is spent within a predators range (habitat) also factor in time of year, precip to date, if there has been a fire or other event that takes away said range, encroachment of civilization and natural prey counts over the course of a duration. "

That is a good point!

"Where I live I have seen a cat in my yard, last year at 430am it was big and within 20 yards of the backdoor. Who hasn't seen a killsite that spends a fair amount of time in the wilds of either a bear, coyotes or mountain lion. They are there and as a tender pink skin bags of 150-250lbs of pork like goodness without weapons, we are prey."

How many attacks have you survived Chef? Know anyone attacked?

I love stories about bad ass Tom cats beating up on poor old dogs. My dad had a treeing feist that weighed 12 pounds. He used to kill feral cats all the time, dozens of them over the years. My Grandmother had a little white Spitz that had a psycho streak- it was a cat serial killer. It weighed about 20 pounds. My buddy has a Jack Russell that also has a streak of Kitty Killer in it. Tore the last one literally into 3 pieces. When the dog is playing and the cat ain't, things might go down differently.

I have tons of respect for ANY wild cat, but they are not programed to stand and fight. THey are hit and run and ambush experts. Dogs run down prey and drag it down. Different abilities shine in different ways. From behind and above, a bobcat can very possibly kill a mastiff- maybe. A cougar certainly could. In a stand up fight, cats DO NOT fight. They slap and run- and it is on that turning away that a dog can do its job. Now, the problem for the dog is getting its guts ripped out by the hind claws!

It is not about how "tough" a species is percieved to be, it is about how they approach a particular problem paired with how they are constructed.
 
Holy Moley! I didn't think they got that big. Wonder how the backstraps are on that thing.
I think that that nice kitty would make a nice Christmas present for my Ex-wife.:D
 
Horse said:
How many attacks have you survived Chef? Know anyone attacked?
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None.

I don't know any person that has been attacked but going on three weeks ago, there was an attack on a feral dog (Coulda been a German Shepherd) about a 1/2 mile down the road. My neighbor down there called my wife when it was going on, she said someone was getting murdered (she is prone to overeacting a bit :o) it was about 7pm. I jumped in the truck and by the time I got there the cat was gone and the nose of the dog was to. It was a mess.

Sorry if I came off like someone who has a mountain lion pelt for a vest and a paw skin hat. I just don't believe in stat analysis unless it really is centered on relevant intel.
 
Horse;5160725 I love stories about bad ass Tom cats beating up on poor old dogs. I have tons of respect for ANY wild cat said:
ASk your vet how many dogs needed serious medical care due to a house cat? Sure a house cat can be killed, they also inflict damage.

Multiply that 15 fold. A cat will defend itself if cornered. If this is the case there isn't a dog in the world that will come out alive from a medium sized cougar. Bring your dog to the zoo and stick them in a cage with a large cat.:rolleyes:

I think it is funny how people equate their domesticated dogs to wild animals.

Go bait your dog near a cougar and see what happens. Fact is you and your dog are on the menu if the cat chooses.

Skam
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Pound-for-pound, (generally speaking) cats are the toughest customers around.
The only thing having your pooch around, is that "Spike" will give you a few seconds to put your ass in gear to grab your firearm and take care of business.
 
Your right Skammer a single dog does not stand a chance against a cougar other than to slow it down a bit, your wrong on everything else. Cougars are looking for easy meals and will not stand and fight, most will run from an agressive, yapping ankle biter.

You, from all your posts, have no respect for a dogs fighting ability which tells me you are ignorant on the subject. True, most mutts are just pot lickers looking for a hand out or to get scratched behind the ears, do not make the mistake of lumping all dogs into this category.

I have been hunting with dogs for 30 years and right now have a pair of 30lb Mtn Curs that there is not a house cat on the planet that can whip either and certainly not both. I don't believe that a full grown bobcat would whip the pair, cause damage yes, kill no, one on one maybe. These dogs have had full grown coons jump out of the tree and they catch it on the ground, bare in mind they only weigh about 30lbs each, they turn the coon into shredded meat and guts before I can get them off. I have hunted hogs with Pit catch dogs and have seen with my own eyes what 2 or 3 can do to a 200 pound hog with 3 or 4" cutters.

The right dog, with enough pluck and fight in him, can definitely, with out a shadow of a doubt give you enough time to get your pistol out. Chris

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An American woman has told the incredible story of how she fought off a mountain lion to save her 70-year-old husband's life when it attacked him in a Californian state park.



Nell Hamm, 65, speaking from the hospital bedside where her husband Jim is recovering from a torn scalp and puncture wounds, described the terrifying moment that she turned round to see her husband's head was clamped in the lion's jaws.

"He didn't scream. It was a different, horrible plea for help, and I turned around, and by then the cat had wrestled Jim to the ground," she said.

The couple, who celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary next month, were hiking in Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park this week when the mountain lion - also known as a puma or cougar - pounced.

Mrs Hamm, 65, immediately grabbed a four-inch-wide log and began to beat the animal with it, but it would not let go of its hold on her husband's head.

She said: "Jim was talking to me all through this, and he said, 'I've got a pen in my pocket and get the pen and jab him in the eye.

"So I got the pen and tried to put it in his eye, but it didn't want to go in as easy as I thought it would."

The pen bent and became useless, so Mrs Hamm picked up the log again and clubbed the lion.

Eventually it let go and, with blood on its snout, stood staring at her. She screamed and waved the log until the cat walked away.

Mrs Hamm said that she was scared to leave her husband alone because he wasdazed and bleeding badly, so she walked him 400 metres to a trail where she gathered branches to protect them if more lions came and waited until a ranger passed by.

"My concern was to get Jim out of there," she said. "I told him, 'Get up, get up, walk,' and he did.

"We fought harder than we ever have to save his life, and we fought together."

Mr Hamm is recovering from his ordeal and was described by the hospital as in a fair condition yesterday.

He has undergone surgery for lacerations to his head and body and has had to have his lips stitched back on to his face.

Park rangers told the couple that if Mrs Hamm had not been with her husband he would have not survived the attack.

Steve Martarano, a spokesman for the Department of Fish and Game, said: "She saved his life, there is no doubt about it."

Following the attack on Wednesday, game wardens closed the park, which is about 320 miles (515km) north of San Francisco and released hounds to track the mountain lion.

They shot and killed one lion late that day and another lion yesterday that were found near the trail where the attack happened. Both carcasses have been flown to a state forensics lab where tests will determine whether either animal mauled Mr Hamm

So the moral of the story is, you don't need a dog, just a 65 year old woman.
 
What folder for Cougars? i think you need to forget about the folder. Cougars usually respond better to well groomed finger nails and a sweet, yet low key cologne. :D
 
runningboar said:
Your right Skammer a single dog does not stand a chance against a cougar other than to slow it down a bit, your wrong on everything else. Cougars are looking for easy meals and will not stand and fight, most will run from an agressive, yapping ankle biter.
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Agreed, cats are skittish and fighting is not what they are about, I never said otherwise. My point was simply a dog and a cougar in a room the cat walks out.

I am fully aware of fighting dogs as I live in one of the largest fighting dog breeding zones for North America. I personally have 3 K9 police officers as friends and the family have trained hunting dogs for 3 generations.

Its not ignorance its first hand experience in what dogs are all about. When K9 cops are in the back bush with the shepards they worry about 2 things around here. Mountain Lions and traps.

Skam
 
STAGE 2 - " Leanwolf, you are still missing the point.

No one is arguing that a big cat isn't a problem. Even a "tiny" 110 lb one. What I and others are arguing is that having a dog, regardless of the breed, is a huge help and is probably enough to get the cats attention."


Stage 2, how am I missing the point?? In Post 56, I wrote ...

"I'm certainly not against taking your pooch out with you when bustin' the boonies. Perhaps a dog with its better eyesight, nose, and hearing, might give you a warning of an approaching, or nearby mountain lion. But to think that the dog is going to win a fight against a big lion is illusionary."

BTW, lion and bear guides -- and I know several and have hunted with two different lion/bear outfitters -- DO NOT hunt lions with only one dog. They run several, sometimes up to eight, depending on conditions and terrain.

A friend of mine who lives in the Sierra had his very healthy, six year old Golden Retriever killed by a mountain lion. My friend heard the dog scream, ran outside and the lion was dragging the dead dog into the manzanita bushes. The dog didn't stand a chance when the lion hit it.

Oh well.... everyone has a different opinion. That is what makes horse races, right?

L.W.
 
"Cougars are looking for easy meals and will not stand and fight, most will run from an agressive, yapping ankle biter."

dingdingding! We have a winner!
 
That's it. I'm trading some of my knives for a pack of...crazy inbred che-wa-was!:D
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Codger :thumbup:
 
My buddy breeds American bulldogs, he uses them for hog hunting, and family watch dogs, and for his wife and kids to watch over them while he is at work. He lives up in Kennedy Meadows, his back yard is Mt Lion territory. One night we were BBQing and heard a bark then a crash, we thought some poor yote made the mistake of traveling in the yard. We grabbed some lights and ran to the back of the property, I could not believe what I heard, the loudest damn scream you could imagine.

Once we got there, there was his 110 pound American Bulldog (boogie man) killing a Mt Lion, had it pinned and was knawing on this cats head, Boogie then started shaking the cat by its head and neck, we were about 40 yards away, Jack yelled at Boogie to cease, Boogie let go and that cat ran, stumbled away, he picked the wrong meal to try and eat. We found the cat the next day, part of his skull was crushed from Boogie man chomping on it.

I have no doubt, a strong and powerful dog with game in him, can stand toe to toe with a Mt Lion. Boogie man is 110 pounds, and as quick as a jack rabbit, and so damn strong its not even funny.
 
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/mountainlion.asp

Hey guys - here is Snopes description of that big cat. 190 lbs. The guy is 5'10"....taken with a 30-06, 165gr.

I've seen a cat up close and personal before (at about 12'), but it only stood about 2' at the shoulder. I can tell you, that's an awful lot of claws and fur to contend with, even at the small size I saw.

Cheers,
D
 
OK, back on topic...

Katdaddy said:
...
She said: "Jim was talking to me all through this, and he said, 'I've got a pen in my pocket and get the pen and jab him in the eye.

"So I got the pen and tried to put it in his eye, but it didn't want to go in as easy as I thought it would."

The pen bent and became useless, so Mrs Hamm picked up the log again and clubbed the lion.

...
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So if one of them had had a decent folder, what might have happened?

She obviously had the time to try and stab the cat in the eye with a pen from her husband's pocket, so don't you think she could have easily taken a knife out and cut the cat's throat? I know most of you have folding knives that are plenty sharp to cut kitty's neck open, right? :p

And maybe if they would have had a lap dog with them (we all know older people don't own real dogs), maybe the lion would have gotten annoyed at all the yipping and left them alone too. ;)
 
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