What specific knife features do you require on a Bush Craft Knife?

[Wabajack]

folding knives are a compromise on many levels, and only on two levels can they ever even hope to compete with a fixed blade of equal quality: size and weight. And where size and weight - and even in these the differences aren't always that large - isn't critically important, there's no reason to carry a folder over a fixed blade. Of course, some people just like folders. Nothing wrong with that, as long as one knows the limitations of said tools.

Agreed.

I still find a folder all I need though. So *sometimes* I ditch the fixed blade for shorter trips, on longer outings for multiple weeks though the fixed blade is far to handy to want to leave behind.

 

[Fletcher Knives]

Fixed blade, sharp, keeps its edge until I'm done, not too big, nothing fancy. Those are my only requirements.

 

[Elen]

Until, of course, you are hypothermic and rapidly losing fine motor skills. Been there, done that.

Well, generally speaking, it's a good idea to avoid hypothermia. It can be quite lethal. At least bring and wear gloves if at all possible. Not only do they help keep those hands warm, they do help quite a bit against any possible accidental cuts. As I see it, at the point that you're so hypothermic you can't hold a knife right, it's unlikely that a finger guard will save you from butchering yourself with any sharp instrument available (but then, I've often been accused of pessimism). I've spent quite a bit of time in cold environments in my life, and haven't seen nor heard of anyone who, while hypothermic, cut themselves up with their guardless knife, but perhaps it does happen elsewhere in the universe. Whatever the case, experience is certainly the best teacher - if you find guards work for you, then you should probably use knives with guards, and vice versa for those more inclined to go without guards. It's a free world. :thumbup:

Many of us, myself included, have used both designs. If choil - less works for you, great. The choil allows me to get much closer to my work (notice how I haven't said anything about guards). I can use a much narrower pinch grip than if I am gripping the handle, whether the blade goes all the way to the guard or not.

I've got no problem with you having a different conclusion - but don't present it as fact. It's opinion, just like mine.

Yes, I noticed you didn't mention guards, and it does leave me a little confused (perhaps that's no surprise though, since a lot of my mates claim I was born confused and will likely die that way too ).

I mean, let's assume I have a basic puukko, no ricasso, no guard, no choil at all. Let's assume I have it in my hand, and I'm gripping it right at the blade side end of the handle, because I intend to do some precision carving work. The distance between the cutting edge and my hand is somewhere between 0 and 1 millimeters. This is the part where I'm confused. If my knife had a choil on it, exactly how would it be able to bring my grip any closer to my work, and indeed the cutting edge? How do you get any closer than being right bloody next to something? You can't, that's how, and this is why what I've repeatedly stated about choils is in fact, uh, a fact. It's not an opinion, my friend.

Now, of course, like any fact, it applies only within a set of parameters. It's a fact that a year has 12 months - on Earth, that is. On some other planets it may be quite different, again, in fact. Similarly, a knife that has no ricasso, no choil and no guards will in fact allow the best possible grip for precision, as near to the cutting edge as is humanly possible - but only within certain parameters. And in this case, it all depends on the width of the blade in relation to the handle. The choilless, guardless knife design with no ricasso allows the best grip only if the handle and blade are of similar width. If the blade is much wider than the handle, then a choil will in fact enable you to move your grip closer to your work and the cutting edge of the blade, and in fact will help increase precision. Of course, in such blades, the cost is the loss of ergonomics (because gripping awkwardly shaped metal just isn't quite as comfortable as gripping a less awkwardly shaped handle not made of metal), and in that sense, knives with blades notably wider than the handles aren't perhaps the best choice for prolonged work that requires precision. So, when I refer to the detrimental effects of choils on precision and ergonomics, I'm talking about knives that have blades and handles of roughly similar width. I probably should've mentioned that much earlier. Another thing that I should probably remember to mention more often is that this applies only to knives that are made for precision work. If the knife is a blade heavy chopper, then a choil is certainly useful to have, because it allows you to move your grip closer to the balance point of the blade, making the blade feel less heavy in hand during any smaller tasks. In large blades, the "best" part of the blade is typically somewhere roughly in the middle of the cutting edge, much like it is with kukris, because that's the part most likely to be impacting whatever it is that you're chopping. But on small knives, in which the best part of the edge is always the one nearest to your grip, a choil is trouble. Rant over.

 

[jdm61]

My experiences with (single-edged, as double-edged are right out) spear points aren't very good. They seem to make tip work harder than it needs to be, but perhaps that is because I'm much more used to a normal point from a flat spine.

As for americanized tanto tips as chisels, not really my cup of tea. If I wanted a chisel I'd carry one, but I need the knife to have a usable tip with a proper curve, which is something the americanized tanto certainly does not have.



Yeah, have seen a lot of them, but rounded or not, they still cause sticking - which is really no wonder, seeing how they're essentially an enormous dent in the cutting edge. The sticking isn't really the main problem that choils cause, though. As for the small sharpening choils, they shouldn't be there either, in my opinion, but I can't really make them disappear from knife design, now can I. Fortunately, there are many knives that have neither the larger finger choils nor the smaller sharpening choils. As far as guards are concerned, there's no such image that could convince me that guards are needed on all knives. Sure, if you're going to be stabbing people with that knife, then it should have a guard or two. If you're just going to use it in general utility, a guard does hinder performance, but if it makes you feel safe... I've used guardless knives all my life, like my forefathers before me, and I've never managed to cut myself in any way that a guard would have prevented. But then, different strokes for different folks.

How about a picture of a guy who mangled his hand whilst skinning some kind of beastie? As for hindering perfromance, I guess all of thsoe folks who have been using knives based on the desgins of Bob Loveless have been "hindered" all of these years? And precisely what would a rounded choil get stuck in?

 

[Elen]

How about a picture of a guy who mangled his hand whilst skinning some kind of beastie? As for hindering perfromance, I guess all of thsoe folks who have been using knives based on the desgins of Bob Loveless have been "hindered" all of these years? And precisely what would a rounded choil get stuck in?

I feel sorry for that guy. Maybe he should've been more careful. So far, I haven't managed to mangle up my hand while skinning, nor has anyone else around here that I know. Some people are more accident prone than others, and like I said, if one feels they need a guard, they probably do need one.

It's certainly obvious that no one part in a knife's design determines its performance - performance is a sum of the parts that affect it. A knife can have a choil and still be a good knife and perform well. But a small knife will perform better without a choil, if it has a handle roughly the same width as the blade. So, sure, big name knifemakers have made knives that would have performed better without choils. There's quite a number of examples of this that I have in mind, including some small knives that I like. That in itself, however, is not to say their knives don't perform at all, or well. Quite often you can improve on a good thing.

 

[sodak]

How do you get any closer than being right bloody next to something? You can't, that's how, and this is why what I've repeatedly stated about choils is in fact, uh, a fact. It's not an opinion, my friend.

Ok, I think I see from your post where you are coming from, but it's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Take, for example, my Fehrman Peacemaker. When I choke up on it with a pinch grip, I have my index finger in the choil, and other 3 fingers behind the guard on the handle. Both the leading edge on the choil and the trailing edge of the guard act as a "stop" for my hand. I can also place my thumb on the spine either directly behind the choil or slightly in front of it.

When I'm handling, oh, say a "choil - less" knife, I can still place my thumb on the spine in front of my index finger, but when it is behind (I mean even with) my index finger, the handle forces my hand apart *much* more than a pinch grip on the choil does. This leads to a big loss (in my opinion) of cutting precision and also happens to aggrevate an old elbow injury.

I can also get my index finger right up to the edge of the edge on a choil, but on a handle, if it's that close, there's always a risk of slippage when that close, especially when wet and/or bloody. I've yet to see a knife where the edge seamlessly transitioned into the handle. Generally, the handle bumps out wider, putting the fingers farther away from the edge. I've seen several people that fancied themselves outdoorsmen that slipped and had to drive for stitches.

In theory, I agree that choils can get hung up on what you are cutting, but in practice, I've seldom had it happen to me, and I've processed quite a few animals both in the field and back in the garage. For me, the pros **greatly** outweigh the cons. YMMV.

As for hypothermia, obviously it's not something that you plan for, but accidents can and do happen, no matter how experienced you are. Murphy never sleeps....

 

[C_Claycomb]

It seems to be a really hard to pin down thing. Why it is that the Finns, Swedes, and Norwegians, all of whom have hunting traditions and all of whom live where there is not generally a shortage of cold and snow, have a tradition of knives without guards while hunters and outdoorsmen in the northern parts of the Americas feel it is almost absurdly neglegent not to?
LOL

Actually, looking at the offerings on Ragweed forge, it seems that the Scandinavians do put some form of guard on hunting knives, even if it is just some shaping of the handle. The knives that are almost allways guardless are described as carving knives, craft knives or general carry. The cutting edges do all run closer to the handle than they do on the knives common to the US.

I know a couple guys, very experienced, who regularly choke up on the blade and wrap their fingers around the edge itself for very fine carving work. Rather them than me, but it seems to work for them. I ain't brave enough to try to emulate them despite them offering explanations for why it isn't as dangerous as it looks.



I used to use this knife. It has a 5.75" blade of which 0.75 is ricasso. I used it for lots of game prep and found it excellent for everything I needed to do. It was a lot less good for wood carving and similar craft work. The features that gave control in game prep meant that I lost feel, comfort and control on carving.

I tried putting a ricasso like this on a 4.75 inch blade with a smaller guard and the utility of the design fell apart, both for me and a friend I lent it to.


Sodak,
This is the knife I have carried for the last couple of years. It 5 inches of O-1 and is a nice camp knife, even if it isn't all that pretty. Not a carver and not a hunter, something in between. The handle is not as secure for game prep as the earlier knife, but it cuts feather sticks MUCH better and it battons through green wood (cross grain) better than anything else I have tried to date

As an experiment I am going to try this thing this year. An inch shorter, a little thinner (1/8th), and made of ATS34.

I am a big fan of flat grinds and convex edge! I think the only thing that I am really fussy about is that the handle is comfortable. Too many knives meant for the outdoors seem to come with slab sided handles with barely rounded corners. Not bad for hunting, but they start to wear on you if you have an extended whittling job to do.

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

I could rattle on about my preferences for a woodworking knife, but, I would only echo what Elen has so capably posted better than I could.

A photo is worth many words. This little knife by Rod Garcia is just an excellent woodcraft knife. One of the most comfortable handles that I have ever wrapped my XL hand around. The knife must first be comfortable in my hand or I will have little use for it. The rest is just frosting on the cake.

A new knife (by ML Knives) but certainly becoming a favorite for woodcraft. Though the handle has just a hint of a guard, it is nothing that prevents moving up real close to your work. The handle was made for my hand with nice large palm swells and plenty of length. I can easily work with this knife for a couple of hours without hand fatique or soreness. The blade has a convex grind.

 

[sodak]

Sodak,
This is the knife I have carried for the last couple of years. It 5 inches of O-1 and is a nice camp knife, even if it isn't all that pretty. Not a carver and not a hunter, something in between. The handle is not as secure for game prep as the earlier knife, but it cuts feather sticks MUCH better and it battons through green wood (cross grain) better than anything else I have tried to date

That's a beautiful knife! Thanks for the pic!

One of my favorites is a Nessie in O1 by Scott Gossman, I really like this steel and geometry (the one on the bottom). And no, it doesn't have a @#$#$% choil but I like it anyway! I've got 6 more hours of posting before Elen wakes up and catches me!

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q203/sodak_photos/p1010024.jpg

 

[Myal]

I like a knife that fits my hand nice , and has about a handbreadth of blade for bush work .
Hi carbon steel , or HSS , ( I like HSS a LOT ) and not too thick , 1/8 max

Im not fussy about folder or fixed blade , I do my bush craft at the moment with both , it doesnt worry me .

I like a choil , but not a huge one , its not super important to me .

I like drop points , but I dont mind a straight spine either .

my skillset isnt so narow I have to have a certain knife to fit it , I learned early on crud knives to get a job done within the limits of the knife , and in my experience , all knives have limits .

just my thorts

 

[Elen]

Ok, I think I see from your post where you are coming from, but it's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Take, for example, my Fehrman Peacemaker. When I choke up on it with a pinch grip, I have my index finger in the choil, and other 3 fingers behind the guard on the handle. Both the leading edge on the choil and the trailing edge of the guard act as a "stop" for my hand. I can also place my thumb on the spine either directly behind the choil or slightly in front of it.

When I'm handling, oh, say a "choil - less" knife, I can still place my thumb on the spine in front of my index finger, but when it is behind (I mean even with) my index finger, the handle forces my hand apart *much* more than a pinch grip on the choil does. This leads to a big loss (in my opinion) of cutting precision and also happens to aggrevate an old elbow injury.

I can also get my index finger right up to the edge of the edge on a choil, but on a handle, if it's that close, there's always a risk of slippage when that close, especially when wet and/or bloody. I've yet to see a knife where the edge seamlessly transitioned into the handle. Generally, the handle bumps out wider, putting the fingers farther away from the edge. I've seen several people that fancied themselves outdoorsmen that slipped and had to drive for stitches.

In theory, I agree that choils can get hung up on what you are cutting, but in practice, I've seldom had it happen to me, and I've processed quite a few animals both in the field and back in the garage. For me, the pros **greatly** outweigh the cons. YMMV.

As for hypothermia, obviously it's not something that you plan for, but accidents can and do happen, no matter how experienced you are. Murphy never sleeps....

And I'm awake again!

Well, now, like I said, it's only a fact given certain parameters.

You mention the Fehrman Peacemaker, a knife that has a guard on it. If your knife has a guard that effectively prevents your hand from getting close to the cutting edge as is required for a precision grip, then adding a choil will naturally bring your grip closer to the cutting edge and in so doing increase precision. That in itself is good, but there's a downside: when you choke up on the choil, you have to partly grip the metal of the blade, hardly shaped up to be comfortable in hand for prolonged periods of time, so you lose ergonomics.

So the point to my no choil, no guard, no ricasso ranting is exactly that: with a knife that has none of those, you will be able to both 1) get your hand right next to the cutting edge for precision and 2) still have your grip on the handle instead of the blade for superior ergonomics. That is the issue, and it's a measurable fact: it wouldn't be difficult to measure, in millimeters, the distance of the hand from the cutting edge and the power exerted while cutting, nor would it be hard to measure, roughly, the ergonomic comfort of the grip in prolonged work.

As I say, the choil is a relic feature more derived from swords than work knives. A choil does in fact increase precision with huge chopping knives, and on those it's all good. A choil also increases precision on smaller knives that have guards or extensive ricassos on them, but in these cases, the increase in precision comes packed with a decrease in ergonomics. That's the problem with choils. They will always decrease ergonomics, and won't allow for a grip any more precise than the knife would have if it was relieved of excessive guards and ricassos. The only exception to this I can see are knives with blades much wider than the handles, in which case a choil will allow you to take your grip much closer to the cutting edge for precision, but again, for the price of losing ergonomic comfort.

Some people over here in Finland prefer to have guarded knives for hunting purposes, but a lot use guardless, including myself. The following is one of my favourite user knives, a Tommipuukko made for all kinds of general work from wood working to skinning. I've used it on all manner of things, with bloody hands, cold hands, wet hands, you name it, it's done the job so far. And the precision allowed with this kind of handle and blade configuration is really rather unmatched. If you want to see a seamless transition from the blade to handle, take a look at this. I don't see the handle bumping out wider near the edge...

It's true, of course, that one can easily avoid getting things stuck in the choil - just limit the length of your cuts. But if there is no choil for things to get stuck in, then you don't have to limit your cuts, which I consider a pretty good thing.

The main reason, I believe, with the way Scandinavians generally favour guardless, choilless designs and Americans prefer the exact opposite, with large ricassos, enormous choils and sometimes even double guards, is mainly cultural. Scandinavia has some tens of thousands of years of knife culture (although we didn't exactly have supersteels those thousands of years back, not that we have them today, either ) while the majority of the American population today is descended from people that only came to the continent a couple of hundred years ago, already in the age of firearms. That, I believe, has made Americans in general less passionate about knives than Scandinavians, and less likely to spend a lot of time on learning proper knife use. That, in turn, directly translates into a desire for safety features like guards, ricassos, and even choils as a counterbalance to the hindrances caused by the previously mentioned safety features. Another thing that seems to have affected this is seeing knives as much as weapons as tools, which has caused the addition of swordlike features into knives. Over here, knives have always been tools first, weapons a distant second, and for that reason, even "knife fighters" have avoided adding too many swordlike features to the knives, because that would ruin their performance in the much more common general, non-combat usage. Oh well - the most important thing, as I see it, is to use what feels right for you, while remembering to occasionally experiment in order to, perhaps, find something that works for you even better still. :thumbup:

 

[Fiddleback]

- Fixed blade
- Full tang (preferred, but any good build will do)
- Quality steel (good SS is okay, but I prefer HC)
- 3.25" blade (preferred) but up to 4" is acceptable
- No guard
- Scandi or full flat grind, but convex will do
- 4.25-4.5" handle length
- oval handle shape
- 1/8" thickness max.
- Drop point or spear point or ‘straight’ back of blade/point, as is seen with a lot of scandi-type knives
- No choil
- Edge must be as close to top of handle as possible (4mm~ max.)
- Sharp knife spine for Firesteel
- Simple no-fuss practical K.I.S.S type design. No superfluous design attributes.

I like the Iisakki Aito and Roselli Carpenter as examples.

I prefer convex on the grind, but this sums up what I think.

I agree with Elen on small knives and the choil. They do not increase precision. They move the edge away from the handle which drastically reduces functionality and precision. Doing a good amount of work with your hand gripped on a choil is either dangerous, or uncomfortable, or both.

On a big knife, since I've gotten my Battle Mistress, I see the point. It changes the balance of the knife and allows a lot more uses of the big bulky blade.

 

[Gossman Knives]

When I am doing woodcraft work like, traps, fire making, carving stuff, and making a bow and drill, I prefer a knife with:

1. A deep finger grove and little bit of a guard.
2. Drop point
3. Convex or flat ground
4. Jimping on the thumb ramp
5. Comfortably grippy handle
6. Parrot beak handle
7. 3/16ths thick blade stock



What are some of yours?

The knife in my sig. is my favorite for the jobs you describe. Also works well for big game work.
1) 4" blade 8 1/2" overall.
2) full convex grind/edge
3) Flowing design, no sharp angles or corners
4) Thickness anything from 1/8" to 3/16" width 1"

Scott

 

[sodak]

He's up!

You make some good points, Elen. I think what it boils down to for me (and the "for me" is an important qualifier) is that the closer my thumb and index finger are together, the easier it is for me to do precision work, and less painful on my elbow. So a SAK, for example, is easier than a Battle Mistress - to use 2 extreme examples. But I do see your point about holding steel being less ergonomic than holding the handle.

What I would love to try (I say as I'm backing to the door ) is a Mora #1 with a ricasso. Then I could be gripping a very narrow part of the knife, not the wider handle. But I might get in trouble if I ask for that....

I like that picture. Have any of the traditional Scandinavian knife makers gone to any of the "super" steels just out of curiosity?

Edited to add:

I see Ragnar has a 137, which has a "collar". I'm going to order that one and try it, it might be the "ricasso" that I'm looking for.

 

[Horn Dog]

I like the Bravo-1. I got the Aurora, which is Bark River's "Bushcraft" knife, but I do just as well with the Bravo, and it seems a bit safer. The Wet Enviro Recon is not bad, either. The smaller swamp rat is a good little cutter, too.

 

[Elen]

He's up!

You make some good points, Elen. I think what it boils down to for me (and the "for me" is an important qualifier) is that the closer my thumb and index finger are together, the easier it is for me to do precision work, and less painful on my elbow. So a SAK, for example, is easier than a Battle Mistress - to use 2 extreme examples. But I do see your point about holding steel being less ergonomic than holding the handle.

What I would love to try (I say as I'm backing to the door ) is a Mora #1 with a ricasso. Then I could be gripping a very narrow part of the knife, not the wider handle. But I might get in trouble if I ask for that....

I like that picture. Have any of the traditional Scandinavian knife makers gone to any of the "super" steels just out of curiosity?

Edited to add:

I see Ragnar has a 137, which has a "collar". I'm going to order that one and try it, it might be the "ricasso" that I'm looking for.

Ah, I didn't notice the elbow injury part! Sorry about that. :foot: That changes things a lot: injuries can force us to doing things quite differently from "normal." I know this one guy who almost completely lost his index finger in an accident involving a large saw blade and lots of alcohol, and you see him use some pretty unorthodox grips at times with a knife, and pretty much all other tools for that matter. With injuries, one just has to experiment to find out what feels best and doesn't annoy the injuries further and cause pain. I do see your point now - if there's an injured hand or arm involved, then the ergonomic requirements may be very different from those lucky enough to have no injuries.

As for super steels, very few makers have decided to use them here. Most stick to good old tried and true high carbon steels. Some, like Hankala, though, do make some knives in the older and more tested supersteels like ATS-34 and RWL-34, and some do damascus work. Generally, though, what you get in Scandis is high carbon steel.

 

[tarmix101]

Forged carbon steel

3 1/2 " cutting edge

Weight about 3 lb in total

Handle about 19 - 24" in length

Straight grain hickory is best for me

ohhhhhh wait, we are talking about Bush KNIVES.

OK.

1. Blade not to exceed 4-1/2".
2. Straight carbon, or tool steel. Not D2 for me. Can't sharpen it, but O1 and A2 are great.
3. Canvas or linen micarta scales over full tang.
4. Slight drop point.
5. Sharp spear type point for drilling
6. Full flat, convex, or scandi grind.
7. Blade between 1/8" and 3/16" maximum

Too be honest, I would rather have a good axe/hatchet, and a Vic 'Farmer' in my pocket.

The Bravo 1, with it's thick blade is proving me wrong in certain areas here, but I still feel a thinner blade stock is better for all around bush chores.

 

[jdm61]

And I'm awake again!

Well, now, like I said, it's only a fact given certain parameters.

You mention the Fehrman Peacemaker, a knife that has a guard on it. If your knife has a guard that effectively prevents your hand from getting close to the cutting edge as is required for a precision grip, then adding a choil will naturally bring your grip closer to the cutting edge and in so doing increase precision. That in itself is good, but there's a downside: when you choke up on the choil, you have to partly grip the metal of the blade, hardly shaped up to be comfortable in hand for prolonged periods of time, so you lose ergonomics.

So the point to my no choil, no guard, no ricasso ranting is exactly that: with a knife that has none of those, you will be able to both 1) get your hand right next to the cutting edge for precision and 2) still have your grip on the handle instead of the blade for superior ergonomics. That is the issue, and it's a measurable fact: it wouldn't be difficult to measure, in millimeters, the distance of the hand from the cutting edge and the power exerted while cutting, nor would it be hard to measure, roughly, the ergonomic comfort of the grip in prolonged work.

As I say, the choil is a relic feature more derived from swords than work knives. A choil does in fact increase precision with huge chopping knives, and on those it's all good. A choil also increases precision on smaller knives that have guards or extensive ricassos on them, but in these cases, the increase in precision comes packed with a decrease in ergonomics. That's the problem with choils. They will always decrease ergonomics, and won't allow for a grip any more precise than the knife would have if it was relieved of excessive guards and ricassos. The only exception to this I can see are knives with blades much wider than the handles, in which case a choil will allow you to take your grip much closer to the cutting edge for precision, but again, for the price of losing ergonomic comfort.

Some people over here in Finland prefer to have guarded knives for hunting purposes, but a lot use guardless, including myself. The following is one of my favourite user knives, a Tommipuukko made for all kinds of general work from wood working to skinning. I've used it on all manner of things, with bloody hands, cold hands, wet hands, you name it, it's done the job so far. And the precision allowed with this kind of handle and blade configuration is really rather unmatched. If you want to see a seamless transition from the blade to handle, take a look at this. I don't see the handle bumping out wider near the edge...

It's true, of course, that one can easily avoid getting things stuck in the choil - just limit the length of your cuts. But if there is no choil for things to get stuck in, then you don't have to limit your cuts, which I consider a pretty good thing.

The main reason, I believe, with the way Scandinavians generally favour guardless, choilless designs and Americans prefer the exact opposite, with large ricassos, enormous choils and sometimes even double guards, is mainly cultural. Scandinavia has some tens of thousands of years of knife culture (although we didn't exactly have supersteels those thousands of years back, not that we have them today, either ) while the majority of the American population today is descended from people that only came to the continent a couple of hundred years ago, already in the age of firearms. That, I believe, has made Americans in general less passionate about knives than Scandinavians, and less likely to spend a lot of time on learning proper knife use. That, in turn, directly translates into a desire for safety features like guards, ricassos, and even choils as a counterbalance to the hindrances caused by the previously mentioned safety features. Another thing that seems to have affected this is seeing knives as much as weapons as tools, which has caused the addition of swordlike features into knives. Over here, knives have always been tools first, weapons a distant second, and for that reason, even "knife fighters" have avoided adding too many swordlike features to the knives, because that would ruin their performance in the much more common general, non-combat usage. Oh well - the most important thing, as I see it, is to use what feels right for you, while remembering to occasionally experiment in order to, perhaps, find something that works for you even better still. :thumbup:

I think that you could make an argument that the Scadinavians knives aquired their recognizable form because they was cheap and easy to make them that way. (To me, many Scandi's have too much handle and not enough steel, but steel was precious back in the day.) Same with the seax and the old "long knife" of early America. America may have only been here for a few centuries, but their knives were not, for the most part, invented here. An original big bowie is, depending on the style, either an improved seax or Mediterrenean dirk with a fair bit of influence from a single edged broadword and a saber. A dagger is, well, a dagger derived from European designs which were derived from Roman, Greek, Celtic and other early designs. Same with the drop point knives, nesmuks, etc., although i often wonder if the Nesmuk and Green River skinner were discovered by accident by guys who didn't know that the blade curved up when you forge the bevels If you think about Europeans blades and this includes the Scandinavian stuff, cheap blades did not have guards or complicated blade shapes and fittings. Expensive ones did. You cannot ignore the fact that the REALLY expensive blades were designed in part or in whole for combat, but the fact remains that the pricey stuff had guards, pommels, etc.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Easier to show you.

My favorite;

Stewart Marsh knife in ivory Micarta

 

[TWBryan]

I'm partial to the Mora 760,also the Fallkniven F1. If I wasn't concerned about rust I'd look at an Rat rc-4. One thing all my knives must have is a guard or a good finger groove. That,and the cost,keeps me from going for a Bark River.