What steel has better edge retension? 5160 vs SR101 vs VG10

Ulf Krogstad

Ulf Krogstad

Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
6,784
I really like 5160 for edge retension so for far. I've cut sliced and batoned through a couple of 5 foot pressure treated 4x4's and the 5160 buck punk still has a good shaving edge. But wondering if SR101 or VG10 would have even better edge retension. Looking at Swamp Rat's,SYCKO's and Fallkniven's. Hoping somebody has experiance with all three steels and could tell me which one keeps a cutting edge the longest.
 
While I do have experience with all those steels, they were not identical blades with identical edge geometries. Based on my experience, though, I would say SR-101.
 
amflud said:
While I do have experience with all those steels, they were not identical blades with identical edge geometries. Based on my experience, though, I would say SR-101.
Click to expand...

I'd agree but I would doubt that after battoning slicing and whatnot, a couple of pressure treated 4X4's, a knife is still shaving sharp. Especially 5160.
 
5160 is the toughest among there.

52100 hold an edge longest yet still very tough. Both 52100 and 5160 is carbon steel, it will rust/stained easily.

VG10 is stainless steel, it won't compete the performance of carbon steel in both toughness and edge retention, as a trade off for rust resistance.
 
While not having much experiece with Sr, i would say from pure edge retention, vg10 is going to be your winner hands down. Obviously toughness is another matter altogether (i believe vg would fall way below both carbons), but you are asking about e.r.. because vg10 is so popular in so many variations of knives, the h.t. are going to vary wildly. Many japanese kitchen knife makers run their vg10 knives up all the way to 62. Neither 5160 or SR 101 are going to match it for e.r. at the typical 57-59 hrc.
 
chucknduck said:
While not having much experiece with Sr, i would say from pure edge retention, vg10 is going to be your winner hands down. Obviously toughness is another matter altogether (i believe vg would fall way below both carbons), but you are asking about e.r.. because vg10 is so popular in so many variations of knives, the h.t. are going to vary wildly. Many japanese kitchen knife makers run their vg10 knives up all the way to 62. Neither 5160 or SR 101 are going to match it for e.r. at the typical 57-59 hrc.
Click to expand...


HE was talking about chopping and batoning....

VG-10 won't last very long at that hardness doing that kind of work....
 
I'd also guess SR-101 (52100). VG10 is a decent steel, but 52100 is seriously good.
 
Ankerson said:
HE was talking about chopping and batoning....

VG-10 won't last very long at that hardness doing that kind of work....
Click to expand...

VG-10 from Fällkniven will last for a long time!

Unless the edges of my 1095 Bark River Golok or VG-10 Fällkniven NL2, has hit a stone, they have only needed maintenance.
Once the geometry was set right on the Golok, both knives hold their edges for hours of chopping maple.
Batoning hasn't dulled them either, as this work seldom takes long time.

To my experience with VG-10 and 1095, it's the cross-sectional geometry, that makes the edges stay sharp!

I haven't used SR 101 or 5160 and maybe they are better than VG-10, I don't know.
However, laminated VG-10 as made for Fällkniven in their thicker models, is strong enough for chopping & batoning.
And it's stainless! :p



Editing to add:
As SR 101 and 52100 seems to be the same thing, I do have used it in the Northwoods Boundary Waters.
Some years ago KSF sold these for $109 and that's a lot of good steel for the money!

I have only used it on a few occasions, but it seems to hold the edge very well! :thumbup:

View attachment 433315

As for large VG-10 blades, the 10" NL1 Tor sure holds it's place together with the 1095 BR Golok and the 1084 Fiddleback Forge Machete.

IMGP5315.jpg


Regards
Mikael
 
Last edited:
As for chopping & batoning geometrys, I have found the standard grinds of the Fallkniven NL1 & NL2 to be spot on!

When the Golok was reprofiled by BR, they did almost the same cross-sectional profile.
This has turned out perfect for my use of this model.

The Fiddleback Forge has a thinner stock, but thicker edge and will benefit from a reprofiling into a thinner edge.

The BR Rouge in A2 has the same spine thickness as the Golok, but has a lot thinner edge than the rest.
This makes the edge too weak for chopping and batoning!

Edgeprofiles as seen in a slotted knifestand from IKEA.
The slot is 3mm wide and 11mm deep.

Fallkniven NL 1 Tor
vvi9.jpg


Bark River Golok
0vj3.jpg


Fiddleback Forge 12" Machete
6fte.jpg


Bark River Rouge Bowie
q6nw.jpg


Edge geometrys are very difficult and hard to picture, but this is my effort to show actual edges and the differences between them.

When comparing with an ax, even the tiny GB Mini is thick.
The GB Mini is thick enough to only come half the way down the slot.

Regards
Mikael
 
Last edited:
All things being equal, I honestly don't know. You have to factor in edge geometry, but most often overlooked, what you're cutting too. Maybe I'm crazy, but I've noticed different steels perform very differently cutting different materials. Did I wear out the word different yet? Add to that the actual toughness of the steel too.

I have been VERY happy with my differentially heat treated 5160 examples.
 
Mikael W said:
VG-10 from Fällkniven will last for a long time!

Unless the edges of my 1095 Bark River Golok or VG-10 Fällkniven NL2, has hit a stone, they have only needed maintenance.
Once the geometry was set right on the Golok, both knives hold their edges for hours of chopping maple.
Batoning hasn't dulled them either, as this work seldom takes long time.

To my experience with VG-10 and 1095, it's the cross-sectional geometry, that makes the edges stay sharp!

I haven't used SR 101 or 5160 and maybe they are better than VG-10, I don't know.
However, laminated VG-10 as made for Fällkniven in their thicker models, is strong enough for chopping & batoning.
And it's stainless! :p



Editing to add:
As SR 101 and 52100 seems to be the same thing, I do have used it in the Northwoods Boundary Waters.
Some years ago KSF sold these for $109 and that's a lot of good steel for the money!

I have only used it on a few occasions, but it seems to hold the edge very well! :thumbup:

View attachment 433315

As for large VG-10 blades, the 10" NL1 Tor sure holds it's place together with the 1095 BR Golok and the 1084 Fiddleback Forge Machete.

View attachment 433316


Regards
Mikael
Click to expand...

That VG-10 blade isn't at 62 RC..... ;)

More like in the 55-57 range....
 
Ankerson said:
That VG-10 blade isn't at 62 RC..... ;)

More like in the 55-57 range....
Click to expand...

The outer laminate in 420 j2 is said to be RC 55 and the VG-10 core is RC 59.
That gives both toughness and edgeholding in a stainless blade.


Regards
Mikael
 
Mikael W said:
The outer laminate in 420 j2 is said to be RC 55 and the VG-10 core is RC 59.
That gives both toughness and edgeholding in a stainless blade.


Regards
Mikael
Click to expand...

That's what they tell you... That's a range.....

The problem is that a laminated blade can't be RC tested accurately.... Inner core that is....

I would be that that VG-10 core is in the 55-57 range...... ;)

Only way to really tell is to grind the outer laminate away...
 
Ankerson said:
That's what they tell you... That's a range.....

The problem is that a laminated blade can't be RC tested accurately.... Inner core that is....

I would be that that VG-10 core is in the 55-57 range...... ;)

Only way to really tell is to grind the outer laminate away...
Click to expand...

Well, the edgeretention do differ compared with the Fiddleback that is said to be in that R C range.
Anyway it's a great blade!
Try it, You will love the NL's!


Regards
Mikael
 
Mikael W said:
Well, the edgeretention do differ compared with the Fiddleback that is said to be in that R C range.
Anyway it's a great blade!
Try it, You will love the NL's!


Regards
Mikael
Click to expand...


I have used FH knives before, they are nice. :)
 
singularity35 said:
I'd agree but I would doubt that after battoning slicing and whatnot, a couple of pressure treated 4X4's, a knife is still shaving sharp. Especially 5160.
Click to expand...

Well i know the motto around here is pics or it didn't happen and since i don't like being called a liar here's some pics.

20140420_082514_zps7be67f71.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
20140420_082521_zpsa17427f5.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
20140420_082544_zps1d203031.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
20140420_082618_zpsde8e1be2.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
20140420_082747_zps0499980f.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
20140420_082903_zpsaa61c24a.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]
20140420_083148_zps4b4f4261.jpg
[/URL][/IMG]

Sorry if some are out of focus. These are some of the batoned 4x4 chunks i keep lying around to test on other knives also. I found them about 50 yards away from a construction sight and they were just lying on the ground so decided to take them. I did all the batoning and cutting in my apartment cause it was still -30 F and snow on the ground two months ago where i live in a middle of the city so did the testing inside apartment and made one hell of a mess so don't have all the wood still had to clean up and throw most away. But I'm 99% sure it's pressure treated cause it was used in construction and in the USA i'm pretty sure they can't use crap wood on city buildings and it's hard as f*ck. I lost my driver's license for the second time cause of DWI's about five years ago and don't have way to get to the woods readily and hate asking people for rides and nobody's goes in the woods alot in -30 winter so just decided to do test in the Apt. I'm sure you fellow knife nuts understand although my neighbors probably think i'm crazy now. :D Anyways still able to shave (what little hair on my body i have left from contant testing):p with the 5160 BUck Punk and batoned and sliced the hell out of the 4x4 so very happy with the steel and knife.

Edited to say that i have not resharped the knife since batoning the 4x4's.
 
Last edited:
Mikael W said:
VG-10 from Fällkniven will last for a long time!

Unless the edges of my 1095 Bark River Golok or VG-10 Fällkniven NL2, has hit a stone, they have only needed maintenance.
Once the geometry was set right on the Golok, both knives hold their edges for hours of chopping maple.
Batoning hasn't dulled them either, as this work seldom takes long time.

To my experience with VG-10 and 1095, it's the cross-sectional geometry, that makes the edges stay sharp!

I haven't used SR 101 or 5160 and maybe they are better than VG-10, I don't know.
However, laminated VG-10 as made for Fällkniven in their thicker models, is strong enough for chopping & batoning.
And it's stainless! :p
Click to expand...

That's reason to defineatly get a Fallkniven. Alot more rust resistant. Thanks for all the awesome info and pics man. Just sold my Sig Sauer P229 pistol yesterday so got $600 on me think I'm going with a Fallkniven A1. Great corrosion resistance and from what i heard holds an edge long with medium abuse. Don't have any knives in VG-10 so it's about time to try one.
 
Ankerson said:
That's what they tell you... That's a range.....

The problem is that a laminated blade can't be RC tested accurately.... Inner core that is....

I would be that that VG-10 core is in the 55-57 range...... ;)

Only way to really tell is to grind the outer laminate away...
Click to expand...

If the factory is pull g line samples to test then it's easy to test the exposed VG-10 steel.

In my experience I would say the fallkniven VG-10 is probably 59-60 hrc, I've sharpened VG-10 from a LOT of knife makers and fallkniven's did not seem soft.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top