What steel has better edge retension? 5160 vs SR101 vs VG10

[Ulf Krogstad]

Thanks for all the great info guys. Appreciate it. :thumbup: Sold one of my guns yesterday so got a descent amount of cash on me to invest in my knife addiction. Does any body think that 52100 is that much better than 5160? Or for the most part not a huge differance. I'm hoping somebody can talk me out of getting a Rodent 7. And how good really is the INFI on BUSSE knives, is it worth spending $400 on a Team Gemini?

 

[Ankerson]

Thanks for all the great info guys. Appreciate it. :thumbup: Sold one of my guns yesterday so got a descent amount of cash on me to invest in my knife addiction. Does any body think that 52100 is that much better than 5160? Or for the most part not a huge differance. I'm hoping somebody can talk me out of getting a Rodent 7. And how good really is the INFI on BUSSE knives, is it worth spending $400 on a Team Gemini?

All I can say is get a Busse, use it and enjoy.....

A warning though....

Once you get one you will want more.....

 

[hookahhabib]

The Team Gemini is worth every penny and well worth the wait from Busse...

I must warn you though, it may start a serious addiction!

 

[hookahhabib]

Hahaha! Well said mr. ankerson

 

[amflud]

If you're looking for edge retention, in my experience SR101 is better at this than INFI. But INFI is some tough stuff, and nearly stainless. Yes, the Team Gemini is worth it.

 

[Mikael W]

That's reason to defineatly get a Fallkniven. Alot more rust resistant. Thanks for all the awesome info and pics man. Just sold my Sig Sauer P229 pistol yesterday so got $600 on me think I'm going with a Fallkniven A1. Great corrosion resistance and from what i heard holds an edge long with medium abuse. Don't have any knives in VG-10 so it's about time to try one.

My pleasure, Ulf! :thumbup:

The A1 sure handles both chopping and batoning in a compact size.
It's not cheap, but it's availible and without spending all of Your budget.

A fellow forumite even took his A1 on an expedition to the South Pole!
So it's a hard tested model.

My son has had one for seven years now and he enjoys it very much.


Regards
Mikael

 

[Mikael W]

If the factory is pull g line samples to test then it's easy to test the exposed VG-10 steel.

In my experience I would say the fallkniven VG-10 is probably 59-60 hrc, I've sharpened VG-10 from a LOT of knife makers and fallkniven's did not seem soft.

Actually they do!
Peter told me that every batch is followed with a heat-treat protocol and a test sample.
Fällkniven also collaborate with a Tech Institution at the local University of Luleå.
The Tech guys do the testing under controlled and repeatable conditions.

Eric told me they nowadays also do Catra tests in the UK.

I agree about FK VG-10 do not feel soft and the alloy content sure contributes to good edgeholding.



Regards
Mikael

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

Actually they do!
Peter told me that every batch is followed with a heat-treat protocol and a test sample.
Fällkniven also collaborate with a Tech Institution at the local University of Luleå.
The Tech guys do the testing under controlled and repeatable conditions.

Eric told me they nowadays also do Catra tests in the UK.

I agree about FK VG-10 do not feel soft and the alloy content sure contributes to good edgeholding.



Regards
Mikael

I heard that Fallkniven A1 is Vg-10 wrapped around 440 steel. Is that true?

 

[Mikael W]

I heard that Fallkniven A1 is Vg-10 wrapped around 440 steel. Is that true?

No, the VG-10 is in the centre and the outer sides are of 420j2.
This laminated steel is made by Takefu Special Steels in Japan and the knives are finished by Hattori in Seki City.

420j2 is one of the most corrosion resistant and tough stainless steels there is.
The carbon content is fairly low in contrast to the VG-10.
This makes out the difference in hardness between the edgecore and outer sides, as lower carbon steels tend to get softer than high carbon steels.

So, this ensures a sort of differential heat-treatment in a stainless production blade.
The laminate technique is old and was in use here in Sweden already a thousand years ago, during the Viking age.


Regards
Mikael

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

No, the VG-10 is in the centre and the outer sides are of 420j2.
This laminated steel is made by Takefu Special Steels in Japan and the knives are finished by Hattori in Seki City.

420j2 is one of the most corrosion resistant and tough stainless steels there is.
The carbon content is fairly low in contrast to the VG-10.
This makes out the difference in hardness between the edgecore and outer sides, as lower carbon steels tend to get softer than high carbon steels.

So, this ensures a sort of differential heat-treatment in a stainless production blade.
The laminate technique is old and was in use here in Sweden already a thousand years ago, during the Viking age.


Regards
Mikael

Ok i had it backwards then. Wheww. Your knowledge of knives is amazing. All that blew my mind. That really is a genius knife design. I'm getting a Fallkniven.

 

[Mikael W]

Ok i had it backwards then. Wheww. Your knowledge of knives is amazing. All that blew my mind. That really is a genius knife design. I'm getting a Fallkniven.

You will not get dissapointed!
While Your'e at it, why not also get one of their sharpening stones, the DC 4 pocketstone.

Here's a pic of my favorite Fällkniven, the NL2 Odin with 8" blade.

The longer blade sure bites when chopping, without being too large when carried at Camp.


Regards
Mikael

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

You will not get dissapointed!
While Your'e at it, why not also get one of their sharpening stones, the DC 4 pocketstone.

Here's a pic of my favorite Fällkniven, the NL2 Odin with 8" blade.

The longer blade sure bites when chopping, without being too large when carried at Camp.


Regards
Mikael

Damn. That knife is gorgeous. Would much rather have that leather grip than the Kraton also.

 

[Mikael W]

I lost my driver's license for the second time cause of DWI's about five years ago and don't have way to get to the woods readily and hate asking people for rides and nobody's goes in the woods alot in -30 winter so just decided to do test in the Apt. I'm sure you fellow knife nuts understand although my neighbors probably think i'm crazy now.

In the winter season, it's understandable to stay indoors most of the time.

Sorry You lost Your drivers licence!
I quit using alcohol 13 years ago, after diagnozed with " Classic Alcoholism".
I didn't loose my drivers licence, but I could have.
I've been sober ever since and can buy fancy knives instead of Single Malt.

Last summer I loaded my bicycle with camping gear and went for a few days of fishing, living in the tent.

I packed 3 fixed blades and a Multi-tool.
One for food
One for fishing & general work
One for chopping & splitting.

I had the NL2 in the bottom of the small hunting/fishing daypack, but never had any use for it.
There was enough of usable firewood around, to cope with the 3-5" blades.
The NL2 is there instead of a hatchet, but it stayed in the sheath all the time.
I bbq'ed my own catch and had the coffe going in no time on the coalbed.

It's good to know the NL2 is there in the bottom of the daypack, but it's the smaller knives that is used the most.

The idea is to store any valuables in the bag and not leave them in the camp, when gone for dayactivity's.
Leaving the NL2 in the abandoned camp, isn't an option as I see it.

Getting back to the A1 will give You a basic allrounder without breaking the bank, while You get used to the brand and the steel.
If You want a fancier handle, it's possible to do a rehandle later on or invest in the NL's.
The stag knife above is such an example and it started out as a black rubber handle.

Hope this helps.
Mikael

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

double post.

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

In the winter season, it's understandable to stay indoors most of the time.

Sorry You lost Your drivers licence!
I quit using alcohol 13 years ago, after diagnozed with " Classic Alcoholism".
I didn't loose my drivers licence, but I could have.
I've been sober ever since and can buy fancy knives instead of Single Malt.

Last summer I loaded my bicycle with camping gear and went for a few days of fishing, living in the tent.

I packed 3 fixed blades and a Multi-tool.
One for food
One for fishing & general work
One for chopping & splitting.

I had the NL2 in the bottom of the small hunting/fishing daypack, but never had any use for it.
There was enough of usable firewood around, to cope with the 3-5" blades.
The NL2 is there instead of a hatchet, but it stayed in the sheath all the time.
I bbq'ed my own catch and had the coffe going in no time on the coalbed.

It's good to know the NL2 is there in the bottom of the daypack, but it's the smaller knives that is used the most.

The idea is to store any valuables in the bag and not leave them in the camp, when gone for dayactivity's.
Leaving the NL2 in the abandoned camp, isn't an option as I see it.

Getting back to the A1 will give You a basic allrounder without breaking the bank, while You get used to the brand and the steel.
If You want a fancier handle, it's possible to do a rehandle later on or invest in the NL's.
The stag knife above is such an example and it started out as a black rubber handle.

Hope this helps.
Mikael

Nice setup you got there. What type of fish were you trying to catch or did catch? Any pics? All the lakes and rivers still frozen where i live although it's trout fishing season and will soon be for all other fish also. As soon as the rivers unfreeze will be doing tons of fishing. My mother just moved back out to here family farm and there is a good fishing river 20 yards away from there so constantly going to be fishing there and other places during the summer. Mostly fish trout,walleyes,pike and am going to spear a ton of sucker fish when the river melts and smoke them. Should be two weeks till river melts hopefully. Looking around for deals on Fallkniven A1 you sold me on them. I have been thinking of getting one for awhile and need a good stainless blade for out in wet woods and A1 sounds like it will fill the role perfectly.

 

[PatrickKnight]

Thanks for all the great info guys. Appreciate it. :thumbup: Sold one of my guns yesterday so got a descent amount of cash on me to invest in my knife addiction. Does any body think that 52100 is that much better than 5160? Or for the most part not a huge differance. I'm hoping somebody can talk me out of getting a Rodent 7. And how good really is the INFI on BUSSE knives, is it worth spending $400 on a Team Gemini?

No one should ever try to talk you out of a R7, for a 7 inch blade is the best bang for the buck you will find in production knives imo. I prefer SR101 over INFI and I am not the only one to feel this way. I would take the R7 over the TGLB any day of the week.

 

[Mikael W]

Looks like You have an awesome access to fishing and wildlife this summer! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
The A1 will serve You perfectly in this environment.

I did catch a small Rainbow Trout and filleted it with the VG-10 fishing knife.

It's great to get-out every now and then.
I could only wish it happened more often in my life.


Regards
Mikael

 

[AntDog]

52100 (SR101) would be my guess if you are only talking about edge retention. Followed by VG10 and then by 5160. 52100 IIRC is used for truck ball bearings. It is tough as hell and holds a screaming sharp edge for a ridiculously long time. I think it's what Ed Fowler uses for his Pronghorn knives. Nothing wrong with 5160 either. It is a great carbon steel too.

The thing is, most VG10 knives will retain an edge, but they won't hold up to shock and stresses very well. For some reason it seems to be a little more brittle than carbon steels. That's why you don't see a whole lot of bigger blades made out of it. They tend to bust doing stuff like batonning. With the other 2 steels I would beat em up and not worry at all.

Ulf - I see you mentioned the A1. It is an excellent knife! A little expensive, but worth it. I had one and the S1 forest knife too. Both excellent blades. I don't think I'd be comfortable prying or doing abusive stuff with either one, but doing regular knife stuff they did fine.

 

[Mikael W]

The thing is, most VG10 knives will retain an edge, but they won't hold up to shock and stresses very well. For some reason it seems to be a little more brittle than carbon steels. That's why you don't see a whole lot of bigger blades made out of it. They tend to bust doing stuff like batonning. With the other 2 steels I would beat em up and not worry at all.

Ulf - I see you mentioned the A1. It is an excellent knife! A little expensive, but worth it. I had one and the S1 forest knife too. Both excellent blades. I don't think I'd be comfortable prying or doing abusive stuff with either one, but doing regular knife stuff they did fine.

To my experience VG-10 hold an edge just as well as a carbon steel also in bigger blades!

Here are pic's from an unintended contact with chalkstone/Marble.
The blade is the 8" NL2 in VG-10.

The damage was so small, that I didn't get a good pic of it and it was a quick job to fix.
The bright spot in the stone is a clean cut from the tip of the NL2.

Some FK knives benefits from a few resharpenings when new, before they start to perform.
Brittle? No!


Regards
Mikael

 

[Ulf Krogstad]

Looks like You have an awesome access to fishing and wildlife this summer! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
The A1 will serve You perfectly in this environment.

I did catch a small Rainbow Trout and filleted it with the VG-10 fishing knife.

It's great to get-out every now and then.
I could only wish it happened more often in my life.


Regards
Mikael

Ohhhh.That's looks tasty. Trout is a great fish. Them taters look good also. I can't wait till all this ice melts so i can go fishing.:grumpy: What's the name of the vg-10 fishing knife you used? I've been eyeballing a Buck 126 Alaskan Guide Filet Knife S30V that's $100+ and I'm thinking the vg-10 one might be cheaper. Haven't seen many vg-10 fillet knives. Also thinking about getting a Buck Clearwater with sandvik steel. Ususally just use Martiinni's and Normark fillet knives but kinda wanna upgrade.