WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THIS WORLD...

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Marco,
Who are you referring to when you mention the term "redneck"? Are you using this as a racial term to refer to white people?

 
Rage,

You asked a very good question and looking at the responses you garnered it seems almost pointless to answer, but being as opinionated as all others I wanted to throw in my $0.02.

I personally believe and have read studies that show that the violence on T.V. and in video games, does play a part in today's violent society. Don't get me wrong, I am not pointing the finger away from parents. Being a parent myself, I know it is up to my wife and I to instill values and morals into my children. In part by what we tell them but also in part by what we show them.
By accepting or ignoring the proliferation of pornography and violence that abounds, we teach our kids toerance, tolerance breeds acceptance and integration.
I for one, will not allow my child to view a variety of programs nor will I allow her to participate in activities that compromise the values I want to instill in her.
Unfortunately, as many have pointed out, parents do not take time out for their children nor do they stay home with them.
The excuses abound and all I can say is that is a major cop-out. My wife does and has stayed home with our daughter for the last 3+ years now and we have "survived" on my paycheck alone, although now she works part-time in the evenings. It is not easy in fact it can be a very difficult thing to do especially with car payments, rent, utilites, etc.... but it can be done....the payoff is that the values we hold are beginning to show through in her.
But I digress. The point is that unless we as a society and as individual families take responsibility and take action, it will only get worse.
I do not own any firearms, but I support the right to. I support and defend our constitution, that is one of the reasons I joined and am still in the Military.
Life is not easy and sacrifices need to be made in order to straighten things out, but blaming others for your own mistakes/problems is nothing more than a copout and a coward's escape.
Lastly, as a Christian, I believe in the bible and it does talk about the end times and describes them pretty much as the world is today. The only cure, the only answer is Jesus Christ and like it or not it is going to get worse before it gets better.


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God bless!

Romans 10:9-10

"Military" Fans Unite!!

 
I think a lot of good points have been brought up here. Another one I'd like to bring up is the lack of good roll models. The term "Role Model" has been touted about an awful lot in recent years, we used to call them heroes.

We used to get them from our Military leaders, but that went out with Vietnam as the news and entertainment media decided these people who lay their lives on the line were not worthy of our esteem. We also got them from sports figures, but now we can see a large percentage of these people getting arrested for drugs, or engaging in alternative life styles. We also got our heroes from our elected officials, even John Kennedy was a hero to us kids when I was young, of course that was before the news media decided any story was fair game, and to hell with the country. Now we have a leader who cheats, when caught, lies, and generally gives us a poor example of how to conduct one's self.

In a sense I believe we're rotting from the top down.

If we have no one to look to, no example to follow, then we can do anything we want. We can leave our families when the going gets tough, or another pasture seems greener. If we're talking about kids here, so many have seen this example of behavior in their own lives, that it boggles the mind and it's a damn shame.

We've become a country who've been given over and over examples of abhorrent behavior being acceptable that it's become the norm.

We've become soft and self-indulgent.

In our recent past change has been fueled by style. It became the style of the day to be against the war in Vietnam. It became the style of the day to become tolerant of alternative lifestyles. It's also become our national style to blame everyone and everything for the behavior of the individual. One can say styles come and go, but when they instill bad ideas that are easier to follow then showing guts, getting tough, and standing up to do the right thing, they are no longer styles but become the acceptable behavior of the self-indulgent.

Perhaps it's time for a grass roots movement. A movement of peoples setting an example and speaking out. Thomas Jefferson said we should have a revolution every twenty years. Maybe we don't need a violent revolution, but we do need a serious movement to get this country back on track.

Now is the time, we can't wait much longer.

LD
 
Excellent point, Lucky Dog. Positive role models are definitely needed in our society. A recent study was conducted regarding kids and guns. Roughly about 20 kids age from 5 to 10 were selected. Half of them were taught a brief lesson regarding guns and its dangers before the experiment, the other half were not given any prior instructions. The results are shocking.

These kids were then placed 2 at a time in a small classroom. Alone. two real (empty) guns were hidden in their toy chest. When the guns were found, the kids immediately started to play war, despite the facts that they were told not to do so prior to being placed in the empty class alone. The parents and researchers stood outside of the class and watched in horror on hidden camera as these kids try to shoot each other all in good fun. Had those guns been loaded, over 70% of those kids would be dead by now.

The moral of the story? The moral of the story is that education is not enough alone. Positive role models are desperately needed. When their role models include trigger happy Arnold in Terminator, easy going Rachael on Friends who will sleep with the Italian neighbor on w whim, tough guy Will Smith in Men in Black who loved blowing up aliens, and the list goes on and on... With these kinds of role models, what kind of kids do we expect from these kind of education? Personally I am terrified.


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Pretty fly for a Jedi

[This message has been edited by Spear Point (edited 25 May 1999).]
 
I'd love to get back to talking about knives. This topic is more appropriately posted at www.intellectualcapital.com (or in the politics forum).
 
Nick: (Nadak2)
You raise the interesting point of "where should humanity go from here?" I, as an atheist, feel that there is no point to life but what you make of it. Religion teaches people the right way to act (for the most part) but in my opinion does not teach by the right method. Unfortunately it seems to me that the average person could not 'handle' atheism and without religion they would be much more likely to go on a shooting rampage just for the reason 'there is no point to life'. This brings up the question once again, where should humanity go from here? Should the smart be separated from the dumb, the unstable from the stable, and teach them each appropriately? I feel that as a person, I would be much more unhappy if I were raised with belief in god instead of science. I am also sure that many people feel the other way. Another thing I have expierienced, is that most people who CHOOSE atheism for themselves, are quite capable of handling the beliefs that come along with it. The problems arise when a person can't handle it. I don't know where i'm headed with this post anymore, so I guess i'll stop.

Adam
 
Hey, there's nothing wrong with being a little "RED". I'd feel much more comfortable in a back woods bar, or even a damned KKK convention rather than the Bronx or even the dark city streets of downtown "Hellsville." -AR

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- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.

 
Hey, I went to high school in the bronx
smile.gif

And yes, parts of it ARE that bad.
They had to get a police van to escort kids to the train station when they were leaving from after-school activities because too many were getting mugged on the way.

Adam
 
I think that the biggest point that everyone is missing here is two harrassed (because they looked different), picked on kids decided that they had had enough- and did something terrible.
I am all too aware of the "jock" mentality of high school- until my sophomore year, I was one of the smallest, poorest guys- my family didnt have money to buy me Levis(tm) or Nikes(tm), and I was to small to effectively protect my self. I was teased, harrased, and beat on an almost daily basis. Did I want to take a gun to school and shoot my tormentors? YES, but I did not. Did I fantasize about killing them and blowing up the school? YES, but I did not.
Why did I not do these things? Because I had parents who, for whatever reason, could see the distress I was in, and who were not afraid to "interfere"in their child's life.
What Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (do I even have the names right?) did was wrong... period. I can think of no excuse great enough for what they did- but if schoolyard hazing and such continues and the "norms" continue to terrify and harrass kids, this will no longer be a fluke, it will an every day occurence.
P.S. This post has to do only with what I've read about Columbine- one of the surviving kids had told a reporter (it was in the Sacramento Bee- I will see if I can locate the article online and post a link) how he had on a regular basis called the two boys "fa**ot"'s and slammed them up against lockers because it was, you know, only in fun. Sick fun, in my eyes.
P.P.S. During my juniorand senior years after I got my final growth spurts, *I* terrified the jocks, and picked on them whenever I caught them picking on someone else. Was this wrong? You bet. But it sure felt good.
biggrin.gif

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"If historic fact exists, it is this- that all of the history of man's civilization, from the caves to civilized or so-called civilized man, is a progressive limitation of liberty."
-Benito Mussolini
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[This message has been edited by Christian (edited 25 May 1999).]
 
Kysa,

I think if you will really look at it, it does involve knives to a degree. Whether it belongs here or not is relative....

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God bless!

Romans 10:9-10

"Military" Fans Unite!!



[This message has been edited by William Johnson (edited 25 May 1999).]
 
rage,

I posted this some time ago, but I think it fits in quite well with your topic.

"Like most of the members of this forum, I collect knives. I also collect guns, am a hunter and was a competition shooter. When I was a young man, the one certainty in my life was that if I got into trouble I would have to deal with the wrath of my father. He was a good and uncomplicated man, but his punishment for wrong-doing was swift, severe and certain. I had my share of encounters with the old man, but I eventually went out into the world knowing what was expected of me.

It seems to me that the laws should be changed in favor of stricter Parent control, not gun control. I would be willing to bet that juvenile crime would drop drastically if the parents were made to pay damages and serve jail time when little "Junior" went on a rampage.

To assume that we are prone to violence because we collect knives and/or guns is stupidity. If we follow this to its logical conclusion, people who collect fine china would be pre-disposed to obesity and those who collect matchbooks are destined to become arsonists.

Sermon ends. Thanks for listening.

Blackdog



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Una salus victus nullam sperare salutem. -Virgil
 
Someone sent this to me, anonymously....
I think it applies...
http://sightings.com/politics2/guns/htm
And since I am in Colorado, and suffering some of the effects of the Harris/Klebold fiasco; ie: no gun shows, tv stations are deciding we dont need to see certain shows (They pre-empted Mr. Murder and Atomic Train)and a general "ooooh you like guns? you're scary" attitude...I wanted to let everyone read the site...

Danelle
 
There are so many reasons why things are bad it's impossible to list them all.

here's a start:

Tolerance of perverted lifestyles (homosexuality)

Glamorization of drug useage

Lack of real parental involvement in the raising of one's children (I have some acquaintances who have children that crawled, walked and were potty trained by the day care!!!)

Constant onslaught by the media of false expectations of what you should look like, buy, and do

A lousy president

A lousy public that accepted his behavior

Political correctness

Frivolous lawsuits

The ACLU !!!

The lessening importance of a realization that there IS A GOD! Man is not self sufficient!

Inability for those with the dreaded "Traditional Values" to organize and make a real impact on changing things in this world

It's amazing that you can get an entire country worked up about the poor environment or tobacco, but you can't get the country unified to try and get things back on a moral high ground and common sense interpretation of our constitutional rights!!! It all depends on the way that the media interprets the information for us.

If you think that the media doesn't control people's thinking - Think about how we continually moan about the auto knife laws in this country... We almost always blame them on the way hollywood depicted switch blades in the 50's and 60's - Right? The same with everything else. How many unfounded arguments have you heard from people that were simply regurgitated information that was fed to them by some news report that didn't actually present the full story - only the reporters slant on it? It is a sad fact that most people take everything they see in the media as the gospel truth.

I need to stop this rant now. I can't tell you how much I enjoy that this forum exists and that, with some minor and sometimes major differences, we all have more or less the same viewpoints on many of these
topics and have a forum to vent it in!!!

Chris Canis


I could go on but I'm sure you could all add hundreds more things.



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"Tolerance is the vice of those who have no convictions of their own"
 
Adam, (Uranium)

I don't get the gist of what you wrote, "the average person could not handle Atheism". What is there to handle in Atheism? Atheists do not believe in a Supreme life force from which everything came, therefore they do not have to build a submissive relationship with a Superior. Rather they believe this great phantasmagoria came from nothing; all living beings are by chance; the climate is by chance; etc. I have never seen anything come from nothing, therefore I cannot believe in Atheism. Myself, I am afraid to gamble away the chance that there may be a God and a heaven, where every word is a song, every step a dance, and everyday a festival. And that by ignoring God, He may ignore me when I leave this body and not take me to the promise land. What if you find out at the time of death, that death is not the end of your existence, that there is a God and no other CHOICE? Then, do you think it would have been better to have used your life to better your future situation?
For me, in my mind, it is hard to believe anyone can be an Atheist, are you sure you are not an Agnostic? Good luck.
Nick
 

Not meaning to insult your religion, or cause a flame war here, but please consider this situation. Many, if not all of the victims of the tragic shooting in Columbine prayed that no life would be taken when those two losers pulled out their guns. And yet 15 lives WERE taken. There is no evidance that there is actualy an afterlife, and the so-called "life-after-death" phenominon is explained by the natural production of ketamine in the brain. The only proof that Theists have that there IS a god is faith. Which is why I find it hard to beleive that anyone could be a Theist. Are you sure YOU are not an Agnostic? Please do not try to convert me, call me a "fool" or "cheater" (as you already have done) or pray for my soul. For I am quite cofortable with my beleif (or non-beleif, as it may be) Thank you for hearing the opinios as I have heard yours.
 
2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

I saw a bumper sticker that might simplify things........

No God, No Peace.
Know God, Know Peace.

Even if you don't believe in God and the Bible in a religious aspect (I do), keep reading. Take the quotes in as philosophy and just a good way to live.....

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Matt 22:35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Secular humanism is the basis for the moral downfall in society. Self love (greed, envy, lust) instead of love thy neighbor. We cut God out of schools. We cut God out of our lives, jobs, and homes. We let the schools, TV, and Nintendo do the babysitting while we try and keep up with the Jones' instead of just raising better Smiths. We teach our kids that commercialism counts. Nike shoes Jordache pants, Doc Martin, and Tommy Boy are what make you cool and insure your acceptance, instead of taking a stand for what is RIGHT. Note: Legal does NOT mean it's right! We teach our kids to be "free thinkers" and to defy authority. I thank God that I am not my own person. I am a direct result of my parent's upbringing. My thoughts and philosophies are based upon what my parents taught me and, on occasion, whipped out of me. Yes, I said whipped. As in a spanking. Not beat, not abused, but punished for wrongdoing. My father was a firm believer in the following verse.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

He was just as fond of the next verse.

Ephesians 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

and

Colossians 3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

See, I wasn't just punished, I was disciplined. I was taught what WAS considered acceptable behavior and what WAS expected of me.

I leave you with this.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
 
Guys, let's not turn this into a religious debate. I think we're all decent, like-minded individuals here, if some of us take different paths to live good lives, so be it. Beliefs of this type are personal and should stay that way.

LD
 
It isn't possible to completely solve the problems society faces. IMHO, to reduce the problems, society as a whole needs to accept that they are part of the problem and then be willing to do something about it. Returning to simple, basic rules of conduct would be a good place to start. If everyone tried to live by the Golden Rule, Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. I think there would be fewer problems with that alone. Instilling a sense of right and wrong in children would be another step, accepting responsibility for your actions would fit in there. Answers to many problems in life are simple. It just requires the will to do it.
 
Thank you, The4th, for a respecting my beleifs and giving a sensable reply. I personaly beleive that the bible is the greatest philosophical text ever written. Just because I am Atheist, doesn't mean I have no morals (as people throughout my life have told me). I do not beleive that Secular humanisim is the downfall of humanity, and as a humanist, I am a little irked about that statement. That makes as much sense as saying that Christianity is the downfall of humanity. As for the reason that God has been taken out of the public school system, that is because it would be a violation of the costitution. There IS seperation of church and state, and for good reasons. One time, when there WAS a state religion, we had to deal with the Spanish Inquasition, who slaughtered innocent people because they were free thinkers. If it is ok to teach the worship of the Judaeo-Christian God is a public school, then it would be ok to teach the worship of "pagan" gods, such as Thor, Brahma, Osiris, ect. If many christians heard that the state was sponsoring a program that teaches children to worship Osiris, there would be an outrage! And yet if it is the Judaeo-Christian God that would be taught, many would have no problem. I also know many freethinkers that are christians, and the biggest free thinker of them all was Jesus Christ himself. To be a free thinker is not to "defy authority" as you have put it, but to have opinions of your own. True, some extremist free thinkers may want to defy authority, but some extremest Christians bash homosexuals. But in BOTH cases this is by far NOT the majoraty.

I also would like to make a motion to have this moved to the Political Arena where it belongs. What say you, Spark?
 
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