What to think..... The Polarizing Cap Lifter blade!

[Wowbagger]

Bottle opener vs Americanizing posts

I have no use for a bottle opener on my pocket knives though I seem to have pockets full of knives with 'em. Even my Gerber Artifact has one.

As far as the flat blade screw driver I have found them to generally be too soft and or poorly shaped and so they cam out or more often bend when I use one.

PLEASE DON'T AMERICANIZE FOR ME I really like the different lingo and hate it when I get a book on my Kimdle E-reader and the text has been Americanized from my original copies in paper. I like hearing words and phrases like : ice lolly, lorry, Bob's yur uncle.

COOL STUFF DON'T CHANGE IT

 

[RobbW]

Why even bother with a sharp-edged tool at all? The 2016 Forum Knife could develop into an entire line of Caplifter-themed pocket "cutlery".

The Cap-Jack: Caplifter primary "blade" with a Caplifter secondary "blade", both on the bolster end.

The Moose Lifter: Large serpentine frame with single spring, Caplifter on one end, Bottle Opener on other.

The Muskrat Cap: same as Moose Lifter, but with paired Caplifters OR paired Bottle Openers.

The Senate Cap: 3-1/4" equal-end gent-lifter with Caplifters on either end. Northfield-grade handle covers and diminutive Caplifters that don't really work and require costly and frequent fixes.

The Bar-low-lifter: This mythological creature does not exist and never did. Ever. So get that idea out of you head. Now. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

Jonathan Swift has nothin' on me.

 

[rishma]

I love them. It keeps me from wrecking a blade with my own stupidity. I find the need to pry as often as I need to cut. My dream imaginary folder is a clip+Warncliffe+lifter. 2 springs.

 

[Wowbagger]

Caplifter on one end, Bottle Opener on other.

et al

Ha, ha, ha
I don't think I have been a good influence here.
But you're right.

 

[Lemmy Caution]

I love my Radio Jack, my Scout Knives, my British Army clasp knives, etc ie patterns that have traditionally had a bottle-opener - Let me just add here, that we say 'bottle-opener' not 'cap-lifter' in Britain, and while I've always 'Americanized' my posts , or so I thought, I'm told by some of our US members, that there are parts of the US where the word 'cap-lifter' is unknown, and they say 'bottle-opener'. However, I regard the constant - and it has only been constant over the past couple of years - demand to add cap-lifters to every pattern available with little short of disgust, and to be honest - hope this doesn't sound too insulting - as short-hand for STUPID :grumpy:

Well said Jack. It's fine where it belongs, but really I can open a bottle or "lift a cap" on the edge of a table. AND I never heard of a cap-lifter till I came around these parts, always said bottle opener. I also rarely come across straight slotted screws in most day to day situations.

 

[supratentorial]

Regarding terminology... I looked through old catalog descriptions and found both "cap lifter" and "bottle opener" used. They specified the combination "screw driver" as well. There doesn't really seem to be a historical precedence for one or other. I probably used "bottle opener" until I started reading old catalogs. There are a lot of examples of "cap lifter" in old catalog descriptions. I had never heard of "crown lifter" until GEC used the term.

The poll is just so people can vent about it. The discussion is what's really important.

This type of vague questioning seems to be a popular way of generating replies. It's sometimes called "baiting". I'm not sure it's the best way to get a serious discussion though. People will interpret the question different or give multiple interpretations like I did. Venting is another thing.

oooooh! I wan' a traditional knife with a pitchfork and torch, too!...

Maybe if it's a single blade pitchfork... with a saber grind... on a #46 whaler or a peanut.... with a handle material that has chatoyance... pinched bolsters... and a cloud shield. It would be good for serious work like preparation of fruits and veggies for an evening snack. Oh...and 1095 steel because it changes color like a mood ring.

 

[thawk]

Only if the caplifter has a long pull.

Not a Lanny's clip, but there are long pull bottle openers out there...

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I drink Angry Orchard hard cider, in cans, because it tastes better than bottles, (the bottles are twist off). Nothing tops AO on draft though, but I only get that when I go out. I don't need a church key for the Angry Orchard either .

I just started drinking Coney Island root beer, a hard root beer, and I use my Victorinox pioneer's bottle opener for those. I have had a six pack from before "snowmageddon", and drink it sparingly. I don't use the bottle opener on my pioneer all that often...

I see no need for a caplifter for myself, but I can go either way.

 

[r redden]

Maybe if it's a single blade pitchfork... with a saber grind... on a #46 whaler or a peanut.... with a handle material that has chatoyance... pinched bolsters... and a cloud shield. It would be good for serious work like preparation of fruits and veggies for an evening snack. Oh...and 1095 steel because it changes color like a mood ring.

both from my table and chin

Great answer great post Jake. :thumbup: I am now wiping up my morning coffee with a napkin both from my laptop and my chin. I especially love the comparison of carbon steel patina to a mood ring, This sir deserves two thumbs up, :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[silenthunterstudios]

Now, this cloud shield, would it be cirrus, cumulonimbus?

Rain clouds?

This single pitchfork, would it be safe if you stepped on it, this knife might swing back up and hit you in the face.

 

[Jack Black]

BTW Jack, the correct term is "top popper."

LOL! Hey, that's something else! :thumbup:

Now you've done it! Started another Language War! Across the pond "torch" has a whole different meaning I believe!

LOL! Yes indeed, flashlights are generally called torches here :thumbup:

Then there's: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carry_a_torch_for

The Moose Lifter: Large serpentine frame with single spring, Caplifter on one end, Bottle Opener on other.

:thumbup:

Regarding terminology... I looked through old catalog descriptions and found both "cap lifter" and "bottle opener" used. They specified the combination "screw driver" as well. There doesn't really seem to be a historical precedence for one or other. I probably used "bottle opener" until I started reading old catalogs. There are a lot of examples of "cap lifter" in old catalog descriptions. I had never heard of "crown lifter" until GEC used the term.

Thanks for highlighting the importance of the 'combination blade' Jake :thumbup: I think GEC invented the 'Crown Lifter' term, referencing the 'Crown Cork Opener' stamped on the sides of old bottle-openers :thumbup:

My Radio Jack is one of my favourite knives, and like others here, I've actually found I use the combination bottle-opener blade for scraping and prodding at things far more than I've used it to open bottles. That blade may be less useful than in the past, but like a punch, I still think it has a place on the traditional patterns it was historically used on. I think most posters here understand that, and until relatively recently there wasn't a discussion about this issue here, posters understood that traditional patterns are what makes traditional knives traditional, not just the materials they're made from, or the way they're manufactured. It could be argued that traditional knives DID 'evolve' - some would say mutated - they developed thumb-studs and pocket-clips, and ceased to be the traditional patterns we discuss here in this forum - there's the rest of the forum to discuss those knives.

I know one or two members see themselves as leading a radical charge against the conservatism of traditional patterns - or are simply being mischievous - but it can seem like what they're actually doing is cocking a leg over this forum and the knives which most of us love and appreciate. The logical conclusion of the undermining of traditional patterns by swapping and changing blades according to the fleeting whims of fashion, is that traditional knives would cease to exist, since there would be no distinction between a pattern which goes back hundreds of years, and some monstrosity dreamed up last week by someone with no understanding of traditional knives, or respect for them. For me, and for most of us here, the Traditional forum is a special place, where we discuss knives which are defined in the Guidelines sticky at the top of the page. There's plenty of space to discuss other patterns in General, and elsewhere :thumbup:

 

[Pipeman]

LOL! Hey, that's something else! :thumbup:



LOL! Yes indeed, flashlights are generally called torches here :thumbup:

Then there's: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carry_a_torch_for



:thumbup:



Thanks for highlighting the importance of the 'combination blade' Jake :thumbup: I think GEC invented the 'Crown Lifter' term, referencing the 'Crown Cork Opener' stamped on the sides of old bottle-openers :thumbup:

My Radio Jack is one of my favourite knives, and like others here, I've actually found I use the combination bottle-opener blade for scraping and prodding at things far more than I've used it to open bottles. That blade may be less useful than in the past, but like a punch, I still think it has a place on the traditional patterns it was historically used on. I think most posters here understand that, and until relatively recently there wasn't a discussion about this issue here, posters understood that traditional patterns are what makes traditional knives traditional, not just the materials they're made from, or the way they're manufactured. It could be argued that traditional knives DID 'evolve' - some would say mutated - they developed thumb-studs and pocket-clips, and ceased to be the traditional patterns we discuss here in this forum - there's the rest of the forum to discuss those knives.

I know one or two members see themselves as leading a radical charge against the conservatism of traditional patterns - or are simply being mischievous - but it can seem like what they're actually doing is cocking a leg over this forum and the knives which most of us love and appreciate. The logical conclusion of the undermining of traditional patterns by swapping and changing blades according to the fleeting whims of fashion, is that traditional knives would cease to exist, since there would be no distinction between a pattern which goes back hundreds of years, and some monstrosity dreamed up last week by someone with no understanding of traditional knives, or respect for them. For me, and for most of us here, the Traditional forum is a special place, where we discuss knives which are defined in the Guidelines sticky at the top of the page. There's plenty of space to discuss other patterns in General, and elsewhere :thumbup:

Well said Brother Jack :thumbup:

Best regards

Robin

 

[supratentorial]

both from my table and chin

Great answer great post Jake. :thumbup: I am now wiping up my morning coffee with a napkin both from my laptop and my chin. I especially love the comparison of carbon steel patina to a mood ring, This sir deserves two thumbs up, :thumbup::thumbup:

Thanks! We can all be a bit silly sometimes but most folks just buy a knife and move on. We're just a small group of collectors with a wide range of interest.

I hope your laptop is OK!

Now, this cloud shield, would it be cirrus, cumulonimbus?

Rain clouds?

This single pitchfork, would it be safe if you stepped on it, this knife might swing back up and hit you in the face.

Since it's a single blade (one tong) it reduces the chances of accident to 33%. Why limit ourselves to one type of cloud?!

....and until relatively recently there wasn't a discussion about this issue here, posters understood that traditional patterns are what makes traditional knives traditional, not just the materials they're made from, or the way they're manufactured...

Good points, Jack. The popularity of GEC has drawn a lot of new folks who may not be familiar with patterns or history. Some may not have an interest in knowing it. I do hope that those folks will also take a broad interest in traditional knives and keep the hobby strong. There are growing pains but in general it's good for traditional knife aficionados that popularity is growing.

 

[Jack Black]

Robin and Jake, thanks gents :thumbup: Hopefully, the patterns we love will survive for another hundred years or more :thumbup:

 

[TsarBomba]

Not a Lanny's clip, but there are long pull bottle openers out there...

Leave it to Camillus to have run nearly any variation you can think of. Nice Sword scout, BTW. :thumbup:

LOL! Yes indeed, flashlights are generally called torches here :thumbup:

Oh, that? Ho-hum, we've already got that covered.

Why limit ourselves to one type of cloud?!

vs.

 

[Jack Black]

PLEASE DON'T AMERICANIZE FOR ME I really like the different lingo and hate it when I get a book on my Kimdle E-reader and the text has been Americanized from my original copies in paper. I like hearing words and phrases like : ice lolly, lorry, Bob's yur uncle.

COOL STUFF DON'T CHANGE IT

Sorry Wowbagger, I missed this before I must say that I myself very much enjoy hearing different and unfamiliar words here, it's one of the things that makes this forum so great :thumbup:

I was just trying to be 'accessible' and fit in, but there must have been folk thinking, "What's this odd Limey expression, 'cap-lifter'?!" :thumbup:

 

[Ocellatus]

....

Good points, Jack. The popularity of GEC has drawn a lot of new folks who may not be familiar with patterns or history. Some may not have an interest in knowing it. I do hope that those folks will also take a broad interest in traditional knives and keep the hobby strong. There are growing pains but in general it's good for traditional knife aficionados that popularity is growing.

Learning the historical uses and provenance of traditional patterns has been the most rewarding aspect of BF for me, and have been staggered by the amount of knowledge and willingness to share exhibited by the traditional crowd.

That there is soooo much more to learn is what keeps me interested, and frankly the forum wouldn't hold my interest as keenly if it only consisted of the amazing photographs.

FWIW from a newbie, I'm very interested in acquiring knives that best represent the traditional patterns so a bottle opener Barlow for example would not be on my list.

O

 

[philllll]

However, I regard the constant - and it has only been constant over the past couple of years - demand to add cap-lifters to every pattern available with little short of disgust, and to be honest - hope this doesn't sound too insulting - as short-hand for STUPID :grumpy:

I know one or two members see themselves as leading a radical charge against the conservatism of traditional patterns - or are simply being mischievous - but it can seem like what they're actually doing is cocking a leg over this forum and the knives which most of us love and appreciate.

C'mon now Jack, we can have a spirited discussion here without resorting to personal insults. Bill Howard made a GEC beerlow, does that make him stupid? Case makes a 5 blade peanut, Victorinox makes SAKs with USB drives and flashlights, which I don't think were around back in when traditional knives were king, does that mean they are "cocking a leg over this forum"?. Several have suggested a "punch-nut" for the forum knife the last couple years, yet I've heard no objections from you over that one despite having no traditional provenance. Are they besmirching the spirit of this forum by merely suggesting it?

I think your comments went a little too far. We can all be friends here on the porch despite our disagreements. There's no need to put someone down on a personal level over a difference of opinion regarding pocket knives.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

Personally, I like to call them "bottle de-capping blade with screw driver forward end"

 

[Jack Black]

C'mon now Jack, we can have a spirited discussion here without resorting to personal insults. Bill Howard made a GEC beerlow, does that make him stupid? Case makes a 5 blade peanut, Victorinox makes SAKs with USB drives and flashlights, which I don't think were around back in when traditional knives were king, does that mean they are "cocking a leg over this forum"?. Several have suggested a "punch-nut" for the forum knife the last couple years, yet I've heard no objections from you over that one despite having no traditional provenance. Are they besmirching the spirit of this forum by merely suggesting it?

I think your comments went a little too far. We can all be friends here on the porch despite our disagreements. There's no need to put someone down on a personal level over a difference of opinion regarding pocket knives.

We both know Bill Howard did that as a joke Phil - in my opinion it was a stupid joke, but there you go

A Peanut is simply a name for a small Serpentine Jack, Serpentine Jacks are of many forms - all of them being Serpentine of course!

Sorry if you feel that my comments went too far Phil, they weren't directed at any one individual, but there does seem to have been some agreement with my expressed view. I don't recall you being so sensitive about other people's feelings when it comes to your innumerable "beerlow" posts, many of which may be meant light-heartedly with a spirit of good-hearted mischief, but which you know relate to an issue which has certainly caused upset here, and which some of us have strong feelings about, as well as misleading newcomers into thinking that it is a genuine pattern. Some other posters have been even less sensitive, and I can if necessary point you in the direction of a thread where a number of us were roundly abused and directly insulted by a passing, but vocal advocate of what I'm afraid I honestly regard as little short of an abomination, simply for answering his questions about traditional patterns. I'm sorry if you take offence with my posts, but in my opinion, it's a shame this subject has to come up again and again, and 'People who throw stones...' and all that :thumbup: