What would a mountain man use today?

[Codger_64]

Osborne Russell's journal for those who might care to read it. Tools, guns and equipment were so familiar that there was little effort to describe it in detail. The author assumed that his readers would be familiar with them and so concentrated on people, animals, terrain and events in his life with the fur trade.
http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/html/ruslintr.html

 

[mrgreen]

I think they would change with the times, but still be living close to the land. Western Outfitters using horses and other pack animals to guide sheep and elk hunters to remote locations might come pretty close.

 

[harpoon41]

This is an interesting thread SHS and I could go on forever about what knives and other gear and the different guys I know that are living or have lived a modern mountain man's life i.e. Terry Baublitz for one.
I will give credit to Dave Canterbury for his 21st. Century Longhunter series for addressing this issue and the new magazine "The American Frontiersman" for also shedding light on the subject.
I would picture a Filson dressed man wearing Schnee boots carrying a Model 70, and running a Hill People gear ruck.

 

[imaginefj]

I think some of the traditional knife shapes with modern steels and handle scales make sense. Butcher 10 or twenty deer with an old knife. It works... Butcher another 10 with a "super steel". I have found my super steel knives work better. Better for the money? Couldn't say. But better, hell yes.

And wool is nice. But I wore some nice Filson gear on a wet fishing trip and it TOTALLY sucked. A rubber rain jacket and a polyester hoodie is way warmer, it dries faster and weighs a third as much. I sold the 400 worth of Filson for 125 the week after. Nylon is some awesome stuff.

Look at modern guys who work in rough conditions. I don't see guys on oil rigs working in wool coats. They wear Carhartt.

As for shooting goes... There is a reason single action guns are out of style. You can find semi auto pistols that have a much longer service life and are just as if not more reliable in capable hands. Most guys who say their revolvers are more accurate really just mean they can shoot it better. Usually because they shoot their revolver single action.

Go shoot a revolver double action only and see if your group is better than using anything else.

 

[imaginefj]

As an avid backpacker, I find that you really can't beat a mix of the two. Wool as a mid layer, socks, and pant lining is unbeatable. Nothing trumps an arc'teryx parka for light weight waterproofing. Modern flyfishing systems absolutely trump old fishing systems, yet traditional lures will always outdo fancy synthetic lures. A good canvas micarta or real grippy G-10 will outperform most wood scales, but give me a high quality o-1 blade over a new age stainless any day for bushcraft.

Great post! Old and new!

O1 and micarta is a great combo.

 

[imaginefj]

What we choose to carry is largely a result of what we are doing, so I would think that a lot would be determined by what, exactly, a "mountain man" would be doing today. After all, there is no more trapping and trading as they did it on the N. American continent, no more intact native cultures here, no more blank areas on the map.... What would a mountain man be doing in 2013? They were the product of their time, and the options of the time. Their descendents are all around us today, and are bankers, auto-mechanics, software developers and musicians. So with that in mind, I'd say they'd be carrying iPhones, commuting to work from the suburbs, looking forward to the Super Bowl, and possibly hanging out on forums like this.

It might be more interesting to ask what a modern-day Mongol would carry, since there are still Steppe cultures living somewhat similarly to the way they lived 500 years ago (albeit minus the large-scale warring and pillaging), though with access to some modern conveniences. What have they adopted, and not adopted?

Good post.

 

[imaginefj]

As far as I know (which isn't very far):
They used the best gear they could get their hands on. I don't think too many of them turned up their noses at a state-of-the-art Hawken rifle, in favor of a self-made bow... or would have traded a factory-made butcher knife or hawk for one made of flint or stone.
They weren't nearly as hung up on what's "traditional" or "romantic" as we are today.
I suspect you'd see a lot more stainless steel and synthetics than we might like to think.

Heck yes!

 

[sodak]

I think some of the traditional knife shapes with modern steels and handle scales make sense. Butcher 10 or twenty deer with an old knife. It works... Butcher another 10 with a "super steel". I have found my super steel knives work better. Better for the money? Couldn't say. But better, hell yes.

And wool is nice. But I wore some nice Filson gear on a wet fishing trip and it TOTALLY sucked. A rubber rain jacket and a polyester hoodie is way warmer, it dries faster and weighs a third as much. I sold the 400 worth of Filson for 125 the week after. Nylon is some awesome stuff.

Look at modern guys who work in rough conditions. I don't see guys on oil rigs working in wool coats. They wear Carhartt.

As for shooting goes... There is a reason single action guns are out of style. You can find semi auto pistols that have a much longer service life and are just as if not more reliable in capable hands. Most guys who say their revolvers are more accurate really just mean they can shoot it better. Usually because they shoot their revolver single action.

Go shoot a revolver double action only and see if your group is better than using anything else.

When James Hardin was arrested for the last time, he carried a semi automatic in his pocket, and none of the constables knew how to empty it.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

This is an interesting thread SHS and I could go on forever about what knives and other gear and the different guys I know that are living or have lived a modern mountain man's life i.e. Terry Baublitz for one.
I will give credit to Dave Canterbury for his 21st. Century Longhunter series for addressing this issue and the new magazine "The American Frontiersman" for also shedding light on the subject.
I would picture a Filson dressed man wearing Schnee boots carrying a Model 70, and running a Hill People gear ruck.

Not to say I don't respect all opinions here, but Ed, I respect your opinion highly.

Lots of great responses and ideas.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

When James Hardin was arrested for the last time, he carried a semi automatic in his pocket, and none of the constables knew how to empty it.

That's too cool. Nice bit of knowledge.

 

[zpstl321]

I think it would be pretty much like it is today, some would embrace technology and others would avoid it. That said the big advantage to muzzle loading equipment is you can make pretty much everything needed if you know how. With cartridge guns you have a harder time making primers, newer powders, brass cartridges, and harder bullets that are jacketed or double formed lead. Not that they can be done, most would bother back then even if they could figure out how.

I'm betting even back then they tried to buy the best knives they could, they were simply too important. You know they would use a Bic or fire steel too if they were available.

 

[22-rimfire]

I suspect a modern day mountain man during stable economic times would gear everything around where he could buy gasoline.

Probably be making meth out in the woods and selling it rather than trapping.

 

[Jim Craig]

Been there. No expert, mind you, but have seen a few characters that qualify... We just moved south from the NWT last year, and there are plenty of folks up there living the mountain man life. Trapping for money, hunting and fishing for food, living in a remote cabin on a river. Not as prolific as even a few years ago, but still not uncommon. From what I've seen they give little thought to a knife other than what works for the task, which is first and foremost, processing game. Ulu's are common, as are Grohmann's, CS Master Hunters, and the outdoor edge swing blade. Those Kershaw multi blade kits are popular too. The most common knives are Victorinox butcher knives and Old Hickorys, and lots of guys have em all in a canvas roll. Everyone has a Leatherman, everyone has a skidoo, everyone uses canvas McPherson tents and airtight stoves, everyone uses Jonsered chainsaw and hardware store axes. Loyalty to a brand usually extends as far as what the local store carries, so they can get warranty service. The odd few pick up something nicer at Supply Sgt (knives) in Edmonton when they drive down with family on the winter road, but that's about it. Bic lighters, firesteels and Redbird matches. A sleeping bag in the NWT is called the Woods 5-Star.
For clothes, it's fur, canvas and wool all the way. New stuff like goretex gets tested by everyone as they come along, but they don't last like traditional garments, and are not as easily mended. Down and Gore are usually relegated to town visits only. Sorels - town. Mukluks - bush.
Guns are small caliber, usually .223 or .243. Plus everyone has a 30/30 and a 12 ga., as well as a 20 ga or .410 for chickens(ptarmigan).

Obviously, when I say everyone, I'm making a generalization. One or two people use Stihl...

 

[gazz98]

Unless I'm mistaken, no one has said...

1. Modern day water purification.
2. Modern first aid kit.

 

[upnorth]

Been there. No expert, mind you, but have seen a few characters that qualify... We just moved south from the NWT last year, and there are plenty of folks up there living the mountain man life. Trapping for money, hunting and fishing for food, living in a remote cabin on a river. Not as prolific as even a few years ago, but still not uncommon. From what I've seen they give little thought to a knife other than what works for the task, which is first and foremost, processing game. Ulu's are common, as are Grohmann's, CS Master Hunters, and the outdoor edge swing blade. Those Kershaw multi blade kits are popular too. The most common knives are Victorinox butcher knives and Old Hickorys, and lots of guys have em all in a canvas roll. Everyone has a Leatherman, everyone has a skidoo, everyone uses canvas McPherson tents and airtight stoves, everyone uses Jonsered chainsaw and hardware store axes. Loyalty to a brand usually extends as far as what the local store carries, so they can get warranty service. The odd few pick up something nicer at Supply Sgt (knives) in Edmonton when they drive down with family on the winter road, but that's about it. Bic lighters, firesteels and Redbird matches. A sleeping bag in the NWT is called the Woods 5-Star.
For clothes, it's fur, canvas and wool all the way. New stuff like goretex gets tested by everyone as they come along, but they don't last like traditional garments, and are not as easily mended. Down and Gore are usually relegated to town visits only. Sorels - town. Mukluks - bush.
Guns are small caliber, usually .223 or .243. Plus everyone has a 30/30 and a 12 ga., as well as a 20 ga or .410 for chickens(ptarmigan).

Obviously, when I say everyone, I'm making a generalization. One or two people use Stihl...

Hillarious. I recognize all this. I was on the north shore of Lake Athabasca. Practicality over fancy up there.

 

[sodak]

I think some of the traditional knife shapes with modern steels and handle scales make sense. Butcher 10 or twenty deer with an old knife. It works... Butcher another 10 with a "super steel". I have found my super steel knives work better. Better for the money? Couldn't say. But better, hell yes.

Agreed. The best would be a remake of traditional patterns in super steels, or at least something similar. That's what I've been moving towards over the last several years.

For clothes, it's fur, canvas and wool all the way. New stuff like goretex gets tested by everyone as they come along, but they don't last like traditional garments, and are not as easily mended.

I think this is an important point that is often overlooked. Can you fix it yourself with what you've brought? Great point, along with the others that you've made.

 

[Jim Craig]

upnorth, the one thing I found everyone envied was my GB forrest axe. The rest, they just didn't care about. Too busy doing stuff to care about the crap they carried. The fact is they had what they needed, and what worked, so it was now time to get out there and do it....

 

[redsquid2]

There is a reason for "high tech" synthetics: if they are high quality they are warmer than traditional stuff and dry out a lot faster. I can't believe that anyone would opt for wool long johns over what we have available now. A modern parka is a lot warmer than a traditional one and is a lot lighter as well.

I would ALWAYS opt for merino wool longjohns, if I could afford them. I ONLY wear merino tees and boxer briefs on wilderness expeditions. I don't want any synthetics around my private parts or arm pits. The polyester starts stinking the moment I put it on. I have tried 4 or 5 different brands of poly undies that supposedly had "anti-microbial" treatment, and I finally gave up on them. They just don't work.

As far as poly being warmer ounce for ounce? Please! My merino is just as warm as any poly-ester/propylene I have tried. I have also had a couple of Pendleton wool shirts in the past, and found them to provide more warmth for weight, than my Patagonia fleece. I also found them to be more packable, and therefore better for backpacking trips.

Another good reason not to wear synthetic undies, is that synthetics will melt right into your skin, if they are exposed to flame, or even high heat. The Royal Navy learned that lesson the hard way in the Falklands Islands War. I also know a woman who accidentally spilled hot water on her son's leg, and his synthetic jammies melted right into his skin, greatly complicating his recovery from that.

I know synthetics dry faster, but if it is going next to my armpits and private parts, it has to be natural fiber.

I also have my doubts about down parkas being more warm, or practical, than fur. Laplanders and Innuits still wear fur, and I think there is a reason for that.

Regarding sleeping bags, I remember reading an account of an antarctic expedition that used down sleeping bags. The author said that after a few nights, the sleeping bags became "hard as cord wood." The reason was that, as the explorers slept, the perspiration vapor would condense and freeze somewhere inside the down layer, before reaching the outer layer. I don't know if there is some way to get around that, except maybe throwing layers of fur and animal skins over you.

 

[mrgreen]

Regarding sleeping bags, I remember reading an account of an antarctic expedition that used down sleeping bags. The author said that after a few nights, the sleeping bags became "hard as cord wood." The reason was that, as the explorers slept, the perspiration vapor would condense and freeze somewhere inside the down layer, before reaching the outer layer. I don't know if there is some way to get around that, except maybe throwing layers of fur and animal skins over you.

I was recently talking with a gentleman who has far more experience with long, cold winters then I do. He's the first person ever told me about this type of problem with down bags. He advised using a cotton sheet over the bag. The idea is the condensation produced by the body during the night freezes when it collects on the cold outermost layer. The sheet traps enough warm air to allow the moisture to escape the bag, collecting and freezing on the inside layer of the cotton sheet.

Anyone else ever hear of this trick?
It occurs to me, a modern Mountain Man might use other forms of communication. Then he wouldn't have to struggle all winter 'til Rendezvous or gatherings to learn something new.

 

[sodak]

I always put a wool blanket under my down bag in cold weather. The colder the weather the more condensation, you want something that will wick it away from your bag. Now that I know, I'll try the cotton sheet as well.