What would you do??? Orders not filled..

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arijer

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So I am not sure if I am doing this the right way, and really not here to bash. I just need to get honest feedback to what you guys would do in my shoes. So for that I will not post the name/handle of the maker.

here is the situation. I have ordered several knives from a custom knife-maker here on BF, that I believe has very good reputation for a making great knives. He does these knives in runs. I have ordered several knives from a few runs. Some runs going back to early last year. I have usually one or 2 of each knife in each run. It has now value wise gone in the nearly $3000 range and all knives have been prepaid.

This is where I am lost. I have no clue as to when the knives will be made. He is very slow / iffy in responding, at least in my experience. Obviously has a lot of work and for a good reason I am sure. But it seems he keeps making more runs of other knives, while not finishing other runs and of course completes large orders for online knife stores, but initial runs are still not filled for over a year.

Am i painting a clear picture of my situation? should i just chill and keep waiting until he gets around to filling my portion of the orders? Do i keep bugging him until he does my knife? (to me this option sounds like being a dick). Or do I ask for a refund of my order (which I really want my knives, I like the ones I have from him alot, but it seems like the runs get filled on a whim on not on any logical chronological order)?

Feel free to ask for more details if you need to give me advice, except for who the maker is. I honestly dont think he is a bad guy at all, just obviously very in demand and over ordered, lol.

For the record Off the Map custom knives are also in demand (not the knifemaker in question). but when he tells me how long the wait is, and when my turn comes, I know my knife gets done (if he tells me, actually his wife, lol that wait time is 3-4 months then you know what, that is what happens and I wait). I have 6 of his knives so far and never a issue with wait time and communication. I have no problem with waiting when it is communicated properly. Not that I will get it done in April 2010 and now its Feb/2011 and being told well maybe not for a few more months still but still no exact (general) time.

thanks
Gabe
 
my advice, as will be the advice of many others, is to not pay up front for a knife when the delivery time is unknown.

many makers are in great demand, and the majority do not require prepayment. normally one just gets on a waiting list, and payment is rendered when the knife is complete.

prepayment indicates, to me at least, that the maker is unable to sustain the business end (materials, overhead, etc), and they are already working in the red.
 
I know its after the fact, but I wouldn't pay upfront for a knife either.
No reason to. I agree with Mori, that if pre payment is required, the maker probably isn't doing a very good job of taking care of their finances...

Without a definite date of completion, and it doesn't sound like a legitimate excuse for the delays, I'd be getting nervous, and trying to get my money back.
Either that, or expect to have your order filled, and shipped, in a time frame that is acceptable to you.
 
Echoing what the others have said, not paying upfront is the way to go in the future.

Also, the things you're describing are really poor practice by the maker, and given that you have the same thing happening with knives from multiple runs, it sounds like it's not a one-off deal or some short-term issue (family emergency, etc.). Would you mind revealing who the maker is so that others can avoid the same problems?
 
neuron said:
Echoing what the others have said, not paying upfront is the way to go in the future.

Also, the things you're describing are really poor practice by the maker, and given that you have the same thing happening with knives from multiple runs, it sounds like it's not a one-off deal or some short-term issue (family emergency, etc.). Would you mind revealing who the maker is so that others can avoid the same problems?
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Thanks for the input guys. I guess it was my F UP. He only required deposit. but it seemed that when others prepaid they got bumped up a bit. I have seen threads where others have asked for their money back due to getting tired of waiting and no clear timeline. As I understood they got their money back. SO I think I can get my money back... Its just that I am flabbergasted as to how he is running his business. and he obviously makes a great product. I love his Nesmuck and buschcrafter knives that I have.

As for his name, I really dont feel comfortable as I think its more of my error in paying upfront. I dont want to tarnish one's reputation based on not keeping up with orders. I will give him another week to reply to my email. If not answer then I will ask for my money back and keep you guys posted. If all fails then I will post his handle here.

Thanks for the input guys. And just to make it clear, its not the money, (not that $3000 is not alot for me, but I can survive without it, otherwise I would not have spent it on knives) but rather the commitment to do business properly. I own my own physician practice. My word matters even as a doctor and I hold my ARNPs to the same standards as work ethics. Its just how you do business even in medicine.

Gabe
 
you didn't f-up at all, unless you consider trusting who you believed to be a respected maker to be an f-up.

i have a pretty good idea of who you are speaking, and if i'm correct about the maker, this is not the first time issues have come up.
 
Well, I'd ask for my money back in a New York second and see what happens. I suspect you'll be getting some knives fairly quickly but, it not, at least you'll have the basis for putting his name out for all to see. The details and time line are not totally clear in my mind, but it sounds to me like you're not getting kissed along with it.
 
As has been mentioned by others already never ever pay in full up front for work that has not been completed. This seems to demotivate a lot of craftsme for some reason.
 
Mistake has been done, but keep in contact with the maker on a regular bases, prod him gently until he comes up with the goods.
 
There is one Maker here on BF that has had this same issue for the entire time he has been here, he refuses to learn or change his poor business practices. Demands a Deposit or Payment, provides little to no progress reports, posts of personal challenges / reasons for his delay often but with his Customers has poor to no email comms, posts new designs often but months or YEARS go by before he finishes a batch of old designs. IMO this is a variation of a Ponzi scheme.

I feel for you but I think you have learned a valuable lesson, NEVER pay a Deposit and NEVER pay up front.

Ask for ALL your money back now. If you don't receive it promptly you may have to take it public. Others have waited 3 years or more for their knife or their money to be delivered, only when they made it public did they get results.

Good Luck.
 
Hillbillenigma said:
There is one Maker here on BF that has had this same issue for the entire time he has been here, he refuses to learn or change his poor business practices. Demands a Deposit or Payment, provides little to no progress reports, posts of personal challenges / reasons for his delay often but with his Customers has poor to no email comms, posts new designs often but months or YEARS go by before he finishes a batch of old designs. IMO this is a variation of a Ponzi scheme.
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The maker I am thinking of does all of the above and, what bugs me the most and has and will keep me from ever ordering from him, seems to take more than a few vacations while in long term possession of customers money. I noticed it the last time this issue came up- shortly after the last gb&u thread he had "gone fishin". Everyone is entitled to a vacation but, when you owe multiple people money or product for a year +, posting about it on the forums just adds insult to injury in my opinion.


Other than that, I'll keep my personal assumptions about his character to myself.
 
You have 3k in outstanding prepaid orders?

What if the maker gets incapacitated, major equipment failure, or loss?
Would the maker cover your markers ($$) if you called them in?

At what current rate are knives being completed/shipped compared to the number of new orders being taken for future runs?

Doc, I am sure you are a smart guy. Do the math and read your own OP as if a patient history...

As has already been stated, BF is a wonderful resource for great choices of a boat load of makers. Many of whom, will not accept a full prepaid order even if offered. :thumbup:
 
I'm in the same boat.(pretty sure it's the same maker)

I've been waiting 1 year this month for something (I paid for in full),that was supposed to be done(his words) in three months.
 
It has probably been said/printed at least 100 times; never prepay in full. yet you decided to prepay over 3K???

No tears from me, no advice from me, and while I am sure you are a smart guy I wonder at what point your common sense meter kicks in........................

I am sure you will get your knives, just chalk it up to an investment with zero interest, like buying stock that has a guarantee to never increase your investment for an unknown period of time.
 
I would like to know the name of the maker in these circumstances. Silence doesn't protect the customer, nor prevent others from losing their money.

As long as the OP isn't trying to rip-apart the knifemaker, everybody needs to know the situation. Publicly announcing the maker's name may motivate him to make good on his overdue orders, or if he wasn't ever planning to make-good on the orders, this at least warns other people about his business practices.
 
I also think you should make the craftsman name known. I sometimes give up a small deposit only because I am a contractor and thats what I expect. Good luck I hope it all works out for you.
 
CWL said:
I would like to know the name of the maker in these circumstances. Silence doesn't protect the customer, nor prevent others from losing their money.

As long as the OP isn't trying to rip-apart the knifemaker, everybody needs to know the situation. Publicly announcing the maker's name may motivate him to make good on his overdue orders, or if he wasn't ever planning to make-good on the orders, this at least warns other people about his business practices.
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Marko3 said:
I also think you should make the craftsman name known. I sometimes give up a small deposit only because I am a contractor and thats what I expect. Good luck I hope it all works out for you.
Click to expand...

If you guys do a little searching, I think you will be able to turn up a name for yourselves easily enough. I am 99% sure I know who it is, but it is not my place to say here in this thread IMO. As far as motivating him to get his act together, that will not happen. How do I know? Because this has happened MANY times before with this guy. And the excuses just keep on comin'!
 
Yeah, I know who it is.

I've waited years for some of his stuff, but he does deliver eventually. I have several of his knives and even a pair of bare blades. Don't plan on buying any more.
 
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