Whats going on with Emerson

[King of the Cheese]

Then I recommend not ordering your knives from Amazon zShops in the mid 2000s.

Good thing that isn’t possible, eh?

Funny that you mentioned you liked the way Amazon zShops works in a thread about Emerson’s, leading people to believe that you would want the same for knives, only to act like you don’t.

 

[K.O.D.]

Good for you. That’s not how I want my knife ordering to work.

Way to comment without reading the entire conversation.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Way to comment without reading the entire conversation.

You mean this one?

I used to order used books from Amazon Zshops, like a dozen at a time. Over the next month or two they'd trickle in and I'd do it again. Was fun being surprised by mail call every day.

You tell me what I’m missing. Maybe explain it to me like I’m a 5 year old.. or a golden retriever.

 

[K.O.D.]

You mean this one?

You tell me what I’m missing. Maybe explain it to me like I’m a 5 year old.. or a golden retriever.

You're saying you're a five year old golden retriever?

 

[King of the Cheese]

You're saying you're a five year old golden retriever?

You’re saying you can’t explain what you meant by this?

Way to comment without reading the entire conversation.

Well, I guess “Golden Retriever” just wasn‘t appropriate. What level should we reduce it to in order to get an explanation?

 

[K.O.D.]

I don't even remember what I'm supposed to explain. Enjoy your Emerson. Hopefully it will ship. I'm out, I'm allergic to dogs anyway.

 

[benchwarmer380]

You mean this one?

You tell me what I’m missing. Maybe explain it to me like I’m a 5 year old.. or a golden retriever.

You are missing the post that that was responding to.

It was pretty clear that they were simply chatting about and reminiscing about the ways of the past, not advocating for a shipping procedure for Emerson knives to adopt.

 

[King of the Cheese]

You are missing the post that that was responding to.

It was pretty clear that they were simply chatting about and reminiscing about the ways of the past, not advocating for a shipping procedure for Emerson knives to adopt.

Was it “clear”? Why mention it in the thread if I’m not to assume it’s an advocacy for that method of delivery?

 

[benchwarmer380]

Was it “clear”?

If you read the prior post, then yes I do think it was clear.

If you read that single post in a vacuum and do not take into account the post it was responding to, then I can see how it could be construed as advocating for Emerson to implement it.

Why mention it in the thread if I’m not to assume it’s an advocacy for that method of delivery?

Because threads and conversations on forums can meander here and there.

The topic is about Emerson and more specifically, their shipping. Bringing up shipping methods of the past and how good we have it now is not too far from the topic at hand.


Regarding the topic at hand, I dont care if they want to do it direct, but that is pretty darn expensive for shipping which is a bummer.

I'll likely stick to the second hand market the next time I want an Emerson.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I guess no one remembers the days of ordering from a catalog and never knowing when your item will get there. Squabbling over instant gratification is stupid and embarrasing. Companies vary, shipping times vary. You should just be thankful you have the money for the knife and that its in stock this time of year, especially with these changes. I could understand complaining about shipping if it was more than a week, but a few days? Come on man!

I find it also ridiculous to complain over shipping prices when the prices of EVERYTHING has gone up exponentially. A year ago filling up my car was $28.50. Today it was $53.50.

We are more than a bit spoiled these days for sure. I remember clipping out an ad from a Marvel comic back in the 80s when I was 5 or 6. Something like $4.95 and 6 Bonkers fruit candy wrappers for a digital watch that transformed into a robot. 6-8 weeks before it arrived in BFE Indiana. Damn, that was a cool watch though.

As for this new business model for Emerson, I dunno. I have never really cared for their in-house products, but their ZT designs were pretty solid. That said, taking out the middle man sounds like it saves money on its front. I mean, you don't have to negotiate "bulk rates" and selling the same knife at MSRP just means you're rolling in it. Except for all of the very good points that everyone brings up: Lack of exposure, producing product that is kept on hand and thus not a profit until it happens to sell...maybe, and just random luck on an impulse buy while someone is browsing an online dealer's website. I'm not really sure the brand is strong enough to sit on its own. Brands aren't really a thing as they once were. It is now about influence, and the whole tacticool thing is getting long in tooth, tbh.

Hope it works out. Hell, maybe they can scale back, sell direct, and know that they are going to take a (pure guess) 35% hit on product sold and still be OK. If the model supports keeping overhead costs low, product orders going FIFO without a lot of extra inventory sitting around in the bins, and enough top of mind marketing keeps people buying their knives (even if it is far fewer), then it could be enough coin to keep things going if you are looking to sunset/plateau instead of sell the business.

 

[K.O.D.]

We are more than a bit spoiled these days for sure. I remember clipping out an ad from a Marvel comic back in the 80s when I was 5 or 6. Something like $4.95 and 6 Bonkers fruit candy wrappers for a digital watch that transformed into a robot. 6-8 weeks before it arrived in BFE Indiana. Damn, that was a cool watch though.

As for this new business model for Emerson, I dunno. I have never really cared for their in-house products, but their ZT designs were pretty solid. That said, taking out the middle man sounds like it saves money on its front. I mean, you don't have to negotiate "bulk rates" and selling the same knife at MSRP just means you're rolling in it. Except for all of the very good points that everyone brings up: Lack of exposure, producing product that is kept on hand and thus not a profit until it happens to sell...maybe, and just random luck on an impulse buy while someone is browsing an online dealer's website. I'm not really sure the brand is strong enough to sit on its own. Brands aren't really a thing as they once were. It is now about influence, and the whole tacticool thing is getting long in tooth, tbh.

Hope it works out. Hell, maybe they can scale back, sell direct, and know that they are going to take a (pure guess) 35% hit on product sold and still be OK. If the model supports keeping overhead costs low, product orders going FIFO without a lot of extra inventory sitting around in the bins, and enough top of mind marketing keeps people buying their knives (even if it is far fewer), then it could be enough coin to keep things going if you are looking to sunset/plateau instead of sell the business.

I concur. Logically, its seems that they will lose on both demand and profit. However, I think the vast majority of people buying Emerson's are people who already own one and are fans. The thing is, with knives being a niche market, tactical style a niche within a niche, going solo without the support of dealers still will be costly overall in my opinion.

I agree that tactical knives are long in the tooth, and I also agree that ZT collabs are better than the genuine article, at least that's my opinion. Back when I thought tactical knives were cool, Emerson's would have been out of my price range.

I just don't see how this can be a good business deal, unless they raise their already inflated prices.

Also, love the watch comment. Back in 85 or 86 I believe Transformers had a special set of three different toys that were only available via mail order. I have two of them, and I remember waiting 3 months to get them. Still have them, in very well played condition.

 

[King of the Cheese]

I concur. Logically, its seems that they will lose on both demand and profit.

That’s a big fat assumption, especially considering Emerson has been running his business for what, decades? If he made the decision to do this, there’s probably a logical reason for it.

However, I think the vast majority of people buying Emerson's are people who already own one and are fans.

Can you substantiate this assertion?

The thing is, with knives being a niche market, tactical style a niche within a niche, going solo without the support of dealers still will be costly overall in my opinion.

Again, if he is going solo, there is likely a reason he is doing it. Businesses aren’t typically interested in losing money, so he might’ve figured out an option that makes it more profitable.

I agree that tactical knives are long in the tooth, and I also agree that ZT collabs are better than the genuine article, at least that's my opinion.

Collaborations capitalize on tools and machinery that can mass produce knives, which goes with “economy of scale”. He might make a batch of 200 Persians and sell them for almost $300. Kershaw Emersons can be $50 or less because they make tens of thousands of them at a time.

Back when I thought tactical knives were cool, Emerson's would have been out of my price range.

Are tactical knives not “cool”? Do they not serve a purpose?

I just don't see how this can be a good business deal, unless they raise their already inflated prices.

Have you tried asking the man why he is doing it?

Also, love the watch comment. Back in 85 or 86 I believe Transformers had a special set of three different toys that were only available via mail order. I have two of them, and I remember waiting 3 months to get them. Still have them, in very well played condition.

I love how many of us get annoyed if a distributor takes more than 2 days to ship a knife, but people that don’t even LIKE Emerson knives hear it takes him over a week to ship and are all like “suck it up, buttercup… back in my day we had to ride horses through 4 feet of snow to the local frontier post office to get our twine and rock candy”.

 

[Steely_Gunz]

K.O.D.
Yep, definitely a Transformer watch. I just couldn't remember if they were ACTUAL Transformer's or just kinda Go-Botish comic book junk. Arms and legs folded out, hands slid out of slots, turn the "winder" around for the face. Good times. Mine was the red one, because Optimus Prime...duh. 85-86 would have put me right around 5 years old, so that makes sense

Maybe Ernie can add Retro Collectable Robot Toys for Gen X/Elder Millennials to his line of products. Like a bag of coffee beans that turns into a Dekaficon like those cool/crappy Happy Meal transformers 35 years ago

King of the Cheese
Your post is chalk full of assumptions as well. KOD is not breaking out a Power Point and Excel sheet to point out the fallacies of the Emerson business model. Every single person in here not named Emerson is 100% speculating.
Also NO ONE is telling anyone here to suck it up and deal with the shipping times. That is you projecting. Many of us are just reflecting on what it USED to take. It's a mere musing about what we take for granted. I have no idea how my mom kept her sanity as i asked every day if my robot watch had come in the mail yet...I think I actually forgot about it after about a week. Regardless, giving those who are trying to deal with this pandemic headache a bit of shipping grace is just good manners and being a decent human being while the world continues to be a bucket of suck. Just like tipping your servers well, being patient at the grocery stores, etc.

 

[ColesCutlery]

Thank you for this. So is it just they think they will make more profit by cutting out the dealers? Wouldn't there by additional advertising costs eating that profit without dealers doing that for them?

Are there any other production companies that only sell direct?

I believe their advertising costs wont be much more than what they already are. They grew the follower base to the point thousands of people love their stuff. Word of mouth and shows will be enough marketing for them to still sell blades daily. It would not surprise me if they went to having "date & time" drops rather than consistently adding them into inventory day in and day out; thus forth giving people that "itch" that they got to have one and it has to be bought at x time, x day or else they wont be able to find a new one until the next drop. Great marketing tactic IMHO. Just sucks cause my internet is usually so slow in the boonies I cannot get on a drop fast enough lol

 

[Insipid Moniker]

We are more than a bit spoiled these days for sure. I remember clipping out an ad from a Marvel comic back in the 80s when I was 5 or 6. Something like $4.95 and 6 Bonkers fruit candy wrappers for a digital watch that transformed into a robot. 6-8 weeks before it arrived in BFE Indiana. Damn, that was a cool watch though.

As for this new business model for Emerson, I dunno. I have never really cared for their in-house products, but their ZT designs were pretty solid. That said, taking out the middle man sounds like it saves money on its front. I mean, you don't have to negotiate "bulk rates" and selling the same knife at MSRP just means you're rolling in it. Except for all of the very good points that everyone brings up: Lack of exposure, producing product that is kept on hand and thus not a profit until it happens to sell...maybe, and just random luck on an impulse buy while someone is browsing an online dealer's website. I'm not really sure the brand is strong enough to sit on its own. Brands aren't really a thing as they once were. It is now about influence, and the whole tacticool thing is getting long in tooth, tbh.

Hope it works out. Hell, maybe they can scale back, sell direct, and know that they are going to take a (pure guess) 35% hit on product sold and still be OK. If the model supports keeping overhead costs low, product orders going FIFO without a lot of extra inventory sitting around in the bins, and enough top of mind marketing keeps people buying their knives (even if it is far fewer), then it could be enough coin to keep things going if you are looking to sunset/plateau instead of sell the business.

Yup. This line of reasoning is why I suspect they're making the move because of some kind of negative pressure rather than due to internal growth. Most companies only go through major shifts like this if the current model has stopped working or is showing signs of doing so or if they're gearing up for expansion. And generally when companies expand they tell you about it very enthusiastically. Since we're not hearing anything about that, I'm guessing they're doing this because profits are going down.

 

[skyhorse]

It depends on whether you have a commercial account. $9.20 retail vs. $8.65 commercial base rate.


If he can make the same or more money, that's great. But his production knives were/are 10% less expensive at retail, not including the shipping cost. $185 shipped vs. $225 shipped is a big difference to consumers. The bigger issue for him will be cash flow, which is much different when you've got stock on hand rather than the retailer paying you up front. Which goes back to why most of the knife manufacturers that only do direct sale are small brands that have trouble keeping up with demand.

The first time I ever seen one of his knives was at LEO supply store many years ago, not something you’d find at your local Wal Mart . I’m sure he knows what he’s doing with his business and will just fine .

 

[mmyron1]

If you believe what you read on Emerson web site about how they produce knives there should not be much of a shipping delay on IN STOCK models. You can't even place a back order on their website so if an order goes through then the delay on shipping should be minimal. I would think that if I ordered a knife on a Sunday for example that it would ship as early as the next business day or even 2 or 3 days at the latest. Once a company takes the task of being the sole distributor then they should take the turn around time into consideration. I do know some smaller manufacturers that will atp least give a warning for a possible delay.

That being said I don't think anyone can argue the significant difference in cost between buying from a retail distributor that offers free shipping and another that charges high shipping costs. Even if you bought from a Blade HQ or New Graham at full MSRP it is much lower than buying direct from Emerson and adding in some cases $50 more for shipping. I bought a CQC 15 Mini from New Graham for well under $200 and free shipping and it was in my hand 3 days after the order. That is 2nd day UPS which Emerson charges $50 for.

As far as fakes go, Emerson has an extensive list you can read of places they have known to sell fake Emersons. So they did take action or put people on notice. I have no problem with the move to manufacturer direct to stop the flow of fakes. They have every right to take action to make sure the customer gets a legit knife. It's the oddly high shipping that is hard to stomach.

 

[DavidABQ]

This thread has been an interesting read. I am not really a fan of Emerson knives so I am not really concerned with how direct sales works out for them other than curiosity. Still, a good read. Thank you everyone.

 

[King of the Cheese]

I’ll tell you all one thing, if that old goat doesn’t post my tracking for the knife I bought SUNDAY by tomorrow COB, I’m gonna call and raise hell!

 

[Andy the Aussie]

Can't say I was ever a huge fan of the knives, the A100 was probably the model that appealed to me the most. It really was the simplicity of the design I liked. Once I had a couple of them I didn't really look at any other (a Mini-A100 may have been something but I never got around to it). I won't be buying anymore now they are direct only though.