What's special about the Hi-Jinx

[straitr]

Unfortunately enough, I don't believe there are specific criteria for grading knife of the year. As far as I understand it, all the dudes running tables get to go around and vote on whichever one tickles their fancy. There's definitely a little bit of back-room politics and possibly even collusion involved. It's certainly not a transparent process

Thank you, that's all I wanted to know.

I can see how that get's people emotional.

 

[bld522]

I haven't read much of this thread, but just wanted to add that IMO CRKT may have been better off to have had a different name on their higher end models. It would differentiate them from the CRKT name that many (including myself) won't pay a high price for no matter the knife.

Kind of like how KIA(Kershaw) markets their heavy duty knives as ZT.

I'm no businessman, so I may wrong to think that.

Exactly, Ken. As I said before, CRKT has an image problem. I know it, you know it, and everybody else here knows it including those who don't care to admit it. What CRKT ends up doing about that remains to be seen. But I, for one, don't think 500-knife runs of $500-$600 knives is the solution to the problem, industry awards notwithstanding. If they're going to become a major player in the high-end category, they're going to have to deliver more products and reach out to a broader audience than that.

 

[Luis G.]

Well, interestingly enough, I didn't ask you, and yet you decided to lump me in with "people here" based on one post.

At no point did I say anything about, nor argue for or against, CRKT or the HiJinx winning any award prior to the post you quoted, so how about reading more before responding.

Because I don't go to Blade, or understand what criteria is used to judge knives for potential awards, I would like to understand what qualities make a knife, "Knife of the Year". Since Nellem believes that CRKT/HiJinx is worthy of the award, I asked him to say why instead of simply posting a sarcastic picture to taunt those that disagree. If you don't know why yourself, don't respond, as you have nothing constructive to add.

I'm still interested in knowing, if anyone here is privy to knowing themselves, I would like to hear it. This should also clear up the question in the thread title, "What's special about the HiJinx?" It's a simple question for those that know, and apparently inflammatory to those that don't.

Your posts have been pretty negative towards the knife's brand for unknown reasons. The knife is made by Lionsteel. I don't even think CRKT builds anything. Lionsteel has a track record.
For what reasons it won the award, again ask bladeshow staff or what now. I honestly don't know.

Some reasons why it's special:
One off production (from scratch), that means it is NOT based on any other knife currently in production, unlike some other limited editions. (940-1, 801CF, PM2's or Militaries, etc in different materials, etc).
Ti slabs that are 3d machined (people really don't realize how much times goes into into 3d milling).
Great designer collab
Interesting steel choice, that is NOT common.

Secondly I would disagree with you about QC and consistency. I've owned all sorts of production knives from $20-$1,200 production folders. The only companies I can honestly say have built truly consistent products in folding knives are:
Victorinox Swiss Army Knives
Chris Reeve


When I buy a ZT, (limited edition or not) or a benchmade, or a spyderco I expect a number of flaws compared to the two brands above.

 

[DrFish]

I think part of the problem is that CRKT is trying to up its brand image and credibility by producing a high end knife, but everybody knows that it was built by lionsteel and just branded CRKT.

The fact is that CRKT isn't known for high end production knives in that range and that having a better company make a high end knife for their brand doesn't really do anything for them. If they had built their own knife of comparable quality, and maybe started a high end marque, then I think people would have been more impressed.

As it stands, most of us are saying "yeah, it's a well built knife. That's what we'd expect from lionsteel. Too bad they put a CRKT badge on it" instead of "wow, CRKT upped their game and can build a high end knife!"

 

[bpeezer]

I think part of the problem is that CRKT is trying to up its brand image and credibility by producing a high end knife, but everybody knows that it was built by lionsteel and just branded CRKT.

The fact is that CRKT isn't known for high end production knives in that range and that having a better company make a high end knife for their brand doesn't really do anything for them. If they had built their own knife of comparable quality, and maybe started a high end marque, then I think people would have been more impressed.

As it stands, most of us are saying "yeah, it's a well built knife. That's what we'd expect from lionsteel. Too bad they put a CRKT badge on it" instead of "wow, CRKT upped their game and can build a high end knife!"

I think the vast majority of CRKT's knives are produced by other manufacturers overseas.

 

[RamZar]

I'm really curious to know who built the CRKT Buy Tighe. I've read Taiwan based on the product page at A.G. Russell. Could it be the same impressive knifemaker that manufactures the great Taichung Spydercos?

 

[salmonkiller]

I think part of the problem is that CRKT is trying to up its brand image and credibility by producing a high end knife, but everybody knows that it was built by lionsteel and just branded CRKT.

The fact is that CRKT isn't known for high end production knives in that range and that having a better company make a high end knife for their brand doesn't really do anything for them. If they had built their own knife of comparable quality, and maybe started a high end marque, then I think people would have been more impressed.

As it stands, most of us are saying "yeah, it's a well built knife. That's what we'd expect from lionsteel. Too bad they put a CRKT badge on it" instead of "wow, CRKT upped their game and can build a high end knife!"

:thumbup:

 

[DrFish]

I think the vast majority of CRKT's knives are produced by other manufacturers overseas.

Oh, I'm quite aware that they are.

The problem is that LionSteel is a well respected manufacturer in its own right, not just a contract factory. And yes they make knives for a bunch of other brands besides CRKT. Also problematic is that LionSteel is better respected quality wise than CRKT. So the knife isn't seen as a CRKT knife, but as a LionSteel with CRKT's name on it.

Look at the Chrysler Crossfire. That car was made in Germany for Chrysler by Daimler (of Diamler-Benz fame) and shared about 80% of its parts with the Mercedes Benz SLK320. Great car. It did nothing to improve people's opinions of Chrysler vehicles because everybody knew that Chrysler was incapable of making a car that good and that it was essentially a MB in a different skin. And more people would have bought it if it hadn't had a Chrysler badge on it.

 

[bpeezer]

Oh, I'm quite aware that they are.

The problem is that LionSteel is a well respected manufacturer in its own right, not just a contract factory. And yes they make knives for a bunch of other brands besides CRKT. Also problematic is that LionSteel is better respected quality wise than CRKT. So the knife isn't seen as a CRKT knife, but as a LionSteel with CRKT's name on it.

Look at the Chrysler Crossfire. That car was made in Germany for Chrysler by Daimler (of Diamler-Benz fame) and shared about 80% of its parts with the Mercedes Benz SLK320. Great car. It did nothing to improve people's opinions of Chrysler vehicles because everybody knew that Chrysler was incapable of making a car that good and that it was essentially a MB in a different skin. And more people would have bought it if it hadn't had a Chrysler badge on it.

Your analogy makes a lot of sense to me :thumbup: my dad races a Crossfire (and does very, very well) and guys get genuinely mad when a Chrysler wins an event against dozens of Corvettes. Kind of like a CRKT beating out a bunch of ZT's for knife of the year Few people are able to ignore the brand when judging a product.

Kind of makes me think, it would be cool if the knives judged for Overall Knife of the Year were completely unbranded, so no one knew what company they were voting for until the winner was announced.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

I'm really curious to know who built the CRKT Buy Tighe. I've read Taiwan based on the product page at A.G. Russell. Could it be the same impressive knifemaker that manufactures the great Taichung Spydercos?

That would be interesting to know. No country on the blade, but the box also says "Taiwan" sans any specifics. I've looked on the 'net, but either my Google Fu is lacking or there is no mention of the specific factory.

We know that when the Ripple was initially made in Taiwan, the prototypes (and initial run) did not meet Ken Onion's standards and he made a personal trip to whatever factory made that knife and initiated corrections and a philosophy change. IIRC, he spent 6 weeks bringing that group up to speed which is why we now see a very decent Ripple available to the public. Since the Ripple production, all of the collaborative pieces that I own have had a much higher standard of F&F (IMHO).

I would guess, and it is only speculation, that it is not the Taichung factory that produces Sypderco else the Ripple would have had high standards to begin with. Perhaps it is instead a different facility (or facilities, plural) that have been brought up to higher standards. I am sitting here with a CRKT Klecker Graphite in my hands and it has an outstanding F&F. My piece has absolutely no flaws, flips beautifully, with a perfectly centered blade. It seems equal to, or better than, anything that Kershaw produces (at least the 40 or so pieces that I own). This has been true of almost every (newly designed) CRKT knife that I have bought since the Ripple. The Eros, Fossil, Sampas, Nirk Tighe, Graphite, and Carajas are all very well made knives lacking only better steel for the blade. But the manufacturing is spot-on.

I'm only guessing, but it seems to me that the quality of their knives went up significantly after the Onion/Taiwan fiasco and it is hard for me to conceive that to be mere coincidence.

That said, I really know nothing about the actual process or where - specifically - they are made. Just guessin'.

JMO.

 

[straitr]

Your posts have been pretty negative towards the knife's brand for unknown reasons. The knife is made by Lionsteel. I don't even think CRKT builds anything. Lionsteel has a track record.
For what reasons it won the award, again ask bladeshow staff or what now. I honestly don't know.

Some reasons why it's special:
One off production (from scratch), that means it is NOT based on any other knife currently in production, unlike some other limited editions. (940-1, 801CF, PM2's or Militaries, etc in different materials, etc).
Ti slabs that are 3d machined (people really don't realize how much times goes into into 3d milling).
Great designer collab
Interesting steel choice, that is NOT common.

Secondly I would disagree with you about QC and consistency. I've owned all sorts of production knives from $20-$1,200 production folders. The only companies I can honestly say have built truly consistent products in folding knives are:
Victorinox Swiss Army Knives
Chris Reeve


When I buy a ZT, (limited edition or not) or a benchmade, or a spyderco I expect a number of flaws compared to the two brands above.

I fail to see how I was being negative toward the brand, rather purely objective. Nor did I mention anything about QC, as I'm not one to harp about it, but again you're lumping me in with other people. As a matter of fact, and since you brought them up as an example, my new Sebenza 25 arrived with the blade practically touching the non-lock side, proving no manufacturer is infallible. The thread about it is in the CRK section HERE, go see if I even uttered a syllable of negativity.

I had all my posts in this thread quoted above yours here to show you just how mistaken you are, but I think we're better off just agreeing to disagree. Thank you for your reasons as to why you feel the HiJinx is special, those make perfect sense to me.

 

[austonh]

That would be interesting to know. No country on the blade, but the box also says "Taiwan" sans any specifics. I've looked on the 'net, but either my Google Fu is lacking or there is no mention of the specific factory.

We know that when the Ripple was initially made in Taiwan, the prototypes (and initial run) did not meet Ken Onion's standards and he made a personal trip to whatever factory made that knife and initiated corrections and a philosophy change. IIRC, he spent 6 weeks bringing that group up to speed which is why we now see a very decent Ripple available to the public. Since the Ripple production, all of the collaborative pieces that I own have had a much higher standard of F&F (IMHO).

I would guess, and it is only speculation, that it is not the Taichung factory that produces Sypderco else the Ripple would have had high standards to begin with. Perhaps it is instead a different facility (or facilities, plural) that have been brought up to higher standards. I am sitting here with a CRKT Klecker Graphite in my hands and it has an outstanding F&F. My piece has absolutely no flaws, flips beautifully, with a perfectly centered blade. It seems equal to, or better than, anything that Kershaw produces (at least the 40 or so pieces that I own). This has been true of almost every (newly designed) CRKT knife that I have bought since the Ripple. The Eros, Fossil, Sampas, Nirk Tighe, Graphite, and Carajas are all very well made knives lacking only better steel for the blade. But the manufacturing is spot-on.

I'm only guessing, but it seems to me that the quality of their knives went up significantly after the Onion/Taiwan fiasco and it is hard for me to conceive that to be mere coincidence.

That said, I really know nothing about the actual process or where - specifically - they are made. Just guessin'.

JMO.

That's a pretty cool story, and after having someone from Ken's shop chime in and offer to fix a knife that he merely designed, I can totally see that happening.

IMO it's too soon to write off CRKT as a company that is incapable of producing (or contracting really) high end knives; especially when you have someone like Ken Onion on board and making trips to correct F&F issues.

I hope to see them follow up with another cool design from a great factory.

 

[bld522]

. . . more people would have bought it if it hadn't had a Chrysler badge on it.

Exactly. It will take more than the Crossfire to improve people's image of Chrysler just like it will take more than the Buy Tighe and the Hi Jinx to improve people's image of CRKT. As long as CRKT continues to dribble miniscule quantities of high end knives into the marketplace, they will never be anything more than an also ran in my book. They need to make a commitment to the high-end market segment by increasing their product offerings and opening up their production before I'll be willing to take them seriously.

 

[DrFish]

Exactly. It will take more than the Crossfire to improve people's image of Chrysler just like it will take more than the Buy Tighe and the Hi Jinx to improve people's image of CRKT. As long as CRKT continues to dribble miniscule quantities of high end knives into the marketplace, they will never be anything more than an also ran in my book. They'll need to increase their product offerings and open up their production before I take them seriously.

That's the thing. All the Hi Jinx does for me is confirm that LionSteel makes a great knife and that I don't consider CRKT enough of a high end brand to justify the price, especially considering what more interesting offerings from LionSteel cost.

What does help CRKT is their overall improvement in quality across their line and their bringing to market an increasingly compelling line of knives and collaborations that are attributable to their own network of manufacturing partners, not to a competitor.

Flagship or Halo models do work both in cars and knives. Not everybody is going to own a ZT0454, but it got attention and showcased Kai's abilities. But it has to be in house. Otherwise it just showcases your company's inadequacies and shortcomings.

As in "The crossfire is a great car, too bad Chrysler can't actually build it themselves," vs "the LFA is an awesome car I'll never own, who knew Lexus could do sporty". If the LFA had been subcontracted to Ferrari, it would have just showcased Lexus as an upmarket Camry instead of acting as a halo.

 

[bld522]

One other thing I'd add to your comment, DrFish. Consumers vote with their dollars. If I'm going to vote for (i.e., purchase knives from) high-end knife manufacturers, I'll cast them for manufacturers that have demonstrated and continue to demonstrate their willingness to serve my interests. I do NOT consider my interests served in the way CRKT is bringing their high-end products to market. Regardless of how well those products may be built, who may be building them or how many awards they may garner, knives like the Buy Tighe and the Hi Jinx are little more than token offerings as far as I'm concerned. CRKT needs to stop testing the waters and jump in with both feet as Spyderco, Benchmade, ZT and others have done if they're going to have any chance at all to earn my votes (aka my dollars).

 

[Lennyo3034]

OP here. I was hoping this wouldn't turn into a bash fest, although by the nature of the thread, that happens. I did not know the history of the knife, just that it had won knife of the year and a $500 MSRP ($400 street price). Had I know it was available for $300, I would not have made this thread as that's not too far from my estimated value price of $250 stated in the OP.

Personally, I don't think the stock photos do it justice as Nellums pictures make it look much nicer.

As a bit of a steel snob, can anyone compare Sleipner to offerings of competitively priced knives? At $400, one can get into some very nice M390 offerings from various companies. At $300 there are fewer, but still some in very nice steels. I'm not sure how Sleipner holds up. On the other hand, Sebenzas are offered in S35vn, which in my opinion is not quite up to the level or appeal of M390. How is the grind on the Hi-Jinx? It's listed as a flat grind, but looking at some pictures, it could actually be a hollow.

 

[bld522]

I wouldn't call this a bash fest, Lenny. I'd call it a challenging discussion and an opportunity if CRKT is willing to listen. If everyone agreed with each other, there wouldn't be any reason to have a forum like ours.

Thanks for kicking off the conversation. It's been entertaining so far, to say the least.

 

[cigarrodog]

I kind of thought it was a bash fest, but more toward toward CRKT and less toward the Hi Jinx. It doesn't seem like mindless bashing, but a more rationally reasoned, nuanced bashing. I come away from this thread undeterred from my purchase( I think the knife is fabulous), but better informed and more thoughtful about future purchases.

 

[bld522]

Unfortunately enough, I don't believe there are specific criteria for grading knife of the year. As far as I understand it, all the dudes running tables get to go around and vote on whichever one tickles their fancy. There's definitely a little bit of back-room politics and possibly even collusion involved. It's certainly not a transparent process

Collusion is a pretty tough word. I'd prefer to think that the knife making and manufacturing community wanted to encourage CRKT to step up and become a real player in the high-end production segment. And giving an award to a Ken Onion design is a no-brainer. The man is a genius. He's on the short list of designers who could legitimately qualify to win the Overall Knife of the Year award every year for the rest of their lives. (So is Brian Tighe, for that matter.)

There's certainly one thing you can't complain about when it comes to CRKT, and that's the stable of designers they have at their disposal. CRKT just needs to take greater advantage of them is all.

 

[Kohai999]

Collusion is a pretty tough word. I'd prefer to think that the knife making and manufacturing community wanted to encourage CRKT to step up and become a real player in the high-end production segment. And giving an award to a Ken Onion design is a no-brainer. The man is a genius. He's on the short list of designers who could legitimately qualify to win the Overall Knife of the Year award every year for the rest of their lives. (So is Brian Tighe, for that matter.)

There's certainly one thing you can't complain about when it comes to CRKT, and that's the stable of designers they have at their disposal. CRKT just needs to take greater advantage of them is all.

The use of the word collusion is ignorant of the process at best, and insulting at the worst. It doesn't work that way.

The designers at CRKT are certainly varied and accomplished. CRKT can no doubt do higher end product, and hopefully, after the Hi Jinx, it is something that they will consider carefully!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson