Whats The Forums Opinion Of Mad Dog?

[Edge]

The question says it all, what do you think of Mad Dog knives, are they all hype and can you get a more superior knife for the buck. I have an Attak on order and was wondering what to expect.

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Hunting? Don't be a wise guy, what do you hunt with a knife?

Name it!

 

[sing]

A lot of have been posted, most of it heated... PLEASE, please... use the search and just read the multitude of posts that have already been written for and against.

I hope we are spared another round of the MD controversies. I can hope, right...?

sing

AKTI #A000356

 

[Cobalt]

Edge, I have only held a few ATAKs at gun shows and was impressed with fit and finish. Very quality looking knives. There are many reviews. Just search under ATAK and TUSK.

 

[Paracelsus]

Edge, welcome to Bladeforums. Please DO search these forums for Mad Dog threads. This particular topic has been one of the most contentious, difficult, and sometimes humorous topics (for a whole bunch of reasons) here at Bladeforums.

Paracelsus, noticing that Edge has stepped in something

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Edge :

what do you think of Mad Dog knives

The handles are durable, ergonomic and decently secure (the weakest aspect as the grips taper towards the butt). The TUSK's handle is very fitted for the blade design being wide and suited for a more open grip (spreads out impact forces).

The tang narrows towards the end so the handle bond is based on the strength of the "glue" with no other means of retention. The glue however is a liquid form of the handle material and McClung has stated it basically becomes part of the grip when fitted. I have no idea about the bond strength but NamViet Vo once commented that the bonding of some of the better glues is superior to the inherent strength of the materials often glued together.

The steel is O1, overhardened at the edge (62+ RC) leaving it brittle so it will chip relatively easily and can actually suffer gross failure if it recives lateral stress (lose a piece out of the edge). The blade is softened at the spine leaving it as a whole relatively weak compared to for example a fully hardened 1095 knife. The tip is also left soft so it is easily bent.

The geometry is excellent with the blade being angled to the handle and the edge sweeping back from the tip (positive included angle). The edge is left rather obtuse for low stress work. The stock is rather thick (1/4") for slicing work and light brush cutting, but does reduce binding on heavier woods.

The blades are hard chromed for corrosion resistance which is not overly functional as if you are going to use the blade rust will go under the coating and flake it off. Just about all coatings will do this though, not just hard chrome. Hard chrome is one of the most durable ones impact and abrasion wise, Mission's is probably better in this regard though.

The sheaths are Kydex and from memory some of the best I have seen in terms of durability and blade retention and overall function.

The blade warrenty is on materials and workmanship which is basically not a guarantee at all.

can you get a more superior knife for the buck.

Yes. As others noted this issue has been discussed often in the past, a search of the archives (both of the main forum ones) would turn up a lot of information.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04-12-2000).]

 

[Gollnick]

Forum etiquette requires that one yell "Fore" before posting any thread asking opinions of Mad Dog. This gives the rest of us a chance to scramble for cover.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

 

[Edge]

I AM NEW HERE!!! WHATS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT MAD DOG KNIVES, ARE THEY WORTH THE MONEY OR ARE THEY ALL HYPE, WHAT ELSE WOULD BE A BETTER BUY, I DO NOT WANT TO *WASTE* $300 ODD ON A BALL OF HYPE.

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Hunting? Don't be a wise guy, what do you hunt with a knife?

Name it!

 

[RLR]

What sound does a can of worms make if it is not opened?

RLR

 

[Jim March]

For all the various criticism of the metallurgy, I feel that none of it matters in a "personal defense carry knife". His grip ergonomics and overall blade balance is absolutely first rate, seldom rivaled.

As both Cliff and Mad Dog say (and Rockwells have confirmed), the spine and tip are RC50 and the edge runs from 62 to 63. I would question Cliff mainly on how easy it is to bend that RC50 tip in 01 tool steel...bent tips haven't been a complaint so far as I'm aware, and I personally know people who've rammed 'em through oil drums and the like with no damage noted.

Differencial tempers (hard edge, softer spine) are a well-known bladesmith trick used for literally thousands of years. Pretty much all Japanese fighting blades used the technique, from holdout knives to large-sized battle swords. Done right, you get a tough knife that holds an edge well. The independant Rockwells we've seen indicate a very consistent, stable area of hardness.

Is that edge too hard? I think it *might* possibly fail under very extreme use...but as my interest is more towards self-defense, it's immaterial.

Corrosion: you have to give them the same care "you'd give a handgun" - wipe it down once in a while with a silicon-lube gun cloth or similar, it'll be fine. I personally wouldn't buy one for regular saltwater use.

"Balance and feel" - you've got to handle one to believe it. Grip transitions feel buttery smooth yet totally secure. Blade heft seems to evaporate. That "shorter internal tang" may look like a flaw if you want "ultimate toughness", but by sizing it just right he's balanced the blade perfectly. Again, the technique is similar to Japanese practice, with tang heft being adjusted to make the whole blade "feel right". Nobody does handling issues quite like the Dog...just awesome.

The ATAK may be the best single-edge fighter in it's size class - ever. It's also NOT at all bad for general utility, although that hard edge isn't something I'd pry with. I might use the WHOLE BLADE to pry some, but not the "edge alone".

Would I buy a Talonite Mad Dog? HELL yes, in a heartbeat, even at a $100+ premium. But 01 ain't exactly "junk steel" either.

My $.02 (I own a rare ATAK variant called a WSP1 which I'll never part with...)

Jim March

 

[Paracelsus]

Edge, please, do not get upset. The use of all caps is the equivalent of yelling. Also, please search the words 'mad dog' using the search function at the top of this page. If you read enough to understand what is meant by the phrase 'flying saucer key', you will know why this topic is Explosive. There has been much blood spilled over your question. It has nothing to do with you personally.

Paracelsus, who trys to have NO opinion about Mad Dog or his knives

 

[Snoopy]

Edge,
I have never owned or even seen a Mad Dog knife but have read enough about them on this forum in the last 3 months to decide whether or not I want one - I urge you to take others advice and use the search feature. I promise you will find more than you probably ever wanted to know

Beware all CAPS is considered screaming on the forum, might not bring the response you are looking for. There is also a lot of info available at Mad Dogs' forum - http://www.tacticalforums.com
Enjoy the reading,
David

 

[Johan]

Edge, okay here's the skinny:

Some months ago there was a major kafuffle about Mad Dog knives after some testing was done by a BF member. The manufacturer of MD knives took it personally and accused the tester of using a stolen inferior knife. Things just got worse from there. Flame wars ensued, threads were locked, on other forums certain BF members were banned or had their posting deleted. Things got personal, nasty and they dragged on. NO ONE HERE WANTS TO SEE THAT HAPPEN AGAIN! That's why so many people are suggesting you check the search feature.

I've never owned or handled an MD so I can't comment. What I can say is that Cliff Stamp is one of the most knowledgable members we have and his opinion is worth considering. I don't always agree with Cliff's opinion, but I never question his data or testing. Listen to what he has to say.

If you want some other possabilities try Busse Knives http://www.sharperinstinct.com/ http://www.knifeoutlet.com/ http://www.knifeoutlet.com/

or Newt Livesay Wicked Knives http://members.tripod.com/~Newt_Livesay/index2.html


or TOPS Knives http://www.tactical-ops.com/


Hope this helps.

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"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.

[This message has been edited by Johan (edited 04-12-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Johan (edited 04-12-2000).]

 

[bruce]

Edge, I own a Mad Dog ATAK Hunter (you can see a picture on any of the MD dealer sites). I've owned lots of other knives before, customs, factory made, etc. and I can tell you this is the knife I will be deployed with and feel is worthy to save my life with (A Chris Reeve Sebenza will accompany it). The handle ergonomics have been well thought out, the balance is perfect, and the sheath fits snug without being overly tight. Some kydex sheaths I've owned allowed the knife to rattle around inside. Not Mad Dog's.

Read the history if you want, but find one, or a couple, to handle and see for yourself.

Bruce Woodbury

 

[Jim March]

In my opinion, the only people even close in "fighter ergonomics and balance" in a lightweight blade style are Ernie Mayer of Black Cloud, Bill Bagwell, Jerry wazzizname that does the "Millenium Fighter" series, a very few others.

If you like a heavier "smashing power" blade, there's lots of choices...but for something with low tip weight and "fast handling" characteristics, Mad Dog is among the very best in the world.

Jim

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Jim :

Originally posted by Jim March:
For all the various criticism of the metallurgy, I feel that none of it matters in a "personal defense carry knife".

I would consider chipping on hard surfaces and fracture under impacts kind of important for a combat blade, unless you are fighting boneless people with no clothes or weapons of their own.

His grip ergonomics and overall blade balance is absolutely first rate, seldom rivaled.

The balance is the most overhyped aspect of his blades. Basically if you pick up a Cold Steel Recon Scout and ATAK you will notice McClung's knife feels lighter in hand. This is marketted as making the ATAK a better blade as it indicates greater quality. This is nonsense, the Recon Scout is blade heavy as it functions better for what it was indended to do because of it.

bent tips haven't been a complaint so far as I'm aware

Talk to Will Kwan and Mike Turber who bent the tips of ATAK's and ask them about Missions MPK's under the same stress.

and I personally know people who've rammed 'em through oil drums and the like with no damage noted.

That is a compressive stress.

Differencial tempers (hard edge, softer spine) are a well-known bladesmith trick used for literally thousands of years.

The spine on a blade is softened primarly because if the blade is bent the spine will have to deform much more than the edge. Thus the spine needs to be more ductile to resist cracking. Another benefit is that the blade will be able to take very heavy impacts because of the extreme toughness of the softened steel - however any impact on a MD blade which marrs the spine is abuse and will void the warrenty.

That being said, what I noted above still stands. The softened spine on MD's blade weakens the knife as a whole and brings the strength down past that of a 1095 blade. now the advantage is that it should be tougher, but this is irrelevant as the warrenty will get voided if the spine recieves an impact heavy enough to dent it (which is not that difficult, I did it driving the blade through sheet metal).

Is that edge too hard? I think it *might* possibly fail under very extreme use

I broke two TUSK's in half with the edge embedded in a 4x4 pressing down with my arm. Again, as in the above, an Ontario 1095 bowie with similar edge geometry will easily take this strain and greater as I walked on them. I have seen a Busse #7 Basic take over 190 lbs just on its edge (my brother was doing pull-ups after I pounded the edge in a tree).

That "shorter internal tang" may look like a flaw if you want "ultimate toughness", but by sizing it just right he's balanced the blade perfectly.

The tang could taper the other way and have a radiused transition and still achieve the same balance.

The ATAK may be the best single-edge fighter in it's size class - ever.

Which custom maker's blades have you used in a similar design.

-Cliff

 

[Spark]

Some threads of interest...
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000305.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000326.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000355.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000370.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000556.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000952.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001887.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003933.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000424.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000780.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000802.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000808.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000815.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000821.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000825.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000827.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000865.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000874.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000877.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/000967.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/001085.html http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum32/HTML/002634.html

There's probably more, but I'm tired of copying and pasting.

Are there comparable (or better) knives for the money? IMHO, yes.

Want similar blade geometry, better blade coating? Check out Mission's MPK in A2 (it also comes in various styles and sizes. The Titanium version is official issue, yadda yadda)

Want extremely tough steel? Check out the Busse Basics.

Want a good all around camp knife? Check out the Becker Campanion.

Want a good, all around sharpened prybar? Cold Steel SRK and Fallkniven A1.

Kabar works too.

Do the research... and you shall find something that suits you.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here

 

[Slawxxx]

I own 4 Mad Dogs and use ( very hard) ATAK for last 4 years , no single chip appears on the blade , edge holding is compare with my Busse , Mission or CRK , balance and fit without competition , in short words its good knife for me.Lots of people don’t like price or many of different things , but again in my opinion its very good knife

 

[lifter4Him]

<---just sitting back munching popcorn waiting for the explosion. Hey Nakano, got enough Redenbacher?

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Dave (Phil.4:13)
I Can Do All Things Through Him Who Strengthens Me

 

[Nakano 2]

Dave, I knew I' d see you here at some point! Brian, start heating the butter!

L8r,
Nakano

PS- just plain Herrs.

 

[Jim March]

Cliff, I haven't done the level of testing you have. The bent tips are new info to me, but then I didn't read all the various "controversy threads" so that's my fault.

I understand that a blade-heavy piece is better for some tasks. I own an HI khukuri, remember

? But for some styles of *fighter*, the way a Mad Dog feels and balances is close to nirvana. I'm also very reluctant to believe that a Mad Dog blade is liable to suffer edge damage or gross failure in the stresses of a personal fight. I guess if you rammed one tip-first into the steel trauma plate of a high-end ballistic vest, you might get enough stress to matter. Even then that's a dumb target area, vest or no vest, at least in the system I studied in and others I've read about. (Not to mention, if I thought it likely I'd ever have to use a knife on a cop, I'd move

.)

We see this differently because our emphasis is different in terms of "what we want out of the piece". I'm not calling your test methods, results (or integrity) into question, only your test's applicability for MY needs.

Jim