What's the scoop on Chinese D2 steel?

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I have only owned one Spyderco knife, and although I don't really care for it, and although I don't particularly care for their designs in general, I still regard Spyderco as one of the most reputable knife companies on earth.

Spyderco has a well-earned reputation for quality, and I don't believe that Sal Glesser, the owner of Spyderco, would risk their reputation by trying to save a few bucks using a lower quality grade of steel and trying to pass it off as a higher grade.

Although I don't happen to care for their designs, if I liked one with a D2 blade, I would feel very confident in buying it.

But this isn't a complicated matter. If you have your doubts about the steel they're using, don't buy. Is there really anything anyone here can say or offer you that would convince you one way or the other? I doubt anyone here has any official Spyderco documentation regarding the origin of the D2 steel they use, or it's metallurgical composition, or the exact process they use for heat-treating .

As is often the case when buying any product, it comes down to trust, and the reputation of the company.
 
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sharpknives23 said:
unless Spyderco couriers in the metals used in the knives manufactured there, either by plane, boat,
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OK, you answered your own question. If Spyderco wanted to have this hawk made using a particular steel that isn't made in Taiwan, this is exactly how it would get there......
Next question?
 
Spyderco seem to have a strong hand on the tiller, when it comes to quality control, no matter where the knife is made. The Raven 2 is made in Mainland China and probably the best in the entire Byrd series. Some companies, like Buck, see a huge drop off in quality in the products they make in Mainland China. There are also some very good local knife companies that originate in Mainland China.

Taiwan is where a ton of highly regarded production knives are forged and anyone looking for a quality blade should have zero concerns based on them being a country of origin. A lot of Spyderco and Cold Steel's best knives are made there.
 
Danke42 said:
There are a whole bunch of steel mills in Taiwan that can roll out D2. It's a very old steel that a lot of people use.

Taiwan is a great country for knifemaking. Spyderco is a great company with a very long and honest history in the world of knives.

If you want the ax buy it. If you want to come here and play devil's advocate you're likely to be burned to a crisp.

And before you ask no company is going to share details on their vendors and detailed prodcution process information with a stranger on the internet.
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Those are some lovely opinions that you have.

Also, thanks for that link, it still does nothing to answer my query regarding the heat treatment process involved with the Spyderco product itself.

You're wrong about your last point, because the Studies and Observations Group DOES tell you about the hardness of their products, whereas Spyderco does not. I'm sure if you wanted to do the math you could deduce just how they heat treated their items. Why does Spyderco leave this detail omitted on their website?
 
sharpknives23 said:
Those are some lovely opinions that you have.

Also, thanks for that link, it still does nothing to answer my query regarding the heat treatment process involved with the Spyderco product itself.

You're wrong about your last point, because the Studies and Observations Group DOES tell you about the hardness of their products, whereas Spyderco does not. I'm sure if you wanted to do the math you could deduce just how they heat treated their items. Why does Spyderco leave this detail omitted on their website?
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Because final Rc value is not the most reliable metric. All it does is tell you if you got to where you were targeting, overall. It is possible to end up at the same Rc, with entirely different structure, via different protocols.

Many people also don't understand the actual Rc process fully, either... They don't understand the target "range", or that two knives processed as similarly as possible, might test one or two points different on the scale, and that this is acceptable.

Sal has been pretty accommodating on the forums, when people ask.
 
Since you are asking about heat treat, I have to assume you plan to actually use the Spyderco Warrior Hawk. If so, D2 is a poor choice for a hatchet intended for use, e.g. high impact use like chopping. D2 has just gotten to be extremely inexpensive to use for an alloy tool steel, so the Chinese are using it as it still makes for a decent edge holding knife for slicing and abrasive edge retention (but not for impact toughness). Do a quick Google search on "Larrin Thomas toughness ratings", or go to this link.
knifesteelnerds.com

Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance - Knife Steel Nerds

Steel Metallurgist Larrin Thomas uses tests of knife steels to rate the steels and explains the factors that control performance.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com

You'll see he rates D2 a 3.5 on a 10 scale for toughness, and he has actual toughness testing data to support his rating system (in-house notch impact testing). Opinions supported with lab data aren't common for toughness.

Since D2 isn't stainless, but it hovers near stainless, to me, you might as well get an axe that is made from an impact resistant steel if you are going to use it seriously.

I think the Spyderco price reflects both their quality, and the size of the steel stock you have to start with to get a hatchet-shaped tool cut out of a sheet of D2. And also: the "Warrior Hawk’s blade is cloaked in a titanium carbonitride coating to eliminate reflection and protect it from corrosion."
 
Studies and Observation Group??? You mean SOG? SOG is a knife company. S.O.G. was a Special Forces division during the Vietnam War. Aside from the letters in their names, the two are COMPLETELY unrelated.
 
sharpknives23 said:
The Spyderco Warrior Hawk, which conveniently just went up in price from $336USD to $352.80USD. Is it really worth that? I'm trying to find the justification in such a high asking price point for Chinese made steel. Is Chinese made steel REALLY that good? Serious question btw.
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I personally would never pay that much for a tactical axe, unless I had a personal relationship with the designer, like I had been his student at some point and wished to honour that relationship by having that axe.

When I buy a top end axe it's a Husqvarna or Council Tool for less than a third of that price and designed for practical axe use, like putting batoning knives on the unemployment line. The things that Spyderco do with designers that are a bit different from their regular lines, tend to be hella overpriced for the collector market.
 
I consider myself a Spyderco fan boy. I own more Spyderco knives than any other brand.

I would not pay $350+ for that tomahawk. That hole in the axe head doesn't seem to be in a good spot. The angle on the cutting/chopping head is ... odd. D2 would not be in my top 5 steels to make an axe from.

This Spyderco product is a definite head scratcher for me.

As for D2 steel from Taiwan. It works just fine. My $40ish Ontario Rat 1s are holding up just fine.
 
Rob_Angerer said:
Since you are asking about heat treat, I have to assume you plan to actually use the Spyderco Warrior Hawk. If so, D2 is a poor choice for a hatchet intended for use, e.g. high impact use like chopping. D2 has just gotten to be extremely inexpensive to use for an alloy tool steel, so the Chinese are using it as it still makes for a decent edge holding knife for slicing and abrasive edge retention (but not for impact toughness). Do a quick Google search on "Larrin Thomas toughness ratings", or go to this link.
knifesteelnerds.com

Knife Steels Rated by a Metallurgist - Toughness, Edge Retention, and Corrosion Resistance - Knife Steel Nerds

Steel Metallurgist Larrin Thomas uses tests of knife steels to rate the steels and explains the factors that control performance.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com

You'll see he rates D2 a 3.5 on a 10 scale for toughness, and he has actual toughness testing data to support his rating system (in-house notch impact testing). Opinions supported with lab data aren't common for toughness.

Since D2 isn't stainless, but it hovers near stainless, to me, you might as well get an axe that is made from an impact resistant steel if you are going to use it seriously.

I think the Spyderco price reflects both their quality, and the size of the steel stock you have to start with to get a hatchet-shaped tool cut out of a sheet of D2. And also: the "Warrior Hawk’s blade is cloaked in a titanium carbonitride coating to eliminate reflection and protect it from corrosion."
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THANK YOU. Finally, someone who is decent and reasonable has added onto the discussion.

Yes, I do plan to use it. I like the aesthetic look of the item, as well as the overall length. There are some abandoned buildings I'd like to go and explore, and because the item is marketed as a 'breaching' tool, I'm wondering how it would fare if I were to use it as 'an expedient Halligan tool' to pry open a locked door, or even a shuttered window. I don't necessarily want to use it as a weapon, although I would if I ever encountered some coyotes or other wild animal that attacked me while I'm out doing urban ex.
 
D2 is a decent steel for knives, not so much for chopping tools. The best axes are differentially hardened, that is, the edge is hard, the rest of the head is left softer for shock/impact resistance. D2, and most other stainless alloys, are generally through-hardened, one RC for the entire tool. In my opinion, this is not the best practice for a chopping tool. For a collector, tho, it's immaterial.

I'm not the biggest fan of most monolithic axes/hatchets/hawks. That said, I've owned one for almost thirty years. 1/2" 5160, with walnut handles. It's practically indestructible.
 
justjed said:
Studies and Observation Group??? You mean SOG? SOG is a knife company. S.O.G. was a Special Forces division during the Vietnam War. Aside from the letters in their names, the two are COMPLETELY unrelated.
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You do know the two are the same, right? SOG (the knife company) is an abbreviation for the Studies and Observations Group

sogknives.com

SOG Company History | SOG Knives and Tools

Learn how the knife carried by a highly classified US special ops unit in Vietnam became the inspiration for the launch of SOG Knives and Tools.
sogknives.com sogknives.com
 
justjed said:
HOW on God's green earth do you consider a knife company that started in 1984 to be the same as a Special Forces division that started in 1964??? One is a government agency, one is a commercial enterprise that has absolutely zero Congressional oversight?
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Because it's literally on their website?

I'm not here to argue semantics, SOG knives can literally be abbreviated to Studies and Observations Group knives. I prefer calling that company the Studies and Observations Group.

But here, allow me to appease your OCD and refer to it as SOG knives from here on and out during this discussion. Are you happy now? SOG KNIVES lol. Sounds like 'Soggy Knives' and it irks me.
 
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