What's up with folders?

JohnnyBlades, edit your OP and replace "folders" with cars, guns, wines, beer, clothes, etc and you have the classic question.

Why a Cadillac/BMW/Bently/Ferrari when a Chevy/Ford is good enough?
Why a Browning/Benelli when a Mossberg is good enough?

There are others that shake their heads at your purchases thinking you're crazy spending more than $10 on a knife.
 
Every knife you've mentioned positively would be absolutely terrible at my regular EDC tasks. I cut a ton of cardboard daily. It's abrasive and the circumstances requires lots of make a cut, put knife away, make a cut, put knife away. Combine that with dealing with the public throughout the day and a fixed blade would just be wildly impractical, where a modern folder with a highly wear resistant steel becomes an optimal tool. Hell, I don't generaly use knives to chop or split wood, so for me the kind of knives you prefer to spend money on seem somewhat absurd and impractical. My $50 axe will chop and split better than any of them. ;)

TL;DR People use and carry what works for them and what they like. For a lot of us, that's folders.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Every knife you've mentioned positively would be absolutely terrible at my regular EDC tasks. I cut a ton of cardboard daily. It's abrasive and the circumstances requires lots of make a cut, put knife away, make a cut, put knife away. Combine that with dealing with the public throughout the day and a fixed blade would just be wildly impractical, where a modern folder with a highly wear resistant steel becomes an optimal tool. Hell, I don't generaly use knives to chop or split wood, so for me the kind of knives you prefer to spend money on seem somewhat absurd and impractical. My $50 axe will chop and split better than any of them. ;)

TL;DR People use and carry what works for them and what they like. For a lot of us, that's folders.
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You should try a boxcutter....right tool for the job, no odd reactions from the public ....etc etc

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Superdave1 said:
You should try a boxcutter....right tool for the job, no odd reactions from the public ....etc etc

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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Wears out quickly and I've never encountered one that's as easy to pull from the pocket and replace as a good modern folder. They also give you such a small amount of actual edge to work with that it makes other common tasks difficult or impossible. The versatility of a good modern folder simply makes it a far better tool for my needs.
 
JohnnyBlades said:
So I have been casually observing these forums for a few months now. One thing I can't fully understand is the obsession with folding knives. Now I like folders, I have 5 of them(admittedly, several mtech/tac force models), but I just can't imagine spending more than 50$ on one. It boggles my mind people spend 200$ plus on them. I get it, some people just have enough funds to spend and want something, but for me there are so many vastly superior fixed blades in the>100$ price range that I would be very hard pressed to ever consider one of the premium folders that so many members on here boast. Just a thought...
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If you are happy where you are, that's great. If you want to stay there, don't ask ?'s :). Higher end folders definitely have better quality and material, but it is a diminishing returns situation. Nice folders even though they may seem expensive to some are still within my buying range, and I get enough enjoyment from them to be worth it to me. That is where I get my return-enjoyment in a fine knife.

I'll add-It was many years before I ever bought a knife over $100 and when I did it was a $400 knife. I have never looked back. They are worth it to me.
 
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JohnnyBlades said:
So I have been casually observing these forums for a few months now. One thing I can't fully understand is the obsession with folding knives. Now I like folders, I have 5 of them(admittedly, several mtech/tac force models), but I just can't imagine spending more than 50$ on one. It boggles my mind people spend 200$ plus on them. I get it, some people just have enough funds to spend and want something, but for me there are so many vastly superior fixed blades in the>100$ price range that I would be very hard pressed to ever consider one of the premium folders that so many members on here boast. Just a thought...
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Why? Because we like them.

Personally, I prefer a folding action that feels more like a fine bolt action rifle(PM2 or Sebenza) than a 13 year old's garage balisong project made from aluminum, zip ties and a butchered butter knife.(M-Tech)
 
$50 are good for nothing. letter opening only and excessive sharpening the blade because it gets dull so fast. terrible quality and function.
$50-100 are expensive letter openers with crap quality and steel. marked up for profits.
$100-150 are getting better depending the brand. mostly marked up for profits, with low quality construction usually from china
$150+ is the start of a good folder quality, steel, materials and function. i have some 130$ knives that are junk and some that are amazing, so its not exact science here.

after $250 is starting diminishing returns, meaning price goes up for different things that dont matter if you just use it as a tool and you dont care about a knife as a part of you.
but consider a 200$ knife very good in most instances.

There are some good cheap folders like the rat 1 and rat 2 for example, but they do not compare to 200+ knives what so ever. so this is just a general chart.
 
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PuddleMonkey said:
I bought a $200 folder and thought it was perfection and flawless. Then I bought a $400 one and ignored the $200 one. Now I'm buying multiple $1,000 folders and find the $200 knives to be straight garbage. This has all taken place in the last 30 days.
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Exactly this... Fml
 
Mo2 said:
$50 are good for nothing. letter opening only and excessive sharpening the blade because it gets dull so fast. terrible quality and function.
$50-100 are expensive letter openers with crap quality and steel. marked up for profits.
$100-150 are getting better depending the brand. mostly marked up for profits, with low quality construction usually from china
$150+ is the start of a good folder quality, steel, materials and function. i have some 130$ knives that are junk and some that are amazing, so its not exact science here.

after $250 is starting diminishing returns, meaning price goes up for different things that dont matter if you just use it as a tool and you dont care about a knife as a part of you.
but consider a 200$ knife very good in most instances.

There are some good cheap folders like the rat 1 and rat 2 for example. so this is just a general chart.
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Respectfully, and this is just my opinion, but those descriptions are in no way an accurate assessment of each price point. There are too many different options out there to be so all encompassing.

Now if you were speaking to a specific knife or manufacturer, then you could be spot on.
 
JohnnyBlades said:
So I have been casually observing these forums for a few months now. One thing I can't fully understand is the obsession with folding knives. Now I like folders, I have 5 of them(admittedly, several mtech/tac force models), but I just can't imagine spending more than 50$ on one. It boggles my mind people spend 200$ plus on them. I get it, some people just have enough funds to spend and want something, but for me there are so many vastly superior fixed blades in the>100$ price range that I would be very hard pressed to ever consider one of the premium folders that so many members on here boast. Just a thought...
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I really can't see how buying a quality folder would 'boggle' anyone's mind. The fact is, most people in most areas in this country cannot carry a big SHTF fixed blade everywhere they go, at least not without being seen with suspicion. And as already mentioned, a good folder works FAR better for most everyday tasks a person in the city will need a knife for.

There are lots of people with modest finances who regularly blow $150-$200 for a night out on the town. There are lots of so-called 'poor kids' who are somehow walking around in $300+ basketball shoes. It all depends on what someone values and enjoys.

I personally have more use for a folder for everyday tasks than a 'badass" fixed blade for some zombie apocalypse scenario, but that's just me. I own a few good fixed blades, but don't see the need for more, because I don't have much use for them in my everyday life. Someone else like yourself will see things differently. **Most people's minds would be boggled that ANYONE would collect ANY knives, fixed blades OR folders.**

Jim
 
bt93 said:
Gaston, just because you destroy your classic Al-Mar batoning that does not make your cheap Kershaws better. It still makes me and many others on this forum about sick that you did that to such a fine knife. You don't baton folders, period. Just walk away and don't say anything else on the subject.
The pin construction on those classic knives work just fine, they're lighter and capable of lasting longer than most people live provided the user knows how to use a knife like a knife and not some silly folding hatchet. There are a lot of 30 year old fixxies that weren't made for batoning as well.
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I do not baton, EVER, but only did some very mild loose wrist chopping on 2" branches with the Al Mar SERE...

I find batoning utterly useless as a "bushcraft" technique, because it causes micro-folds instantly, even splitting narrow branches, and this with knives that showed no micro-folding in thousands of chops...

This is because chopping cross-grain carries the edge into the wood past the apex, which allows the wood grain to evenly support the edge apex, while batoning with the grain concentrates the stress on the apex alone, and also the grain itself has a tendency to put asymmetrical loads on the apex, causing barely detectable micro-folds...

Now micro-folds can "hang on" without chipping for a long time, which is why most people do not notice them (or make a habit to run their nails to see them). A micro-fold still means edge damage that will remove far more metal than it should to fix...

Just as with all the CPM steels I have tried, that can't even be used on big knives to chop without micro-folding instantly on every hit, batoning is for people who open their edges well past 20 degrees per side, and thus are not really knives at all, but chisel tools...

Either that, or they don't know enough to even notice that their edge are micro-folded...

Please don't ever say I baton my knives, as that is about the only way you can hurt my feelings...

Gaston
 
It boils down to personal preference. For years and years, $50 was my max to spend on most any knife. I got into khukuris about 15 years ago and found that I could get a marvelous handmade knife for under 200 dollars. They still remain my number one passion.

However, when it came to folding knives, I felt the same as the OP. Why drop $200 on a folder when my Kershaw or Spyderco could do the same thing.

Then I splurged on a ZT. It was over 200 bucks, but I had some money in my pocket and just took the plunge.

They quality between your very good $50 folder and your $250 folder is undeniable. Fit, finish, blade performance. There is no question that the lock up and strength of the ZT630 in my pocket is better than the Endurance 4 I keep in my desk drawer at work. Please keep in mind that I love that Endura. It's a very good knife and has held up to over 10 years of use.

I don't think the main sticking point is being able to fathom why someone would spend big bucks on something. I think the harder issue for most is figuring out what kind of deminishing return you end up with. That's different for everyone.

My grandfather is a 90 year old who was born a poor farm boy. Actually, that is putting him too high in status. "Farm boy" implies his family owned a farm. They did not. Just very poor rural folks. To him, spending more than 20 bucks on a pocket knife is absurd.

My personal cutoff is about $250. I use my knives, and I am not (and probably will never be) at a financial point where I can bugger up a $400 folder and not feel sick to my stomach. For me, fit and finish at the academic level is not worth the premium.

For others, $1000 is their jumping off point. Good for them, and I hope they continue to get enjoyment out of the hobby.
 
JohnnyBlades said:
I like TOPS knives a lot...I might sound crazy but I (almost) EDC a team jackal 5, when l'm out and in clothing that will conceal it.

My practical, all around, backwoods/bushcraft knife is the TOPS silent hero, although as far as a single option kit for survival in the woods, I would choose my Wolfpax 2 kit. It's 2 blades so I can't call it a 1 tool option, but the little ax out chops some premium big choppers I own, and the wolf Pup aces any sort of fine cutting test. Not an optimal self defense tool, but it could hypothetically do damage, and realistically self defense in the woods isn't a top priority...I could use the little blade to make a wood spear that would be far more effective for such tasks than any hand ax or big blade would be.

There are just so many fixed blades out there in the 200-300$ range that I would rather buy than any folding knife out there. Right now I lust for the Zombie tools Felon. Yeah yeah, a lot of purists get turned off by the post-apocalyptic motif, but it's just smart marketing, and the felon is an aggressive interpretation of an iconic American knife design executed by proven talented craftsmen using top quality materials. I want it. Would I ever use it in combat? Realistically, probably never. But I'm sure it would be beyond fun to go ham with it in the woods. And it's just bad ass.

The TOPS sxb is another guilty pleasure. Under 200$, built like a tank, it annihilates wood. Dramatically overbuilt, the sheath kind of sucks, not always convenient to carry, and it might draw some strange looks from regular people on a hike or camping trip. In spite of all that, it is super fun and an absolute beast...I find myself grasping for reasons to start a fire.
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Reasonable enough--thanks for the reply. I prefer to drop the bigger bucks on fixed blades as well... Busse and Randall Made Knives gets most of my spending money. And while there are less costly and very, very good options out there, I simply like those, so I get them when I can (no claims of magic superiority, etc... only taste/ preference). I'm sure the Kabars and Beckers I have can handles the same tasks, mostly.

As for folders, I edc an Emerson Super 7; it was a gift from someone who passed and very sentimental. It's also a very good knife in my estimation. That said, I get your arguments.
 
Gaston444 said:
I do not baton, EVER, but only did some very mild loose wrist chopping on 2" branches with the Al Mar SERE...

I find batoning utterly useless as a "bushcraft" technique, because it causes micro-folds instantly, even splitting narrow branches, and this with knives that showed no micro-folding in thousands of chops...

This is because chopping cross-grain carries the edge into the wood past the apex, which allows the wood grain to evenly support the edge apex, while batoning with the grain concentrates the stress on the apex alone, and also the grain itself has a tendency to put asymmetrical loads on the apex, causing barely detectable micro-folds...

Now micro-folds can "hang on" without chipping for a long time, which is why most people do not notice them (or make a habit to run their nails to see them). A micro-fold still means edge damage that will remove far more metal than it should to fix...

Just as with all the CPM steels I have tried, that can't even be used on big knives to chop without micro-folding instantly on every hit, batoning is for people who open their edges well past 20 degrees per side, and thus are not really knives at all, but chisel tools...

Either that, or they don't know enough to even notice that their edge are micro-folded...

Please don't ever say I baton my knives, as that is about the only way you can hurt my feelings...

Gaston
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure you had a video about your Al-Mar and what I saw I'm calling baton.
 
Mo2 said:
$50 are good for nothing. letter opening only and excessive sharpening the blade because it gets dull so fast. terrible quality and function.
$50-100 are expensive letter openers with crap quality and steel. marked up for profits.
$100-150 are getting better depending the brand. mostly marked up for profits, with low quality construction usually from china
$150+ is the start of a good folder quality, steel, materials and function. i have some 130$ knives that are junk and some that are amazing, so its not exact science here.

after $250 is starting diminishing returns, meaning price goes up for different things that dont matter if you just use it as a tool and you dont care about a knife as a part of you.
but consider a 200$ knife very good in most instances.

There are some good cheap folders like the rat 1 and rat 2 for example, but they do not compare to 200+ knives what so ever. so this is just a general chart.
Click to expand...

While I've seen $50 knives that don't even qualify as letter openers, with a little effort, or in the case of Buck and Victorinox, no effort, $50 can get a fine knife. I can understand your opinion of having to sharpen the blade, but if like me you use your knife for casual purposes, you don't sharpen that often. At most I'll spend a few seconds touching up my blades just once a week.
As far as $50-$100 range, it takes effort to find a bad blade, really. Maybe you won't get a premium steel but otherwise you should be able to get a very serviceable knife.
 
I only own 2 fixed blade knives, a Dozier Straight Personal and a custom Graham Ringed Razel. Neither one gets any carry time because of the absurd carry laws in Kali; walk around with one on your belt in
plain sight and everything is fine, throw on a jacket or sweatshirt and it is now "concealed" and you have just committed a felony. I would certainly ditch some folders for fixed blade carry were it not for the
semantics of these dumb laws....
 
JohnnyBlades said:
In my mind, the role of a folder is pretty much limited to small everyday cutting tasks, 95% of which can be accomplished by a blade <50$
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I'm not a collector. I use knives on a daily basis and my opinion about folding knives is about the same as yours. I had many different folding knives many, expensive and cheap knives. I don't care for them at all even though I loved the ingenuity, superb craftsmanship and engineering behind some of those concepts. But they still can't replace my fixed blades and can't do anything more or better than some 'ordinary' pocket knife like my Victorinox, an Opinel or a multi-tool like my Leatherman, at least for what I need them to do.

I really tried to find a use for them and to justify their low benefit-cost ratio in comparison to my pocket knives/multi-tools or fixed blades, but I couldn't so I got rid of all of them (even those designs I really liked).
 
I love folders and fixed blades equally:

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I try to use and carry fixed blades whenever I can, but the realities of my day-to-day life, spent mostly in a large city, dictate that folders be the go-to choice. However, there are a lot of details to folders that make them fun and interesting that fixed blades lack (more complex construction, opening mechanisms, smoothness of action, pocketability, slimmer profile, etc.).
 
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