What's up with makers who don't respond to e-mails?

[severedthumbs]

with lots of makers if you are not on the secret buddy list you will get ignored for a while.

 

[Mike Carter Custom Knives]

I had an experience today that fits nicely into this discusssion. Someone emailed me about ordering a knife. I responded immediately and then got this kickback on the email:

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
(address deleted)
SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection:
host hrndva-smtpin01.mail.rr.com [71.74.56.243]:
554 5.7.1 - ERROR: Mail refused - <208.76.82.135> - See http://security.rr.com/cgi-bin/block-lookup?208.76.82.135

As luck would have it, this guy happened to include his BF name in his message to me and I was able to contact him via PM on BF and the deal was done. Otherwise, he might have assumed that I just ignored him and never responded. He said he was receiving other email but for some reason his service refused mine.

 

[cj65]

I assume there are some knife makers that probably spend much more time in their shop making knives rather than corresponding with honest customers, fan boys, lonely peoples, nut jobs. Web sites and email marketing may actually bring too much business to a small maker, giving him more business than he can handle. I may suggest an auto answer or out of office reply message to satisfy the problem. Those with delicate feelings and thin tender skin can at least relish in the auto reply from the maker. This would not be a viable solution to the situation above however.

 

[mndart]

Follow up with a call.

Openly published email addresses get scraped and sniffed my spam list creators and this equal tons of spam, and most makers I see around here publish their email addy (thank you!! ) If you are not already in person's address book you may well land in spam land, which can also be crowded.

 

[Shotgun]

Dan

Yo dude, where's my knife?
Chris




























I gotta say I was annoyed at first that there weren't many updates but then you look at the big picture of what Dan, here for instance, is doing. He makes a lot of freaking knives and holds a job teaching ...:barf:...college kids. I'm surprised he's not writing "3V, NCM, SS" on all his grading and updating us with technical CAD notes.

 

[teacher]

Failing to respond to email is not much different than failing to get a project completed within a year of its due date or failing to update payment lists in a timely manner. In each instance, the maker is communicating to the buyer that he believes his time is more valuable than that of everyone else. I don't think that the intent, but thats the message that gets delivered.

I totally agree....... :thumbup:

A big +1 to this one 'powernoodle'..........
You hit the nail squarely on the head and drove it home.

There is a lot more I am tempted to say........ all factual. But for now I am just gonna let it ride and keep my mouth shut and totally agree with what you have said here.

Because if I get started I will most likely say too much and start a war.....

edit- decided it better not to name a name:foot:

But yeah Lorenzol, that was pretty ironic.

Ken44, you and Lorenzol crack me up. *shrug*
:thumbup:

 

[Ren the devils trailboss]

Most makers I know are a one horse show. That said. I know that a good knife maker and friend of mine will receive up to 300 emails a day from people, suppliers, product inquiry. There is just no way he can answer them all.

 

[cj65]

Most makers I know are a one horse show. That said. I know that a good knife maker and friend of mine will receive up to 300 emails a day from people, suppliers, product inquiry. There is just no way he can answer them all.

He can with an auto reply answer, "Due to priorities-filling orders, I am not able to correspond via email at this time. Your business is of value to me, please allow me (x amount of time) to adequately respond personally to your question. You may want to check my FAQ section to see if your question is properly addressed there. Thank you for considering Brand ABC knife for your cutlery needs." It is just a good way to manage this resource for a one man show. Or the knife maker needs to employ the milf, hottie, or secretary to help with admin responsibilities. OK< enough of my armchair business quarterbacking!

 

[teacher]

Most makers I know are a one horse show. That said. I know that a good knife maker and friend of mine will receive up to 300 emails a day from people, suppliers, product inquiry. There is just no way he can answer them all.

I can totally understand that side of the story, there is no way one man could get a handle on that.

I don't know what it is... but there has to be some answer to the problem. Otherwise, good people who just want a knife get pissed off and sooner or later problems develop.

Cause, just like John T Wylie Jr said back in post # 39 about "poor communication" .......... it can work against you.

'Word of mouth', in other words; can work for you or it can work against you.
It also cannot be underestimated.

When a maker gets that big & is in that much demand I am sure it is much more than a handful to "sort through" each and every day. It seems almost like a "Cache 22" situation...........

To those makers that do "runs" of knives... if they would just do a weekly update... most people would be more than happy. I personally do not think that is too much to ask....
.....especially if a "run" is a year or more past the original projected completion time.
Also a realistic completion date from the outset would be most appreciated...... not 49 excuses of why it did not happen. :thumbup:

Again, I don't know what the answers are for knife makers.
In my business, in our busy season we literally get a couple of hundred phone calls a day. We have to hire people to answer the phone....... otherwise, we lose. Simple as that.

Maybe when a makers gets to where he cannot handle it alone, and still have time to make knives; he needs to hire some extra help. That would only seem to make sense.

And yeah, I know a lot of that mountain of emails are probably just "bs" stuff.... people wanting info, prices, endless questions, etc., etc.
But, that is no different from the phone calls my business gets.

We can either deal with them or gripe about the so many "stupid" questions and 'bs' the calls contain.

We can either "win" or "lose".... and most of that boils down to customer service.

Yeah, sad to say, we "lose" a few... but we strive to "win" them all..... :thumbup:

Just my .02..............

 

[lava_lamp]

Some very well-known and successful people in the knife world post to this forum and some of them have been known to answer an email and return a call. Sal Glesser and Chris Reeve come to mind. It's hard for me to believe that either of those guys has any more time than one of the smaller knifemakers mentioned in this thread. I think Sal and Chris and many others are just more courteous.

Edit: Just to clarify, I don't have a dog in this fight and have no experience with any of the makers named in or participating in the thread. Good wishes to all.

 

[Daniel Koster]

Shotgun = LMAO


My favorite email of all time goes something like this:


-----------------------------------
Hey, Dan.

What's the status/ETA/etc of my knife?

I know you've been posting updates in that thread on your forum, but I don't have time to read it all.

Signed,

B.
----------------------------------------



(I wonder if I started copying verbatim some of the emails I get from people it might help some folks be a little more understanding why it takes so long to reply to emails.)

So this guy has no time to read the forum and he wants me to research it for him....not to mention...I don't know who he is....?!?



I'm not accusing anybody here of doing it....I'm just hoping some of you will cut us makers some slack given what we have to deal with. I'm not talking about getting SPAM in my inbox....we all get that and have to deal with it likewise. I'm talking about getting email after email after email from literally hundreds of people and having to sort it all out. Not to mention phone calls, PMs, etc.


I can count on one hand the number of knifemakers I know that have a secretary or an office manager.

If I had to pay someone to do that, I'd have to literally double the price of my knives...and quadruple my output....and go full-time.

A little delay in getting an email seems like a small price to pay to me.


Those that have been following my forum know that I have been doing better....I do take the criticism contructively and want to improve my process the best I can...and I think that what I've got so far is doing better than ever before. There are still wrinkles to be ironed out, of course.


And I don't mind taking the fall for this....I don't see many other makers willing to jump in and take the heat....so go ahead and pile it on.

Just don't be surprised if it takes a while for me to respond to it all.


Dan

 

[Daniel Koster]

lava lamp - Sal and Chris do not make the knives by themselves. Their job is to make sales and 'run the show'....so it makes perfect sense that they would answer the phone and reply to emails. :thumbup:

 

[Daniel Koster]

teacher - knifemaking is a strange business. I've been in a few different occupations and this one is by far the most different in terms of how things operate. I'd just like to add:

knifemakers are not Wal-mart (oops, I opened the package and don't like it, take it back)
knifemakers are not restaurants (I don't like it, take it back and cook it again)
knifemakers are not business offices ("Hi, how may I help you?" = secretary)
knifemakers are not manufacturers ("X" product will release on "X" date guaranteed - too many factors can upset the balance)
knifemakers are not tech support (I can't figure this out, fix it for me)


and so on....




I hate to say it....but I see a very common thread in the complaining.

I think some of the grievances are very reasonable, and some are just mean-spirited attacks from frustration.

Just today a guy emailed me asking politely to be removed from my mailing list because I was sending messages too frequently. (which I did, gladly...don't want to be a pest). It's all relative.




I'm not interested in making excuses...I just want to clear the air for anyone else out there. If I need to get 100 more people to reply to this thread all saying that my communication with them has been stellar, I bet I can. They're happy about it. They don't have a reason to complain. Those that complain may possibly never be satisfied. I do everything I can...I love having customers....I eat it up the personal interaction. Come to a Blade Show and shake my hand, you'll see.

Like I said....maintain some perspective and patience....and I think you'll see that most knifemakers are very willing to talk and communicate...sometimes it's at our own pace and schedule....but we do enjoy it.

:thumbup:

Dan

 

[LorenzoL]

Sal actually finds time to invent lock designs and other stuff when he is not moderating forums or replying to annoying customers like me. And he visits Asia once in a while to check on his sub-contractors.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

It's hard for me to believe that either of those guys has any more time than one of the smaller knifemakers mentioned in this thread. I think Sal and Chris and many others are just more courteous.

Yes but it is hard to multi-task while making a knife , not so hard from a desk ( or laptop ). Not saying that they aren't busy , but you can't reply to email while physically working on a knife , you can reply to emails while on a phone call with someone else.

Plus as has been mentioned , MANY makers make knives after working a full time job and being with their family.

 

[stabman]

The people who automatically expect an email are too used to dealing with giant chain stores and mainstream businesses. The reason mainstream companies like Wal-Mart and places are always there to answer your calls or emails is because they want your money so bad.

The people who expect a reply are often those who have the courtesy to communicate with others, and expect the same in return.
Don't try to foist your stinky generalizations on me.

 

[teacher]

My favorite email of all time goes something like this:
-----------------------------------
Hey, Dan.

What's the status/ETA/etc of my knife?

I know you've been posting updates in that thread on your forum, but I don't have time to read it all.

Signed,
B.
----------------------------------------
(I wonder if I started copying verbatim some of the emails I get from people it might help some folks be a little more understanding why it takes so long to reply to emails.)

So this guy has no time to read the forum and he wants me to research it for him....not to mention...I don't know who he is....?!?

I'm not accusing anybody here of doing it....I'm just hoping some of you will cut us makers some slack given what we have to deal with. I'm not talking about getting SPAM in my inbox....we all get that and have to deal with it likewise. I'm talking about getting email after email after email from literally hundreds of people and having to sort it all out. Not to mention phone calls, PMs, etc.

I can count on one hand the number of knifemakers I know that have a secretary or an office manager.

If I had to pay someone to do that, I'd have to literally double the price of my knives...and quadruple my output....and go full-time.

A little delay in getting an email seems like a small price to pay to me.

Those that have been following my forum know that I have been doing better....I do take the criticism contructively and want to improve my process the best I can...and I think that what I've got so far is doing better than ever before. There are still wrinkles to be ironed out, of course.

And I don't mind taking the fall for this....I don't see many other makers willing to jump in and take the heat....so go ahead and pile it on.

Just don't be surprised if it takes a while for me to respond to it all.

Dan

Anybody who would write an email like the one you described above really does not deserve an answer..... simple as that. :thumbup:

Maybe, that is part of the problem for some knifemakers. When they do get so popular they cannot keep up with everything in an even semi-timely manner......... maybe they should have someone to help out in some capacity. Whether that be a family member, friend, or hired help... either part or full time.

Why should knifemaking be different from any other business?

Seems to me that IF something is done as a business...... things have to be done to keep up with the business..... IF it wants to grow.

IF growth is not a concern however...... I guess it is OK to just let things ride and let the chips fall where they fall. This is true for any business.

I see no reason for knife making to be any different.....

I find it hard to believe that someone having/hiring help would require doubling the price of their knives.... But what do I know..... I am just an 'old fart'.

And yes Dan, as I do follow your forum..... from time to time now..... I totally agree with what you say about yourself above. From what I see you are doing a much better job at updating & communication, along with working out the 'bugs' and "ironing out the wrinkles" so as to streamline your process.

I sincerely hope you continue and prosper. :thumbup:

 

[teacher]

teacher - knifemaking is a strange business. I've been in a few different occupations and this one is by far the most different in terms of how things operate. I'd just like to add:

knifemakers are not Wal-mart (oops, I opened the package and don't like it, take it back)
knifemakers are not restaurants (I don't like it, take it back and cook it again)
knifemakers are not business offices ("Hi, how may I help you?" = secretary)
knifemakers are not manufacturers ("X" product will release on "X" date guaranteed - too many factors can upset the balance)
knifemakers are not tech support (I can't figure this out, fix it for me)

and so on....

I hate to say it....but I see a very common thread in the complaining.

I think some of the grievances are very reasonable, and some are just mean-spirited attacks from frustration.

Just today a guy emailed me asking politely to be removed from my mailing list because I was sending messages too frequently. (which I did, gladly...don't want to be a pest). It's all relative.

I'm not interested in making excuses...I just want to clear the air for anyone else out there. If I need to get 100 more people to reply to this thread all saying that my communication with them has been stellar, I bet I can. They're happy about it. They don't have a reason to complain. Those that complain may possibly never be satisfied. I do everything I can...I love having customers....I eat it up the personal interaction. Come to a Blade Show and shake my hand, you'll see.

Like I said....maintain some perspective and patience....and I think you'll see that most knifemakers are very willing to talk and communicate...sometimes it's at our own pace and schedule....but we do enjoy it.

:thumbup:

Dan

Daniel - I am confused. You addressed the above to me.
Did something I said strike a nerve??

Maybe knifemaking is a strange business and different from all other businesses???? Who am I to say, cause I am not one.
I just like to buy them.

I also have had many different occupations through the years, and in most.... if not all of those..... in one way or another, it all boiled down in the end to customer service.

Now I would never suggest that knifemakers should be like the "are not" list you posted above. But, even knifemakers, when they deal with the public; must cope with some of the things you mentioned there.... I would think.
I would think that because any business that deals with the public has to in one way or another.

It would seem to me the better these things are dealt with the less "problems" arise in the end. Kinda' like the old "nip it in the bud" line of thought.

IF that requires extra help for a business to do it in a semi timely manner, is that not just one of the costs of doing business?
Is it unreasonable to expect knifemakers to fall into this slot just because they are knifemakers???

This is a serious question that I do hope some other makers will respond to also.

I am sure you have seen some "common threads" in complaints. I have in my business also. When we looked at it, most of the time when there was a common thread in the complaints; we were doing something wrong.

And I do totally agree with you, some complaints are just "mean spirited", some complainers.... no matter what is done..... can never be satisfied, some complain because they don't understand, and some just because they can.
I figure that is pretty much universal no matter what the business...... whether knifemaking, basket weaving, or parasail. :thumbup:

I do not hold to the old saying that "the customer is always right".

There comes a time when no matter what one does....... they will not be pleased. Then, for the sake of all involved....... it is best to send them on their way with a smile and good wishes.

But for me, that is a last resort; because like you..... I also love having customers and the personal interaction involved.

I think most people/customers do, "maintain perspective and patience"; on a regular basis. Good honest interaction and communication with them, whether as a group or on the individual level; helps maintain that.

I personally think that applies to any business, knifemaking not excluded.

As business people, I think we all need to realize our time is no more valuable than our customers. I think we need to do all we can to serve/communicate/talk/respond to them in at least a semi timely manner in one way or another.
If that means we hire extra help to accomplish this.... so be it.

Maybe that does not apply to knifemaking... but in my limited way of thinking.... I fail to see how it could not.

Best wishes for continued success ....... :thumbup:
Chuck

 

[KyleyHarris]

but I can tell you e-mails are NOT the right way to get a hold of the Busse crew. The telephone is, and it has proven itself to me on several occasions.

Although I have had e-mails to custom makers go unanswered, a simple telphone call has always been met with the friendly voice of someone who was more than happy to take some time out of their hectic day to talk with me about a knife I wanted to order from them.

This might be well and good for the Busse Crew, and I'm sure they are all great people. But not everyone lives in the same timezones.

RULE OF BUSINESS> If you place a method of contact on a website then all forms of contact should be monitored rigorously. Spam is not an Excuse, neither is laziness. A business should check their daily spam Just-In-Case.

Not everyone is an existing Busse fan who knows the ropes (or any company for that matter.. Lets not pick on busse) An honest website should say.. "try and contact us by email, if you dont hear from us in 2 days then PLEASE PHONE"

common courtesy is lost sometimes.

Fehrman are also a company that seems to never answer emails (Because they get lost) yet if you get them on the phone they are very polite and helpful.

That being said.. I've had no BAD EXPERIENCES with custom makers. we are all human.

 

[KyleyHarris]

I find it hard to believe that someone having/hiring help would require doubling the price of their knives.... But what do I know..... I am just an 'old fart'.

Teacher.. Trust me.. Dan is right on that score..

Many small business operators are barely making a profit to cover their operating costs and get a wage out of it. I am a software developer, and I make and sell knives as a hobby..

I get about 10-30 emails a day to reply to regarding my knife, of which I only make about $15US profit from and sell in low volume part time. I do it because I enjoy it. I also raise a daughter alone, and do a 10hour work day.

I reply as fast and promptly as I can because its the interaction that I love. Paying someone $15 an hour to answer emails for even 3 hours a day means that you have to make and sell 1-3 knives extra just to cover that off. and thats per day.. so I'd need to be making 20knives a week to pay for a part time secretary.. ( i only make 4 a week as it is )

Its kind of like youtube. popularity exceeds ones ability to maintain a comprehensive communication.

I guess I'm on both sides of the fence with this one.