What's up with Mid-Tech knives?

Call it what you want, but how is the consumer supposed to know what he's buying, especially compared to what was sold 5 or 10 years ago by the same maker? At the minimum it's brand dilution and could drop the collector value of the maker's knives. Not a problem for me, I use my knives, but a real problem for this business. If three people collaborate on the knife, why not put all three names or marks on it? If it's really a semi-production knife, why not have a completely different name for you company?

Take for example the new AG Russle Dozier line, current offering the Modified Personal. All the work is done out of house except for heat treat, final grind and handle attachment. The only difference between this product and others is the stamp Arkansas Knives vs. Arkansas Made. The price difference per AG's catalog between the modified personal and the personal is $10. However the personal has those butt ugly yellow handles. How is someone who buys this knife from a knife shop or middleman going to know what he's really getting? (AG does distribute to stores and gun show purveyors.)

A lot of knives are sold by middlemen. These guys often are bald face liars, I found more than a few at knife shows. Sometimes they don't know their stock and will just invent something. These new modified customs, mid-tech, collaborations, etc. give these guys a real chance to rip people off. It's like the Lile scam...the man's dead but you need to know the "dot" means current production, no "dot" means it's the real deal (I might have gotten that wrong.) Either way, the smart consumer now more than ever has to buy his knife from a maker or from a dealer he knows and trusts.
 
Originally posted by Kit Carson
Keith,
Any thoughts or feedback?
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Well Kit, this new model seems to me to be a collaboration and not what would be classified as a mid-tech. Many custom makers have the blades and titanium parts lazer cut. I have never heard of these knives being given a different designation. They are just referred to as custom knives. As long as all the finishing is done by hand I don't really see a difference.

To address brownshoe's concern, how is this knife marked? Is there a way of recognizing this as a collaboration from the markings?

I have not seen examples of all the mid-tech knives, but I do know that Rob Simonich has his knives clearly marked. This is not the case with the Branton knives. If you know the way Bobby marks his knives then you will know from the markings that what you are looking at is one of his mid-tech knives. If you do not know how he marks his knives, then this could lead to some confusion.
 
Keith,
Good question. We hotly debated that issue for months. I liked Phil's approach (COCK = Carson/Obenauf/CarsonKnives):) but decided to just mark them C2O (small raised 2) for Carson/Carson/Obenauf or C squared.
It doesn't have Carson anywhere on it. On the back side is the type steel since we plan to use a variety of them, and the serial number. I have a log book and every one is described in depth.
 
"the smart consumer now more than ever has to buy his knife from a maker or from a dealer he knows and trusts."

I think that this has always been the case.

Branton knife company is how Bobby's mid techs are marked. The Branton\Brends also have Walters flag logo.

I believe that we are talking about knives that all run over $200.00. There are a couple of Simonich knives that are mid $100. These are not impulse buy, point of sales items.

I have seen some mid tech knives(mostly Simonich) at gun shows. The prices I've seen are the same online and at my favorite knife shop.
They are clearly marked, but if someone is out buying these knives for their investment value, I suspect that it is because that is their choice, however misguided I feel that choice is.

All the mid tech knives being discussed are marked differently than their handmade counterparts.

These Mid Tech Knives that we are discussing are being produced by makers that have spent considerable time and effort developing their craft and establishing themselves and their reputations as knifemakers. My impression is that it is a point of Honor that they can bring knives with their names on them to market at a price that users can afford. If the quality slips so does their reputation and then so do their sales.

my .02
Mike
mumbleypeg
Simonich user
Branton\Brend user
waiting on a c2o in the elusive Left handed configuration.
 
All of my Mid Tech knives are marked with either, Branton Knife Company, Awendaw, SC with Mid Tech in the middle or it is marked Branton Knife Company. The reverse side has Walters flag with Brend Design on it. There should be no confusion. I do not see how this could be confused with the customs.

Bobby
 
Brownshoe:

In answer to your post I would have to say that the buyer beware. It is important that the buyer educate him or herself about knives and be a smart consumer. Certainly everyone you meet selling knives is not going to honest. Yeah I've bought some knives that have turned out to be not so great but I've done my homework and I'm more careful about who I buy knives from. A.G. has the most generous return policy of anyone that I know of. All that glitters is not gold. I have friends that make fun of me because I spend more that $20 on a knife. They ask me why don't I just buy those knives that they sell on Home Shopping Network. I mean 100 knives for $100. How can you beat that?
 
Originally posted by Bobby Branton
All of my Mid Tech knives are marked with either, Branton Knife Company, Awendaw, SC with Mid Tech in the middle or it is marked Branton Knife Company. The reverse side has Walters flag with Brend Design on it. There should be no confusion. I do not see how this could be confused with the customs.

Bobby
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For those that do not know how you mark your custom knives, if they are not all plainly marked mid-tech then there could be confusion. Not everyone is a knowledgeable knife buyer. This is just my opinion, but I think you should have a mid-tech mark on all such knives. I have seen many of your mid-tech knives with only the Branton Knife Company mark on one side of the blade and Walter's flag on the other. No mid-tech mark.
 
The Mid Tech article points out this term causes as much confusion as it resolves. For their specific reasons you can read the recent pieces.

Mid tech would seem to imply somewhere between hand made, and fully automated, so some crucial, presumable final features of the knife are hand held, maybe the grind and polish. On the other hand it also can mean somewhere in between "custom" (whatever that means when it isn't actualy bespoke) and mass produced. Of course in ten years time, it's quite possible the mass produced knives will still be significantly hand made, while the custom/handmade knives will be 100% cnc.

Leaving aside the impact on collectors, I don't see that knife makers have much choice but to pursue digital automation. It can be done, it will gain in popularity, and the results will be every bit as consistant as with truly handmade work. Succesful names will move towards being designers rather than makers. There will obviously remain makers of the unpopular and indiocycratic on a piecework basis. With "knife of the year" being tagged onto the products of those who have crossed the digital devide, it's clear where some think the future lies.

But the term is also a bit like Fusion in jazz. There are already quite a few makers on whom it doesn't quite sit right, and they are not going to use it.
 
I would like to make it very clear that I in no way think that any of the makers of mid-tech knives are purposely trying to present their knives as anything but what they are. Reading the article in Blade I got the impression that one of the makers thinks that making his mid-tech knives more angular and putting a flat grind rather than a hollow gring on them should be all that is necessary to clue people into the fact that these are mid-tech knives. For the people that know his knives this will be the case. There is lots of room for an unscrupulous seller to take advantage of an unknowledgeable buyer if these knives are not clearly marked. That same possibility arises with the Branton Knife Company/Walter Brend mid-tech knives.

These knives should all have a MID-TECH mark on the blade so that there will be no possibilty of confusion whatsoever. To me, there is absolutely no reason that for this not to be done.
 
Personally I really don't care what someone calls them, if I like a knife I buy it. How ever I would be interested in what the other Mid Tech makers have to say about this.
Btw if I am selling the knife I call it a custom and if I am buying it I'll talk em down because it's a Midtech.:) J.K.
 
These knives should all have a MID-TECH mark on the blade so that there will be no possibilty of confusion whatsoever. To me, there is absolutely no reason that for this not to be done. [/B][/QUOTE]

I do not see how someone can mistake a Branton Knife Company logo for a custom knife, but I guess it can happen. I made a few with that mark and now mark ALL of my Mid Tech knives with the Branton Knife Company, Awendaw, SC with MID TECH in the middle of the logo so that no one can confuse them with my customs. I hope this helps.

Bobby
 
Originally posted by db
Btw if I am selling the knife I call it a custom and if I am buying it I'll talk em down because it's a Midtech.:) J.K.
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This sounds like you have a little Ferengi in you.
 
Originally posted by Bobby Branton
I do not see how someone can mistake a Branton Knife Company logo for a custom knife, but I guess it can happen. I made a few with that mark and now mark ALL of my Mid Tech knives with the Branton Knife Company, Awendaw, SC with MID TECH in the middle of the logo so that no one can confuse them with my customs. I hope this helps.

Bobby
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That's great Bobby. The MID TECH mark on the blade just makes it easier for people to recognize. Glad to see that you are marking all your blades in this way.
 
Mid-tech, schmidtech. If I like the knife, and a reputable maker is hawking it to me, I'll take the sucker.

You think Rob Simofabich is gonna pawn off a P.O.S. on ya at the Eugene show? I don't. Call it what you want, Rob. If I see it on your table, like the knife and the price, I'll take it with a "thanx a heap" and be on my way. Don't care if you hand scraped it or burned it off a 'puter.

That C2O is a flat out collaborative effort. I don't see no mid-nothin' there. Many hands make light work. And any one of those hands is fine with me as far as putting a knife together. Good crew, Kit.

C2O is confusing me. Not as to how you got the logo, I see that. The prollem is now I'm starting to refer to CO2 as "Carson Dioxide".

You want a knife? Buy it, use it. Quit trying to name it.
 
Like this.

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I'm really not sure I yet understand what all a mid tech knife Is. What is the difference between a Mid Tech and a kit knife? Almost sounds like it's the same thing, putting the parts togather.
 
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