What's with all the Flakes lately?

ricsha

ricsha

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What's with all the Flakes on the BladeForum lately? Is it just me, or are there more now?

Flake Number 1:
Two weeks ago I saw a cool knife for sale in the Custom For Sale Section, an LT Wright Genesis, PM'd the Seller Fourboysplus, in Canada, agreed on a price, and paid by PayPal. He said he would ship and give me tracking the next day. I didn't hear from him the next day, or the next, or the next. I eMailed or PM'd him each day asking for tracking on the knife I had purchased. After 3 days of waiting, I got a message from him --he had a change of heart and decided to keep the knife, which had been a gift to him, and was refunding my purchase price!

No harm, no foul, I guess, but my funds were tied up for 3 days plus another 2 days that PayPal held them before releasing them so I could use them.

Flake? or no? I say flake; Seller Rule #1 is be sure you want to sell before offering a knife for sale.

Flake Number 2:
Friday I offered a Spec-Ops Rucksack for sale in the Gadgets and Gear For Sale Section. Within a couple of hours got a PM from Buyer panzertroop saying he'd take it and asking for PayPal address, which I provided. He responded with one word from his phone, "Great." I waited all day Saturday, and all day Sunday for payment. Finally get an email from him this afternoon, "Sorry, I'll have to back out of purchase, I had some fund issues this weekend."

No harm, no foul, I guess, but I lost my First-Page listing for Friday night and the Weekend (prime selling time) because I had immediately marked it as SPF. Now its down to the second page, and who knows whether anyone will see it.

Flake? or no? I say Flake; Buyer Rule #1 is be able to pay if you commit to buy. Saying "I'll take it," is a contract.

What would you do??? Post negative feedback? Report both to Administrators? Or, suck it up, and move on?
 
To avoid situation #2, I state (in my sale threads) "Funds must be transferred within an hour of posting 'I'll take it' or the item goes back up on the exchange."

Situation #1 is a tough one. I guess everyone has the right to change their mind, but the fact that he lagged and was unresponsive to your PMs shows they're an individual I probably wouldn't do buisness with again.

There's always the itrader feedback.
 
The posted Forum Rules said:

SECTION 2 - Rules/Procedures for Selling, Buying, Trading, & Offering Services:
The implementation of common sense is strongly encouraged beyond this point. This applies directly to the persons involved in the transactions.

Sellers/Selling -
1.Be 100% sure that you want to sell the item, have it in your possession and clearly list the selling price. There is no "testing the waters" or "gauge buyer interest".

Buyers/Buying-
1.Be 100% sure that you can financially afford to purchase the item before offering to do so. If you cannot commit 100% to buying the item, then move along. Be responsible and use your best judgement.
Click to expand...


Joe Duder said:
There's always the itrader feedback.
Click to expand...

If there is no completed transaction, Itrader is NOT to be used. A thread in TGB&U is recommended.

The posted Forum Rules said:
5.If a deal did not happen, there is no iTrader Feedback to leave.
Click to expand...

Please take time to read the posted forum rules:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/faq.php
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=746&a=98
 
I’m old and set in my way’s,but I place great value on my given word.Shame it seems to be non existent in many people.
 
With internet transactions here as well as many others places like 24 hr. campfire, and AR 15.com. I feel compelled to respond quickly and keep my word. These transactions are all pretty much faith based.
And to do less may damage one's reputation as a A+ buyer, seller, trader. So, I would do just about anything within my power to keep that from happening. Some guys obviously do not care about their reputation.
 
Four boys plus did the same thing to me two or three times with the same knife. In all fairness he did take good care of me in a prior deal, but I would be certain I wanted to sell before listing in the future.
 
I agree, don't drop a bomb on someone with iTrader, if you have not exchanged money or items because what will happen is infractions will follow. A thread (if warranted) in this section is a much better choice for bringing attention to a problem. If a person flakes out repeatedly and it becomes a habit they don't need to be here.
 
Sounds like fourboys has done this (possibly/allegedly) four times before, almost sounds like a habit. Whether it's a habit or not, kinda sounds as though he's comfortable behaving this way.
 
I've always operated on the principle that a man's word is his bond... and I believe that most others do to. Certainly, the vast majority of folks I've met and dealt with on this Forum operate the same way I do. There are, however, a few who do not. I guess they are best avoided at all cost (lest it cost you!).

Since the rules are clearly stated that Itrader cannot be used (since there was no completed transaction), this Good, Bad and Ugly thread is the only way I see to warn others away. It is not my purpose to flame anyone, but to ask questions, and perhaps warn others away.

Perhaps the guys I named will see themselves and change their ways ...or not.

Like others, I've been scammed a couple of times on "the bay" but I didn't see it coming here.
 
Joe Duder said:
Sounds like fourboys has done this (possibly/allegedly) four times before, almost sounds like a habit. Whether it's a habit or not, kinda sounds as though he's comfortable behaving this way.
Click to expand...

This this is truly the case, then I will personally visit the issue. I would of course like to hear from the other folks that this has happened to before taking any action.

I'll also use this as an opportunity to clarify something that a few members have posted about in other places regarding this exact topic. We do not look for opportunities to be heavy handed or to bust someone's balls as it were for no reason. It's clear that 99% of the time, some members do behave in such a way that leaves us with little choice but to use the moderator controls to take action to correct that behavior. Removal of their account is the biggest thing we do (banning). Unfortunately, when these folks get onto other online discussion places they tell a tale of abuse and woe, how they were treated so unfairly and how the mods are very snarky, mean spirited bullies, etc. However, they do ALWAYS neglect to explain how their behavior influenced our decision to ultimately give them the boot. Instead they choose the sympathy card and if someone is capable of lying to such a such an extent, they may not hesitate in lying about bigger things. These people do not understand what integrity means, no clue what honesty is, have no need for accountability because everything that happens is always someone else's fault (no matter how obvious to the contrary things appear).

The majority of this community feels the same way. We try to run on honesty and honoring your word. But, not everyone was raised with that or as adults has an understanding of what that means. To those people we kindly ask that you just simply move along of your own accord as this place is simply not going to be a good fit for you.
 
I don't like the words "completed transaction". A person transferring funds is a transaction, but because he (the other party) didn't keep up his end of the deal, it's not "complete". Sounds like a loophole a scammer could use to play with other people's money for a few days and then decide to change his mind and issue a refund if he doubled it. I tend to think of things a bit differently though.
 
Joe Duder said:
I don't like the words "completed transaction". A person transferring funds is a transaction, but because he didn't keep up his end of the deal, it's not "complete". Sounds like a loop hole a scammer could use to play with people's money for a few days and then decide to change his mind and issue a refund if hasn't doubled it. I tend to think of things a bit differently though.
Click to expand...

You are right and that would apply if this were a fully automated forum, but luckily there are human moderators and we can tell what the difference is. You don't think we are all that stupid do you?
 
RevDevil said:
This this is truly the case, then I will personally visit the issue. I would of course like to hear from the other folks that this has happened to before taking any action.

I'll also use this as an opportunity to clarify something that a few members have posted about in other places regarding this exact topic. We do not look for opportunities to be heavy handed or to bust someone's balls as it were for no reason. It's clear that 99% of the time, some members do behave in such a way that leaves us with little choice but to use the moderator controls to take action to correct that behavior. Removal of their account is the biggest thing we do (banning). Unfortunately, when these folks get onto other online discussion places they tell a tale of abuse and woe, how they were treated so unfairly and how the mods are very snarky, mean spirited bullies, etc. However, they do ALWAYS neglect to explain how their behavior influenced our decision to ultimately give them the boot. Instead they choose the sympathy card and if someone is capable of lying to such a such an extent, they may not hesitate in lying about bigger things. These people do not understand what integrity means, no clue what honesty is, have no need for accountability because everything that happens is always someone else's fault (no matter how obvious to the contrary things appear).

The majority of this community feels the same way. We try to run on honesty and honoring your word. But, not everyone was raised with that or as adults has an understanding of what that means. To those people we kindly ask that you just simply move along of your own accord as this place is simply not going to be a good fit for you.
Click to expand...

Word.
 
RevDevil said:
You don't think we are all that stupid do you?
Click to expand...

Well since you asked....

Just kidding. I absolutely do not think that at all. I respect the Mods and rules. However, like I said before- this has happened (allegedly) four times. How long has this been going on? How many other people has he done this to that haven't come forward? It's not your fault as Mods, how are you supposed to know unless people speak up? Perhaps the "Completed transaction" rule in itrader keeps people from telling of their negative experience. It's rather intimidating starting a thread and explaining your issue with somebody in the FGB&U. Many people say things like "Suck it up", " Move on", " "You don't think we are all that stupid do you". I know we are all big boys and girls here, but some aren't as good with confrontation as others.

Plus not everybody would think to speak up because, after all, they did get their money back, but that doesn't make it any less fraudulent if he still continues to do this to other members on the regular.

With total respect, this is my humble opinion and concern. Assume no tone, hostility or attitude. My intention was not to make anybody feel stupid. If I did I apologize.
 
ricsha said:
What's with all the Flakes on the BladeForum lately? Is it just me, or are there more now?

Flake Number 1:
Two weeks ago I saw a cool knife for sale in the Custom For Sale Section, an LT Wright Genesis, PM'd the Seller Fourboysplus, in Canada, agreed on a price, and paid by PayPal. He said he would ship and give me tracking the next day. I didn't hear from him the next day, or the next, or the next. I eMailed or PM'd him each day asking for tracking on the knife I had purchased. After 3 days of waiting, I got a message from him --he had a change of heart and decided to keep the knife, which had been a gift to him, and was refunding my purchase price!

No harm, no foul, I guess, but my funds were tied up for 3 days plus another 2 days that PayPal held them before releasing them so I could use them.

Flake? or no? I say flake; Seller Rule #1 is be sure you want to sell before offering a knife for sale.

Flake Number 2:
Friday I offered a Spec-Ops Rucksack for sale in the Gadgets and Gear For Sale Section. Within a couple of hours got a PM from Buyer panzertroop saying he'd take it and asking for PayPal address, which I provided. He responded with one word from his phone, "Great." I waited all day Saturday, and all day Sunday for payment. Finally get an email from him this afternoon, "Sorry, I'll have to back out of purchase, I had some fund issues this weekend."

No harm, no foul, I guess, but I lost my First-Page listing for Friday night and the Weekend (prime selling time) because I had immediately marked it as SPF. Now its down to the second page, and who knows whether anyone will see it.

Flake? or no? I say Flake; Buyer Rule #1 is be able to pay if you commit to buy. Saying "I'll take it," is a contract.

What would you do??? Post negative feedback? Report both to Administrators? Or, suck it up, and move on?
Click to expand...

'Flake #1' is really a tough situation.... It was posted for sale, you bought it and paid. That's something that should require an acceptable explanation that the buyer can agree to, to void the transaction....Otherwise, that has to be looked at.

'Flake #2' Happens...Could be a number of things. However there needs to be a great explanation on the part of the buyer to why they no longer want to go through with the transaction.

I was in a situation yesterday where I purchased a knife in the custom section, but for reasons I will not elaborate on, the deal just didn't work. I really wanted the knife, the logistics where wrong. The seller and I tried to figure it out, but we both agreed in the end to void the transaction.

(Thanks again Darrell (dgguidry) an awesome A+ guy)

My point is, both parties should be satisfied with a cancelled transaction. There needs to be more to it than just 'a change of heart'.......
 
I received a negative feedback from a gentleman who sent me a PM but did not post an "I'll take it" as instructed in my sales thread. When I received his PM I assumed he posted but when I went to mark the knife SPF there was no post. I immediately sent him a PM but someone beat him with a post. Honoring my own instructions I sold the knife to the first "I'll take it. I sent a PM to the guy and explained that the first "I'll take it" post serves as a time stamp and the knife was sold to the first poster. Several hours later he PMed me back saying he gave me a negative rating and I have no honor.
I sent Spark two PMs and filled out the Bad Rating Report but it has not been removed as of yet.
 
D.C.Johnson said:
Four boys plus did the same thing to me two or three times with the same knife. In all fairness he did take good care of me in a prior deal, but I would be certain I wanted to sell before listing in the future.
Click to expand...

By same knife i meant same one i tried buying. Not same as op.

Just had to clarify
 
It's interesting that this has been brought up since I recently had an incident where an "I'll take it" was posted and then nothing, zilch, nada. I lost a sale to the next person because I told him I would wait for 24 hours. The first guy flaked but I had to wait and then lost to the guy that posted seconds because he purchased another knife in the meantime (can't blame him at all). Communication is the key to a good transaction and it only take a few moments. One last rant...how about the folks that never let you know that the knife arrived safely? All it takes is..."I just got the (insert cool toy here)...thanks so much!!!" It's just odd in my book at least...rant off!
 
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