What's with the CR Sebenza?

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StretchNM

Joined
Dec 7, 2006
Messages
2,806
A couple of months ago, I got to play with a Chris Reeve Sebenza for nearly an hour. I scrutinized it the best I could, then opened and closed it over and over and over. The basic Sebenza is a minimum $350 knife. Now, I'm not bashing the Sebenza, just asking.....what's the story here?

I've got a Bencmade mini-Skirmish. It costs about $135. Now, argue if you will, but BM is making some of the finest knives out there for an affordable price. S30V steel, 6AL-4V-Titanium, nice pins, high-quality washers, all the exact same as the Sebenza. What's the story here?

I saw NO DIFFERENCE in makers quality between the two. What am I missing?
 
I'm really interested to know what model BM offers that so nearly replicates the flawless fit and finish of my Sebenza. I owned a Skirmish, and it was nice, but still did not approach the same level of overall quality.

You do raise an important point though, and I think it's the biggest deficiency of the company. Chris Reeve Knives goes to great lengths to fix the price of its knives, keeping them (IMO) artificially high. Benchmade gives its retailers at least some more slack, but you can see that there isn't much variation between CRK MSRP and the retail price at licensed dealers.

I would absolutely like a large Sebenza, but the price puts it out of my reach right now. If retailers could sell it for a bit less, perhaps I would already have one. It's still on my "must have" list. :(
 
StretchNM said:
A couple of months ago, I got to play with a Chris Reeve Sebenza for nearly an hour. I scrutinized it the best I could, then opened and closed it over and over and over. The basic Sebenza is a minimum $350 knife. Now, I'm not bashing the Sebenza, just asking.....what's the story here?

I've got a Bencmade mini-Skirmish. It costs about $135. Now, argue if you will, but BM is making some of the finest knives out there for an affordable price. S30V steel, 6AL-4V-Titanium, nice pins, high-quality washers, all the exact same as the Sebenza. What's the story here?

I saw NO DIFFERENCE in makers quality between the two. What am I missing?
Click to expand...


GO GO Gadget Flame-Shield!
 
StretchNM said:
A couple of months ago, I got to play with a Chris Reeve Sebenza for nearly an hour. I scrutinized it the best I could, then opened and closed it over and over and over. The basic Sebenza is a minimum $350 knife. Now, I'm not bashing the Sebenza, just asking.....what's the story here?

I've got a Bencmade mini-Skirmish. It costs about $135. Now, argue if you will, but BM is making some of the finest knives out there for an affordable price. S30V steel, 6AL-4V-Titanium, nice pins, high-quality washers, all the exact same as the Sebenza. What's the story here?

I saw NO DIFFERENCE in makers quality between the two. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

Tsk tsk, Mr.StretchNM, you've been around for a while....

But ya know what, I'll save you even the time it takes to do a search. Here's a pretty good summery of all the Sebenza threads ever made.
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Its a Sebenza!

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That, is it. Maybe some Blah blah blah about it being a legend, ect. but thats pretty much a summery.
 
Let me start off, by saying I have owned both, but don't like the Sebenza due to the way it felt in my hand, very uncomfortable (for me) and I'm not a fan of the Skirmish, since I really do not like recurved blades AT ALL. But, the Sebenzas fit and finish are much better than the Skirmish, and the tolerances are indeed higher. Oh, and the brushing feature is cool. But they are the same materials you are right about that, but, the Sebenza's prices were fixed when there was no other ti framelocks really. Indeed, times have changed, and there are many more options with the same materials. Yes I think they are overpriced, and think they should be around 200.00 instead of 350.00, But one who cares what I think :p and if people are willing to buy them at that price, what incentive do they have to change? Demand dictates price. Oh, and some folks just like to have the "originator not the imitator". These people may be vain, but thats they' re problem!
 
I thought the same thing, until I got one. I had a B/M mini-Skirmish & I'd still call it "the poor man's Sebenza", but it is not a Sebenza.

It isn't the same quality, fit, or finish. It's very good & I wouldn't say the Sebenza's worth 2-3 times the money.

It's like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Mercedes. The Mercedes is VERY good, but the Rolls is a Rolls. It's the little things. However that Mercedes (& mini-Skirmish, for that matter), will do what you need it to do.

Personally, I used a handgun analogy to justify the Sebbie. I've EDC a gun for the last 14 yrs. & use & carry higher end guns. In the case of a new pocket gun 1 1/2 yrs ago, I could of bought a Kel-Tec 9mm (Any of the their 9mm models, doesn't matter), & I would've saved myself some money. Instead, I bought a Kahr PM9 & never looked back. Yes, I spent over twice the amount of money & the bullets coming out of the Kahr isn't going to be more effective than the ones out of the Kel-Tec, but the Kahr sure is nice to shoot (As well as peace of mind, reliablitly, & of course, a more comfortable gun).

Hope that helps.
 
CL01 is right I BELIEVE! iI have had both, and the sebenza is of greater quality, it can be taken apart, and still be under warranty, and customer service is second to none. They are the only place that has returned an email to me in 10 minutes, the only place to return my knife in 6 days after getting double lugs, and I have complete peace of mind knowing that what ever happens to my sebbie CRK has my back!
That being said the Skirmish is an awesome knife.
If the difference is worth $200 then go with a sebbie, it was for me.
 
I have handled both the Sebenza and the Mini-Skirmish, but do not own either of the two. Both felt like very high quality knives, with the Sebenza beating out the Skirmish by a small margin. I do think the Sebenza's price is a little steep... who knows if it were less I would probably have one! When it comes to tools like a knife form should always follow function, but I think I would go for the Mini-Skirmish just for its style... not to mention the substantial savings! (that's just my opinion, though) :)
 
I just wanted to jump in to point out that Stretch was very carefull not to flame the Sebbie. He just has an honest question that I have wondered about myself at times.

PS-I like the gun analogy, that a good way to look at it.
 
To me, the pivot bushing is what sets the Sebenza in a different league from the Skirmish. I'll never buy a folding knife without a pivot bushing for the rest of my life.

And of course, there are other things, like how the Sebenza looks much better (in my opinion, of course), the much better build quality, and the great one-on-one customer service, etc......
 
I have to point out that I knew the reputation and general price tag of a Sebenza long before this fellow brings his knife in. I mean, I didn;t handle the knife "blindly". So, I was already in the mindset of trying to determine what exactly it is that makes this knife so "special"..... at least as far as a minimum $350 price tag goes.

I don;t own one, so I don;t have the benefit of taking it out every 5 minutes and flicking it open and closed. I only had about an hour with it. Still....I studied it.... I mean, I studied it. I'm not new to knives or to quality workmanship. I couldn;t find it. I couldn;t find the difference that gave the Sebenza its reputation. I remember admiring it very much. It was, at first study and at last study, a very finely crafted knife. But where was the $210 difference? It wasn;t there. Or else I just missed it. It must have been fast.

I'd love to have one. Let's see, I paid $135 for the mini. The SKirmish might cost me $160. I'd probably go to $175 for the Sebenza before dropping out. And...I would do that for the name and reputation only, not because I felt it was worth another $15 of craftmanship.

As I said, I can;t pull it out right now and look at it again because I don;t own one. Maybe with all you guys have said, I could pull it out and say "Oh yeah. I see! Hmmm...I missed that the first time". Based on memory alone, I saw no difference in fit, form, function, or workmanship. It must've been fast. Man....I gotta call that guy and see if I can handle that thing again.
 
Just my two cent's worth....

The Sebenza is over-priced.
But some folks think that "more expensive" means "better".
Sometimes one does get what one pays for, but most times one just pays more for no appreciable gain.
It's like when folks are willing to pay more for Tommy jeans....:jerkit:
 
Hehehe I hear you Redsst :D

But really, the reason I want to handle it is to see what I missed. I must've missed something. There has to be a large diamond down inside the frame somewhere. Or maybe the titanium is really plutonium or kryptonite (although I'm not sure how I'll be able to tell if it really is). [Is there really such a thing as kryptonite? I mean really? Because I'd like to have a knife made with it]

At least now with the comments made, I can look again for smoothness in the pivot area because there's a bushing in there. I certainly didn;t know that before, and I do know that the mini-Squirm does NOT have a bushing there. The rest? I'm not so sure about. Anybody looking closely at a BM knife, especially the Skirmish, is hard pressed to find a flaw in the fit and finish of the knife....so fit and finish isn;t it. Maybe the Sebenza opens a tad smoother (I don;t remember - but I do remember it was smooth). THe materials used? Nope. They're both the same (exactly) material-wise...well, except for the bushing.

I just need to handle it again to see what I missed. I remember when I gave it back to him, there wasn;t a longing to have one. I didn;t give it back grudgingly. I just said "Very nice", smiled, and never missed it until looking at them on the internet today. Still, I didn;t miss it, I just wondered "Just what the heck is soooo special here?"

Quite awhile back I asked why Busses cost so much. The replies were consistent with what Darthsoaker suggested: "Hey! It's a Busse! You wouldn;t be happy if you didn;t pay that much for it! It HAS to cost that much. Besides, it has INFI steel! You have to hold one to behold it! It's guaranteed for life! Busse is great to deal with!" I don;t fault the guys, that's how they feel about it. I just wanted to know the real reason(s) Busses cost so much and, as I put into quotes, I learned why. ((( :D )))
 
CRK won the Blade show Manufacturing Quality Award in 2001, 2003, 2004, and 2007. I'm not sure about '05 and '06. I think William Henry won in one of those years. This should tell you something about CRK knives.
 
It's very well made, but I have several that are nearly as well made (such as the Caly 3). I had and used one for a couple of years, and I failed to see the attraction, and got rid of mine. And no, I don't want it back or take another look at it...

I guess supply and demand make it worth the price.
 
Stretch you're right Benchmade puts out a good product for the money. Some of their high end stuff goes for $200-$300, so not much less than the basic Seb. I really like the Sebenza and have a fairly large collection of them. CRK is the only production knife company that will make a left hand dedicated framedlock. Benchmade has the axis lock that is ambidextrous but it didn't really "do it" for me. I was into Benchmades for a number of years before I found the Sebbie. To me the Benchmade just isn't as nice a knife. It's not just fit and finish either, it's the whole package. A big part is how does it feel in your pocket? How easy does it deploy? How does it feel in your hand? To me the Seb wins hands down as a whole package knife. The key word being "to me". The Seb isn't for everyone and Benchmade makes a perfectly reliable product for a reasonable price. Heck in terms of value for the money the steal of the century has to be the Buck 110. I even read recently here that 420HC out cut INFI. That's really hard for me to believe. Botom line is that worth and value are very subjective. The market seems think that the Seb is underpriced, CRK has no shortage of customers willing to pay their asking price. So either the Seb is either a really good knife or there are a lot of stupid people out there overpaying for pocket knives. I suspect that you'll eventually buy one and then when you have it for a while you will wonder why it took you so long to take the plunge.:eek:;):cool:
 
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