What's with the CR Sebenza?

[Rich357]

Nothing.
I got wrapped up in the whole "Sebenza thing" but, having owned three, I have now sold them all and will never buy another.

Yes, they are very well made, but it ended there for me. To me the Benchmade 943 is a better knife than the Seb. The Osborne is a slender knife that is pretty much unnoticeable in the pocket but feels great in the hand, opens and closer quicker and easier than the Seb, comes with an S30V blade that doesn't need to be thinned-out, yet still locks up with zero play and is easily strong enough for anything that I will ever throw at it.

Then there's the price. My last Seb was a Large Classic Micarta which cost me $455.
My 943 was $122, my S30V Carbon Fibre AFCK $325



So for the cost of the Seb I got the 943 and the AFCK, two knives that even individually I consider better than the Seb.

There are a lot of interesting knives out there. I have 942, 043 and a couple of 806. They are very nice but I usually pick the Sebenza to go with me.

I'm not crazy about the edge thickness on the Sebenza. I would perfer a profile like MicroTech uses on the Mini SOCOM Frame lock.

Rich

 

[StretchNM]

But.....what about the Kryptonite???

 

[Vess]

You do realize that you can also disassemble the Spyderco Military, right?
Really any screw constructed knife can be disassembled, cleaned, and re-assembled.

The problem is, the screws in the Military (and most other production knives, including Benchmade and Spyderco and Kershaw and so on) go into the opposing scale itself. A screw goes INTO G-10, and that's the screw that holds the knife together.

So after about 3-4 disassemblies (accompanied by use that resulted in the need for disassembly in the first place), the screws will strip their sockets in G10 (or aluminum or FRN) and no longer hold. I should take the pics of my Military, all screws except for the pivot pin are new, and larger in diameter. With use, all the screws loosened up and no longer held, and in fact I lost one of the originals and didn't even notice until the backspacer rotated on me. But that was HEAVY use, clearly not something to do with a knife with just a nested liner.

Sebenza on the other hand can be disassembled and reassembled ad infinitum. I've done it to mine maybe half a dozen times aleady, and it's still in great shape. And of course the difficulty is not comparable, Sebbie comes with a hex wrench for it, Millie does not, and requires two screwdriver bits to disassemble while Sebenza needs just one. So for all intents and purposes, Millie is not designed to be disassembled in the field, while Sebbie is.

When you are buying a Military, ask the seller to disassemble it before shipping. I bet you that most sellers will say flat out no. Very few will meet you halfway and remove just the pivot pin and pop the blade out of the handle. Some will tighten the pivot pin, but won't disassemble. Now ask the same thing for a Sebenza. Most will say yes. Because it literally takes 20 seconds to have two scales, 2 washers, pivot pin and blade with a bunch of screws and barrels in your hands. And there won't be any damage to the knife or screws from that, nothing will get stripped, and it can be put together in 40 seconds. This is unimportant for many, but absolutely critical for some.

The only argument that works for me, in my mind, is that a Sebbie is 3x the cost of the Millie. And the question is, can I completely destroy 3 Militaries in the time it would take me to destroy a single Sebenza. And that's the end of it for me. I cannot imagine destroying a Sebenza, nothing I've ever done comes close to breaking it, and the ability to send it back and have it refinished/reblasted as needed essentially equals replacing the scales on any other knife on request, and most companies just won't do it, not for a $100 knife anyway, it's easier to get a new one.

So Sebbie just makes sense. This knife, THIS one, right here, lasted for many years and in all likelihood will outlive me. On the other hand, this Millie, THIS one, is the second I owned, one of two I own now, and it is very near the end of its road. So comparison that comes to my mind is a precision wristwatch. You can get one at a convenience store for $6, it'll last a year. You can get one for $400 and it'll last a lifetime. It's also a life philosophy, not a whim. If I buy something for my personal use, it has to last. Buying $6 watch every year for 40 years will cost just $240, just half of that $400 watch. But it's a conscious choice, I need this watch to work, and keep working. I can't have it fail when I need it, with the excuse of "it just cost $6, no big loss", because when you need it, and don't have it, price is no longer important.

 

[allenC]

The problem is, the screws in the Military (and most other production knives, including Benchmade and Spyderco and Kershaw and so on) go into the opposing scale itself. A screw goes INTO G-10, and that's the screw that holds the knife together.

You must have a very old Military.
The screws to the current Military (and all of the older models that I've seen) don't have screws that go into the G-10 itself.

I can't think of a single currently produced screw-constructed folder that has the handle screws going in to only G-10 or FRN.
I don't think you can even list five folders which have screws going in to just bare G-10 or FRN.

Check out these threads for some pics...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379131&highlight=military
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=426684&highlight=military

Notice that there are screws on both sides of the handle?

The Manix can also be disassembled, and the screws don't go in to G-10 either...
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379091&highlight=manix

 

[Rich357]

Hehehe I hear you Redsst

But really, the reason I want to handle it is to see what I missed. I must've missed something. There has to be a large diamond down inside the frame somewhere. Or maybe the titanium is really plutonium or kryptonite (although I'm not sure how I'll be able to tell if it really is). [Is there really such a thing as kryptonite? I mean really? Because I'd like to have a knife made with it]

At least now with the comments made, I can look again for smoothness in the pivot area because there's a bushing in there. I certainly didn;t know that before, and I do know that the mini-Squirm does NOT have a bushing there. The rest? I'm not so sure about. Anybody looking closely at a BM knife, especially the Skirmish, is hard pressed to find a flaw in the fit and finish of the knife....so fit and finish isn;t it. Maybe the Sebenza opens a tad smoother (I don;t remember - but I do remember it was smooth). THe materials used? Nope. They're both the same (exactly) material-wise...well, except for the bushing.

I just need to handle it again to see what I missed. I remember when I gave it back to him, there wasn;t a longing to have one. I didn;t give it back grudgingly. I just said "Very nice", smiled, and never missed it until looking at them on the internet today. Still, I didn;t miss it, I just wondered "Just what the heck is soooo special here?"

Quite awhile back I asked why Busses cost so much. The replies were consistent with what Darthsoaker suggested: "Hey! It's a Busse! You wouldn;t be happy if you didn;t pay that much for it! It HAS to cost that much. Besides, it has INFI steel! You have to hold one to behold it! It's guaranteed for life! Busse is great to deal with!" I don;t fault the guys, that's how they feel about it. I just wanted to know the real reason(s) Busses cost so much and, as I put into quotes, I learned why. ((( )))

You bring up Busse knives. Their painted versions aren't too pricy, IMHO, but I was surprised, and not at all happy, that after using my painted Satin Jack there seem to be a series of small ridges under the paint. I didn't expect a flawless finish under the paint but I certainly didn't expect to find what look to be a series of small ridges left over from the machining process. If Busse is going to leave little machining ridges under the paint they should, IMHO, mention that up front. When new, the paint is thick enough to hide the ridges. I had assumed the the paint was largely to prevent. I guess is wrong.

I have a couple of small painted Busses on order and will buy them but I likely won't buy another painted Busse. My Striders aren't perfect under the oxide but at least the small flaws aren't hidden.

With the CR Sebenza you can see exactly what you are buying, nothing hidden, with either the palin or fancy versions.

Rich

 

[Vess]

You must have a very old Military.
The screws to the current Military (and all of the older models that I've seen) don't have screws that go into the G-10 itself.

That's where that whole "a knife must last" thing fits in. I have a very old Military, if by "very old" you mean 440V version, which, let's face it, isn't old at all. And the knife is falling apart because screws on G10 gave way.

But let's say all knives could be disassembled and reassembled for as many times as I like (and yes, the Manix has screws on both sides, but those still get stripped pretty fast, very shallow). The question is, is one key enough to disassemble it in the field? And the answer would be no for 90% of production knives. With high end folders disassembly is seldom needed, but it does happen. So Sebenza is obviously ahead in that respect, all you need is a single hex on your keychain, and you can open any Sebenza, large or small, classic or regular, with the same bloody key. For other folders, you may need a variety of keys, for some you even have to take the scale off before you can disassemble the knife itself (Al Mar SERE, Emerson Commander), which is prohibitive.

Now, I also have a very old CRK Sebenza. Flat grind, BG42 steel, and it used to have Chris' signature on the blade until it got worn out with use and sharpening. Pretty old. As old or older than the Millie, because they went from ATS34 to 440V to S30V, and taken apart more times than I care to remember. It's still in as good condition as the much newer S30V hollow ground one from 2005, which was never taken apart. What's more, I could pack it up, send it to CRK, and it'll come back with polished blade, new lug and newly blasted scales which will hide all scratches it has now.

That's what is so good about it. You can actually work with a Sebenza, and when it gets too messed up for you to fix yourself, you ship it to the spa, and it comes back fresh and ready for more. And yes, you can just buy another cheaper knife to replace a worn one, but like I said, I prefer the same knife. A knife that gets passed between generations, that type of thing.

So it all comes down to do you want to pay $350 now and have the knife stand a very good chance of still be in good shape 60 years from now, or do you want to pay $350 in installments of $100 for a number of knives, and 60 years from now have the last of the bunch falling to pieces? This is actually something I saw discussed on another forum, a 30 year old wanted a knife that he would KNOW would last until retirement 30 years later. Suggestions? Sebenza, Strider and a pair of customs.

And this is coming from a guy whose collection is 30+ Spydies, half dozen each of Benchmades and SOGs, a few Kershaws, etc., and 6 CRKs (large and small, classic and regular, Mnandi and Mark IV fixed). The bulk of my collection is Spyderco. And I have all the heavies, including Chinooks and Manix. And with all those Spydies, I *STILL* think that Sebenza is an excellent knife well worth the money. If your first Sebbie is a small one, you might think "what's the fuss all about" until you carry it daily for 3 months, then you'll want a large one, and carry that for much longer. And then you'll know why.

 

[allenC]

That's where that whole "a knife must last" thing fits in. I have a very old Military, if by "very old" you mean 440V version, which, let's face it, isn't old at all. And the knife is falling apart because screws on G10 gave way.

And did you send it back to Spyderco?
If so, what did they say?

So it all comes down to do you want to pay $350 now and have the knife stand a very good chance of still be in good shape 60 years from now, or do you want to pay $350 in installments of $100 for a number of knives, and 60 years from now have the last of the bunch falling to pieces? This is actually something I saw discussed on another forum, a 30 year old wanted a knife that he would KNOW would last until retirement 30 years later. Suggestions? Sebenza, Strider and a pair of customs.

It's true that the Sebenza is designed to last a lifetime....but so are most knives.
Heck, I've got a Victorinox Super Tinker that's over 16 years old and going strong.
The only thing that has broken is the scissors spring, which Victorinox would replace for free if I sent it back to them.
I've also got a friend who has carried the same Schrade Uncle Henry stockman for at least fifteen years.
And before my father died he carried a Boker slip-joint for well over thirty years....it still works fine and is as sharp as ever.

Check out this little knife....
It was my very first knife, given to me when I was about seven years old.
It still works fine despite its appearance and the fact that I abused and neglected it for over thirty years.

The truth is this:
The only way a knife will not last a lifetime, or several lifetimes, is if the blade is sharpened down to a nub or if the owner abuses it.

The humble Buck 110 will last a lifetime if you treat it as a knife should be treated....and they only cost about $30.00 dollars.....and they're guaranteed for life too.
The lock fails or a pin becomes loose, you just send it back to Buck and they will make it right.

I once owned a Sebenza....it's something nearly every knife nut must do at some point in his life....and as nice as it was, the price was simply not justified.

It's a great $200.00 dollar knife.
But at nearly $400.00 dollars, it's just not a very good deal.

 

[hatchetjack]

It's " pucker factor" man! Same reason we'd drive a '68 Charger 440 R/T over a mini van if we could.

My Sebenza don't cut any better than my CRKT Crawford/Kasper but which one would I carry if given a choice? The muscle car of course.

 

[StretchNM]

...........................
It's a great $200.00 dollar knife.
But at nearly $400.00 dollars, it's just not a very good deal.

Big Al,
I don;t quite understand this statement. Do you mean to say "at nearly $400, it is a good deal, but not a very good deal"? Or do you mean "at nearly $400, it's a terrible deal"? or something inbetween?

I mean, if a knife is a good deal at $200, wouldn;t the same knife at $400 be a "no deal" (as in No Way! What are you, fookin nuts?!?!?) ?

 

[cutlerylover]

BINGO. Sebbie is a great knife that is priced $200 more than it should be.

thats it right there, but thats also an opinion...For whatvere reasons or personal thoghts people have...even though people consider them "overpiced" they sell like hotcakes...always have and most likely will for a long time...

Here is what sets it aside from other knives in my opnion...

- 1st thing I LOVE about the sebenza..NO BLADE PLAY in any direction what so ever...Sure I have had some higher end knives that had minimal blade play, but the sebenza has NONE...And if I want to take it apart to clean it when I put it back together I don't have to worry about adjusting the pivot screw or fiddling with it to make it just right...The bushing system is a nice addition you do not see on cheaper knives that offer similar materials...

- The second thing I love as mentioned is the fit and finish...this knife has no sharp edges or unconfortable parts, its cozy in teh hand, even if you don't like its shape you can't argue that its unconfortable because of say a pointy clip or hard angle...

- The materials are very good but again as mentioned even though they were new age back when other companies are makign knives with similar materials much cheaper...But cheaper for a reason...The overal quality is superb on the sebenza, and each one is looked at over and over again before it leave the shop, no other production knife gets half the attention a sebenza does...

- A bonus for me is that dissasebly of the knife does nto void the warrenty, somethgin that most production companies do not offer, I liek to clean my knives and to do this properly I need to take them apart...Also thats another thing...I LOVE my benchmades don't get em wrogn, but I have to mess with the loctite when taking them apart and puttign them back together, something I don't have to worry about with my sebbie...

Now...all of that beign said, the Benchmade Skirmish is an excelent knife, no doubt about it, and anyone who owns one is a happy camper, and it will perform very very well under everday cuttign tasks...But what the Sebenza offers for me anyway and many others is pefection...Im not often bothered by little thgins about knives...but the sebenza is the ONLY knife I ever owned and used that in no way not even a tny bit bothered me...Soem nice knives I have owned always had somethgin tiny about it that bothered me...maybe the poicket clip rode to high, or the lock was hard to use, or mayeb the finish was off a tiny bit, the blade was not cenetered and rubbed a bit when opening or clossing...Maybe it was just that say the notches where my thumb goes on the back of the sp9ine was a bit sharp when usign the knife hard...well the sebenza has no flaws that I could find...and its confortable to use...So to me...its owrth the extra $200 for sure...I am NOT a rich guy by no means...but knivesa are my hobby and you don't live all that logn so one day I said F it and I got me asebenza and I have to say I am happy I did...Its an experience for sure...

Trust me for 10 years I read about the sebenza and I went through my stages like hey it can't be all that great...Or big deal whats so special about it...Its the attention to detail that sets this knife apart from tis cheaper competitors...The very best production knife avaliable these days in ym opinion...who knows what the future holds but for now I LOVE MY SEBENZA...

 

[KeithAM]

Okay everyone, here's what it all boils down to:

"Sebenzas aren't worth it!"

"Yes they are!"

"No they aren't"

"Yes they are!"

"No they aren't"

"Yes they are."

Repeat 500 times and then start a new thread on the same subject about once a month.

Seriously, don't listen to anyone else on this thread!

If you want to know whether a Sebenza is worth it, go for the no risk trial: buy a used one (a nice one just went for $250 on the for sale forum). Carry and use it for a few months. Take it apart, clean it, lube it, and put it back together again. Carefully compare it to all of your less expensive knives.

Then decide FOR YOURSELF whether it's worth it. If you decide it's not, sell it. You'll get every penny back. If you decide it was worth it, you'll know what to do. And if you further decide it would be worth the extra money to get a shinynew one, go for it. Or, have the used one reconditioned to look like new for a nominal fee.

There. Simple.

Now the rest of you go away.

 

[cutlerylover]

It's a great $200.00 dollar knife.
But at nearly $400.00 dollars, it's just not a very good deal.

Opinion...not fact, and thats ok, everyone here as a consumer has the right to buy what they want, no one is forcing anyone else to buy a certain knife, it just so happens that CRK has a strong fan base for a reason...and no matter how much each sebenza owner thinks its over priced they still bought it anyway, lol...thats the difference...

 

[cutlerylover]

Okay everyone, here's what it all boils down to:

"Sebenzas aren't worth it!"

"Yes they are!"

"No they aren't"

"Yes they are!"

"No they aren't"

"Yes they are."

Repeat 500 times and then start a new thread on the same subject about once a month.

Seriously, don't listen to anyone else on this thread!

If you want to know whether a Sebenza is worth it, go for the no risk trial: buy a used one (a nice one just went for $250 on the for sale forum). Carry and use it for a few months. Take it apart, clean it, lube it, and put it back together again. Carefully compare it to all of your less expensive knives.

Then decide FOR YOURSELF whether it's worth it. If you decide it's not, sell it. You'll get every penny back. If you decide it was worth it, you'll know what to do. And if you further decide it would be worth the extra money to get a shinynew one, go for it. Or, have the used one reconditioned to look like new for a nominal fee.

There. Simple.

Now the rest of you go away.

lol, how true, these "are sebenza's worth it" threads just won't die, lol...Its right up there with the top re-occuring threads...like Benchmade ro spyderco...and whats with striders, and my favorite, whats better strider or sebenza...Whats better is the knife that you cna appreciate and use...Cost has nothginto do with it at all...If a $7 Opinel makes you happy your much better off than the guy who needs 6 sebenzas...lol...but in the end we all love our knives, and it seems that its just to hard to stay away from the my knife is better than yours mentality...for some members anyway...Or the my knife is just as nice and I paid half what you did theory...it doesn't really matter does it? Just buy what you like and what works for you...

 

[allenC]

Big Al,
I don;t quite understand this statement. Do you mean to say "at nearly $400, it is a good deal, but not a very good deal"? Or do you mean "at nearly $400, it's a terrible deal"? or something inbetween?

I mean, if a knife is a good deal at $200, wouldn;t the same knife at $400 be a "no deal" (as in No Way! What are you, fookin nuts?!?!?) ?

Allow me to clarify...

At nearly $400.00 dollars the Sebenza should be a ""no deal" (as in No Way! What are you, fookin nuts?!?!?)".

But the knife addiction that I, and others here, suffer from has such a powerful hold that it makes one ignore all reason and logic.
When I bought my Sebenza I was foolish enough to pay the full MSRP....that's how desperately I wanted one.
And after I got it I was rather surprised and disappointed that it just didn't turn me on like I thought it would.
The Sebenza just did not live up to the hype.

But in the Sebenza's defense, NO KNIFE can possibly live up to the Sebenza hype.

Oh well, you live and you learn.
At least I was able to get most of my money back.

 

[Rich357]

But, tha hype isn't from it's maker, Chris Reeve.

 

[cutlerylover]

Thats a big problem though for many people, is that they read so much about the sebenza and they maybe expect too much? Like a magic knife, lol...Its as good as it gets for what it is, a production folder...but I think the hype makes people expect something mystical...Its just a knife...Just a very nice knife, nothing more, nothing less...Would I like them to be cheaper...sure, don't we all, lol...but it is what it is, and the hefty price has not stopped people from buying them...I have yet to compare the sebenza to custom folders, but from what I hear its up there on the same level as a few...But thats not ym opinion, just what I have read...I am too broke to be buying up custosm to compare it too, lol, I wish I could...

 

[cutlerylover]

But, tha hype isn't from it's maker, Chris Reeve.

Good point! He makes them, prices them, and they sell themselves...

 

[Erasmus]

The Sebenza was worth it, to me. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I'm a cheapskate, but was very happy to pay $350 for one.

 

[DaveH]

So if CRK wins manufacturing quality awards year after year, is that hype? Or just the truth?

If BM is so great why doesn't BM win quality awards?

 

[allenC]

So if CRK wins manufacturing quality awards year after year, is that hype? Or just the truth?

If BM is so great why doesn't BM win quality awards?

Be very careful.
As a rule, awards are seldom given without "politics" involved.