what's wrong whit Buck Knives?

[stabman]

The reality is if these steels this week, elmax now, was 3V last week, were/are so much better in performance it's simple, no one would buy the lowly bucks.

That makes no sense.
There are better shoes than the ones I bought last...I bought them because they were cheaper.
They aren't as comfortable as others I tried, and they won't last as long...but I bought them because they were cheaper.

Just because something expensive is better doesn't mean people will stop buying cheaper options.

There are WAY better computers than the one I am using right now.
There are better phones (both home and cell) by far than what I have.
Certainly better clothing.

But I got the ones I have because they were cheaper, and good enough for my use.
Not because they were as good, or because other, more expensive options weren't better.

 

[Quiet]

What you fail to read is no one uses them. I've even said last custom I seen in the woods was a loveless many moons ago. Your fantasy land online does not reflect reality. The reality is if these steels this week, elmax now, was 3V last week, were/are so much better in performance it's simple, no one would buy the lowly bucks. Economics don't have anything to do with it. Hunters spend so much money on guns, ammo, equipment, leases. They got money. If the bucks were so bad they'd buy your elmax knife of the week. They would easily drop $400.00 on a knife and not even think about it.

Reality does not reflect what you say and that is the source of your dissent.

These "high" end knives go into collections and are rarely used. My brother who buys anything he pleases daily carries a tenacious. His Manix XL and Techno are nice as he says, but the tenacious is a better carry knife. His big user fixed blade is a cold steel soft carbon steel.

He is a collector and a user, he knows the difference. It's hard to see when you are only one one side of the fence. I've used all of his high dollar knives and none are so impressive that they just blow away the bucks. The knife I just bought him for his holidays gift is more expensive than any knife i ever bought for myself, by 150%. To include every knife I've ever bought.

You have a ways to go. If you come down you will see that.

All the logical fallacies, oye.

Everyone else, here's a pro-tip, please take everything Mr. Sandbag here says with the entire salt-shaker.

Thanks.

 

[Duane Sanders]

Where did you get the idea knives in premium steels don't get used?

Who told you that? You've been on bladeforums 2 months and your going to tell EVERYONE that no one uses steels other than 420 and 5160? Seriously?

Your logic is simply put DEAD WRONG.

Take a gander over in the busse forum, many go for 200 to more than 1000 dollars and get used REGULARLY.

How about Nathan Carothers knives in 3v used to clean elk, it was posted here no more than 2 weeks ago?

You need to read more and post less, your assumptions are dead wrong.

Key words of your post is who told me that. I made it clear no one told me. I am telling you what I have seen. Other members have said the same exact thing.

Stop reading what people are telling you and go out into the woods. Over the next decade you will be lucky to see anything more high end than a buck. Most don't even use knives that good and the most important part about hunting is proper dressing of the kill.

You just haven't seen it. So you're going to ask me who told me?

 

[shinyedges]

I raise animals on MY farm on which has woods lol I regularly use a Stihl 362 and cut trees down for my outdoor wood stove. I have butchered more animals than I can count.

My knives get used from everything like preping food to removing a 350lbs hogs head to making kindling. Your assumptions as usual are WRONG.

Your logic is WRONG.

When butcher day gets here soon ill snap a pic of a couple 300 dollar plus knives being used on several pigs. Yea 3v being used , who knew

Key words of your post is who told me that. I made it clear no one told me. I am telling you what I have seen. Other members have said the same exact thing.

Stop reading what people are telling you and go out into the woods. Over the next decade you will be lucky to see anything more high end than a buck. Most don't even use knives that good and the most important part about hunting is proper dressing of the kill.

You just haven't seen it. So you're going to ask me who told me?

 

[JD Bear]

And that's fine, no one is saying not to. Your indignation seems entirely self-sourced.

That's not how I was trying to come off. I have no real argument here. I just don't see the point in clobbering Buck...

 

[Duane Sanders]

That makes no sense.
There are better shoes than the ones I bought last...I bought them because they were cheaper.
They aren't as comfortable as others I tried, and they won't last as long...but I bought them because they were cheaper.

Just because something expensive is better doesn't mean people will stop buying cheaper options.

There are WAY better computers than the one I am using right now.
There are better phones (both home and cell) by far than what I have.
Certainly better clothing.

But I got the ones I have because they were cheaper, and good enough for my use.
Not because they were as good, or because other, more expensive options weren't better.

I'm not talking about what people buy. My brother is a real life example I go off of. I'm talking about what people use. If these knives were so low end as stated on the first page then people who need a knife would abandon them in favor of still cheap $400.00 options.

Can you explain why so many in this thread have stated they never see expensive customs used for hunting? I have seen the same over many decades.

I understand you high end guys rule the roost online but don't get offended when several point out no one uses them. Use a poor knife the next time you dress a large game animal. You will be begging for a buck.

The sparkle of high end steels and what people are telling Shinyedges is only online based.

Also explain why someone with a $1200.00 rifle and projectiles alone they use cost more than loaded ammo, $1,000.00 scope use a $40.00 knife. It's not because they are poor and it's economical.


You guys just aren't making any sense.

 

[Quiet]

That's not how I was trying to come off. I have no real argument here. IjustI don't see the point in clobbering Buck...

I don't think anyone is exactly clobbering them. Buck does make good knives. For many, they are amazing knives. And that's fine. As I said earlier, I myself own multiple Buck knives. I'm just waiting to hear back on something, and once I do, it looks like I'm going to own another Buck.

However, there are plenty of BETTER knives out there. Better performance, better materials. The key to understand however, is that though there are better knives, that doesn't make Buck knives crap. No one should think that, because that would be an untrue statement.

 

[Duane Sanders]

I raise animals on MY farm on which has woods lol I regularly use a Stihl 362 and cut trees down for my outdoor wood stove. I have butchered more animals than I can count.

My knives get used from everything like preping food to removing a 350lbs hogs head to making kindling. Your assumptions as usual are WRONG.

Your logic is WRONG.

When butcher day gets here soon ill snap a pic of a couple 300 dollar plus knives being used on several pigs. Yea 3v being used , who knew

Then go hunting with me this year so I can say I have seen another one since the last 30 years ago. You will be required to use it though.

 

[stabman]

Can you explain why so many in this thread have stated they never see expensive customs used for hunting? I have seen the same over many decades.

Well, my dad used the Busse Game Warden I gave him to dress out the last geese he got.
He wouldn't have paid the more than $300 they go for (if you can find one), but he was happy to use a better knife when he had it.

Other times he has used a custom knife I gave him, that would easily go for $500 even used as much as it is.

Now sure, the hunter going to Canadian Tire to gear up will be getting a less expensive knife, and many of those knives are good enough.
But there are better knives out there, and to think that they won't get used is just silly.

 

[Quiet]

I'm not talking about what people buy. My brother is a real life example I go off of. I'm talking about what people use. If these knives were so low end as stated on the first page then people who need a knife would abandon them in favor of still cheap $400.00 options.

Can you explain why so many in this thread have stated they never see expensive customs used for hunting? I have seen the same over many decades.

I understand you high end guys rule the roost online but don't get offended when several point out no one uses them. Use a poor knife the next time you dress a large game animal. You will be begging for a buck.

The sparkle of high end steels and what people are telling Shinyedges is only online based.

Also explain why someone with a $1200.00 rifle and projectiles alone they use cost more than loaded ammo, $1,000.00 scope use a $40.00 knife. It's not because they are poor and it's economical.


You guys just aren't making any sense.

The only one not making any sense here is you. That you're attempting to paint your absurdly small sample size as somehow indicative of all users is a laugh. Who are you to be making these nonsense sweeping generalization statements? "No one uses them!" "Well, I haven't seen them!" Ohhhhh well, because YOU haven't seen someone using an expensive knife, that must mean the millions of people who own expensive knives never use them, right? You've seen a few hunters, oh, and your brother, and suddenly, you've got a handle on who uses or doesn't use expensive knives? Is that really your assertion?

If you realized how ignorant you looked, you'd probably come to your senses and stop posting.

 

[JD Bear]

I don't think anyone is exactly clobbering them. Buck does make good knives. For many, they are amazing knives. And that's fine. As I said earlier, I myself own multiple Buck knives. I'm just waiting to hear back on something, and once I do, it looks like I'm going to own another Buck.

However, there are plenty of BETTER knives out there. Better performance, better materials. The key to understand however, is that though there are better knives, that doesn't make Buck knives crap. No one should think that, because that would be an untrue statement.

That's a great way to put it and I think you're right. I think people still want to use them regardless of the fact that there may be better tools for the given job. Specifically the 110 and 112. I think it comes down to want vs need...

 

[shinyedges]

Ive used many of the steels were discussing on a variety of farm related tasks up to and including processing animals. Ive compared edge holding while using the knives for these tasks heres a few I used:

Yes Duane ME personally using.

M390
Elmax
S35vn
1095cv
3v
420hc
D2


Just to name a few. If I put them all down the list would be rather long. I actually enjoy it, its my hobby. That's why I'm on bfc, I like learning and trying new steels and comparing... you should try it sometimes.

How much first hand experience do you have?

Then go hunting with me this year so I can say I have seen another one since the last 30 years ago. You will be required to use it though.

 

[Quiet]

That's a great way to put it and I think you're right. I think people still want to use them regardless of the fact that there may be better tools for the given job. Specifically the 110 and 112. I think it comes down to want vs need...

Yes, absolutely it can, sometimes. And also, there's other things like experience, lack of knowledge, and so on there also. As an example, a good friend of mine has a Buck 110 he carries on every camping trip we go on. It's rattley, it's beat to hell, but he still uses it because it's what he grew up with. Back when he was a kid, if you had a folding knife, it was a Buck 110, and it rode on your belt at Scout camp. He still has it. That's experience. For the record, I gave him my first Vantage, and he carries it as his office EDC. Dude likes a good Buck knife. Nothing wrong there.

As for lack of knowledge, another friend of mine was looking for a new knife, and was looking at Gerbers (which he hated) and Bucks. I asked if there was a particular reason why he was only looking at those two, and he told me that he thought they were supposed to be the best. I mean, I get it. There's a lot of history there. Hell, the phrase "buck knife" is in common usage in the Sowf, regardless of what the actual knife is. "Aw main, ah need ta cut dis rope, gimme ya buck knife, I leff mine in tha truck"* I digress. So, when I showed him knives from KAI, Spyderco, and a couple others, his first comment was that we are spoiled for choices. He'd had no idea.




*I sure hope my buddy never reads this LOL This is exactly how he talks.

 

[stabman]

Knives in the woods:

 

[JD Bear]

Yes, absolutely it can, sometimes. And also, there's other things like experience, lack of knowledge, and so on there also. As an example, a good friend of mine has a Buck 110 he carries on every camping trip we go on. It's rattley, it's beat to hell, but he still uses it because it's what he grew up with. Back when he was a kid, if you had a folding knife, it was a Buck 110, and it rode on your belt at Scout camp. He still has it. That's experience. For the record, I gave him my first Vantage, and he carries it as his office EDC. Dude likes a good Buck knife. Nothing wrong there.

As for lack of knowledge, another friend of mine was looking for a new knife, and was looking at Gerbers (which he hated) and Bucks. I asked if there was a particular reason why he was only looking at those two, and he told me that he thought they were supposed to be the best. I mean, I get it. There's a lot of history there. Hell, the phrase "buck knife" is in common usage in the Sowf, regardless of what the actual knife is. "Aw main, ah need ta cut dis rope, gimme ya buck knife, I leff mine in tha truck"* I digress. So, when I showed him knives from KAI, Spyderco, and a couple others, his first comment was that we are spoiled for choices. He'd had no idea.




*I sure hope my buddy never reads this LOL This is exactly how he talks.

Well said my friend. I think it can be summed up as a less desirable place to start, but a good place to end up. That's the road I went down....

 

[Frisky]

I think the Buck Vanguard is one of the finest hunting knives out there. It easily takes a razor sharp edge and holds it well for the task I use it for- dressing out deer. I can field dress a deer and restore the edge in less than a minute. It would be nice to have a knife in M390, but I probably wouldn't be as happy with the ergonomics and resharpening the edge might take longer. It wouldn't be an advantage. Now, if the Buck dulled in a matter of minutes, it would be a different story. I wouldn't put up with it. So, I suspect people like Bucks because they get the job done and resharpen easily. The same can be said for Moras, Marttiinis, Opinels and many other brands.

Joe

 

[Thomas Linton]

You couldn't be anymore wrong. You think, and you are thinking, that people buy Bucks because that's all they can save their pennies for. You're not getting that people buy them because they are a better knife than other options. People would gladly pay twice the price for another brand if it could out do the buck choices.

I could buy knives that make your Busse and striders look like bubble gum machine knives if I wanted to. I am just too practical to be that stupid. I know no matter what, that at any price I will put any knife in its grave from using it. It takes years up to a decade. Once you've done it and see the actual difference you will learn a lesson. The only knives that will be handed down to the next generation will be whatever knife happens to be the last I buy. Knives that see use do not last a life time and if one does last a life time it wasn't used much.

That's no issue for the flavor of the week crowd and you. You won't have the same knife in your pocket next year at this time. If you did and used it everyday you'd understand why people buy Bucks.

This is what you look like the buck users replying.

Humans couldn't have built the pyramids so ALIENS!
Bucks can't be good knives because ESEE!

Your economics models have nothing to do with it either. It's all about the knife. It would be nice if you stop deflecting.

You may know others who do not consider price when buying a product. The very few I know who do not consider price are very wealthy (at least by my standards) and tend to buy luxury items. The marginal price for the increase in quality gets higher and higher as you approach the notional "best," even within the Buck product line. "Normal" people consider price, if only at a subconscious level. They have other things to do with finite funds. Makers and sellers of goods have noticed this phenomenon and do not ignore it any more than they ignore fads and fashion.

Within the normal population, some have more and others less "disposable income." Only so many knives can be justified on the basis of need vs. want. Makers and sellers of goods have also noticed this phenomenon and do not ignore it.

Buck production knives are adequate and, in part, American. They were regarded as adequate, or better, when I bought my first 110 and Duke (both in 440C - harder to sharpen but held edge longer). The value seems to me to be quite good if the knife is a tool to cut things - amazing considering the cheap price. Adjusted for inflation, they cost a fraction of what they cost decades ago. Buck cannot afford to make their production knives better at their price points - except through the Looking Glass where the price of things is irrelevant to their quality. (Of course price does not equal value in a mathematical sense, but there is a price-quality correlation. See Harbor Freight)

People pay several times the price of Buck production knives and often get clearly superior knives - like Buck customs or Spyderco. Sometimes they do not get value commensurate with price. ( Sometimes they pay half as much and get 10% the value.)

You will not convince anyone in the middle here that Buck production knives are in any realistic sense the top of quality. Not even Buck. Hence the Buck Custom Shop for those who can afford better.

No more will I be convinced, as some have argued, that Buck production knives are junk.

I have carried the same knife in my pocket for eleven years - a Vic Farmer. It is adequate for my daily needs and does not frighten the civies. But I do not fool myself that Spyderco, or Benchmade or Enzo does not make better knives. I have some of those. Indeed, I wish i could buy a Farmer that holds an edge better, like a number of other knives I own.

Personally, I cannot (well, more than a couple of times) "pull the trigger" on the $200+ knives because, for me, I to not see the results of the value equation coming out in favor of that price. I do not feel less as a result of those decisions.

"Flavor-of-the-week"? Mostly I own slip-joints in 1095. Some were made over a century ago by the best production knife companies in the world at the time. Why, even when in excellent condition, they sell for inflation-adjusted prices that are far less than what they cost when new surprises me. Fashion I guess.

I recently bought a 110 to keep my old 110 and Duke company and to compare them. While the F&F on the new 110 are remarkable for the price, I like the old ones better. The Duke seems far superior to either 110. I wish the modest use it has been put to had not resulted in blade wobble. The new 110 feels even blockier than does the old 110, the old one has better f&F,and I like the harder 440C blade. (Silly me, I enjoy sharpening.)

At the end we are all knife enthusiasts. If one hopes to convince, consider if personal attacks are a turnoff to the majority.

 

[Guyon]

Please keep it about the topic and not each other. If a post contains "you" or "your" or a name, please consider revision. Or we can end this party. This post started problematically because of the insinuation in the title, and it's sliding further downhill.

 

[jill jackson]

People use cheaper knives because they work. I use them and I use higher priced knives, I'm not tied to any of them. Who cares? My granddad always said you may as well leave people alone, because they're gonna do what they want anyway. I've had people here jump on me because I have so many knives I don't use even. If I only had what I need I only have about 5, instead of 300! Buck makes a very decent knife, although I like the fixed blades way better.

 

[singularity35]

This thread is no longer about buck knives...