What's your integrity worth? 4%

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Gatogordo

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May 31, 2005
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I was reminded of this when I read a "for sale" ad in here asking for "gift" paypal payment. This has come up in my dealings a couple of times lately where someone wants me to send them a paypal payment as a "gift" to save the fees. I have refused and paid the fees myself but my view of the people involved was diminished. IMO it is outright theft, fraud, whatever you want to call it. If someone doesn't like ebay/paypal then they should ask for a MO, cashier's check or whatever but stealing 4% SHOULD be beneath both parties. Split the fees, raise your price to cover them, ask for the buyer to pay them, any of those are acceptable but cheating paypal out of money by fraud should not be. Shameful behavior. :thumbdn:
 
To heck with my integrity, Id hate to lose out on a potential sale :p After reading many users opinions regarding the topic at hand, Ive decided to always include everything in the asking price. Keeps things simple and everyone happy :) I do not have a problem with it either way though. I have a set price in mind, if the asking price & fee's exceed that, then I take my $ elsewhere. Some sellers try and make that extra buck but not all. They just look at it differently I recon, all is well :thumbup:

HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND!!!! CHEERS!!!
 
There is an argument that a sellers only obligation is to his customer... giving them the lowest price possible is a form of integrity... besides when has paypal really shown much integrity? Shutting down people's accounts for buying gun parts and knives? I've heard of people getting their account shut down with money still in the account for buying stupid stuff like airsoft...
 
Easy fix, use the payment owed under personal. No fee, and if you bought the knife, you do owe the money. Everything's fair.
 
The personal payment option must be different in other countries, I still have to pay a fee even if I use the personal/gift option. The other problem using that method is you
have no comeback if something goes wrong. You didn't buy any goods as far as paypal are concerned so you are goosed if you do need to open a dispute or what not.
 
Most of the time it's not about 4%. It's about a sellers protection from a fraudulent claims(seems there is a wave of those lately). Especially if it's a cross-border deal.
 
It's my understanding that any buyer that sends money as a "gift" has ZERO protection at that point if the seller decides to screw you. As far as Paypal is concerned since it was a "gift" then obviously no merchandise was exchanged.

Unless you are dealing with someone you know and that you have extreme trust in only a very naive person would take that gamble especailly in dealing with an unknown party. If that is the only option the seller will accept then I would definitely pass on that deal.
 
That's where iTrader comes in. You look at the feedback, check out the blades he/she purchased/sold/traded and decide either to trust him/her or not. Better deal not done, than somebody ripped-off
 
Have recently read of a bunch of people getting burned with whole "gift" thing and paypal.
You have no recourse if the deal goes sour, as some other posters in this thread pointed out.
 
It's certainly true that everyone has their own values (as the responses to this thread amply illustrate) but I'm going to put this another way, the seller is asking the buyer to lie so he can steal some money that the deal enabler (Paypal) is due, beyond question. Both people are participating in fraud and both people are being dishonest.

I am constantly amazed at how cheap some people will sell their honor......and that's all I'm going to say about this.
 
Gatogordo said:
It's certainly true that everyone has their own values (as the responses to this thread amply illustrate) but I'm going to put this another way, the seller is asking the buyer to lie so he can steal some money that the deal enabler (Paypal) is due, beyond question. Both people are participating in fraud and both people are being dishonest.

I am constantly amazed at how cheap some people will sell their honor......and that's all I'm going to say about this.
Click to expand...

I agree. You may not like PayPal or their rules, but they are a business, and you agree to pay them for their service when you use them. Don't wanna pay the fees? Don't use them.

If everyone went the "gift" route, PayPal would have to shut down. In turn, many internet businesses, including knife makers, would take a major hit and more than a few would go under themselves.
 
I think fees should be split two ways. That way the buyer gets the protection offered by PP, the seller enjoys the convenience and the sting of having to pay the fee is lessened for both parties. Seems like the fairest option to me.
 
I agree that the whole "gift" idea gives me a very bad feeling, and bottom line it does question ones integrity. For those whom may not care or feel that Paypal deserves Payback, remember that you may inadvertently bring the unwanted scrutiny of Paypal on to these forums. I can't imagine it will take long before some disgruntled customer complains to Paypal and mentions the "gift" process. We have all seen that Paypal already has qualms about knives, guns and related items, why on earth would we want them nosing around causing more grief than 4% is worth. I am not a great fan about the way Paypal conducts themselves with many of their customers, but I choose to use them as they still offer protection to both buyer and seller. In the end I look at it like asking a buyer asking a seller to alter a customs document so that someone can save a few bucks, it just not worth all the potential grief.
 
Haze said:
The personal payment option must be different in other countries, I still have to pay a fee even if I use the personal/gift option. The other problem using that method is you
have no comeback if something goes wrong. You didn't buy any goods as far as paypal are concerned so you are goosed if you do need to open a dispute or what not.
Click to expand...

It must be different for non CONUS users because, like you, my personal option here in SA requires me to pay the fees.

I only use this for long standing BF members who have a good rep and well known and respected internet sales sites. I have made many purchases this way and I have never had a problem.
I would rather pay the genuine Paypal fees as prescribed by Paypal than have to pay over inflated fees which some sellers seem to think is ok to charge.
 
What gets under my skin is the sellers that don't advertise paypal fees (for whatever reason), then you send them a PM or email expressing interest in their wares. They politely reply with their paypal email address and tell you to "use the gift tab" or "add 4%". Now keep in mind... THere was no mention of this on the sale thread. Now all of a sudden you're expected to just go along with this.

There's been a real rash of this lately. I don't use the gift tab and I want to know about having to add PayPal fees before I ever send my first email or PM. That's not too much to ask, IMO.
 
I have used PP. Both ways, if you send the money as a gift the sender pays the PP fee if you just send the money as a regular payment the receiver pays the fee. I think that it is important the both the buyer and seller agree on wh pays the fee, and which method is used on PP to pay. I always insist that the buyer pay fees. If I know the person I will agree to the gift option as you Are not protected by buyer protection. If I donot know the person I ask them to pay the fee included so I end upwith the asking price for the knife. Otherwise a PO money order is good. Its not IMHO a matter of integrity as much as communication. BTW I have done deals with the OP of this thread and he is a good guy!:thumbup:
 
I think that there is nothing wrong with the seller stating their own terms, and if you don't like it then don't buy it. Just like I won't buy your knife if you insist I post "i'll take it" it your thread, because I think it is juvenile and refuse to participate, unless of course you have a great price on a bad a$$ knife! :D
 
That 4% is an insurance payment. If the deal goes bad you get your money back from PayPal. If you choose to forego the insurance, you save some money and you're on your own. There is nothing immoral, illegal or otherwise wrong about using the personal option. PayPal has no problem with people doing this, so why should you?
 
PS It's not 4% anyway. It's 2.9% plus 35 cents or some such. Where do people get the 4% number from anyway?????
 
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