When does a knife become a sword?

[Barabus]

My feeling is that a sword is something that does not perform the typical duties of a knife well.

 

[Skimo]

Being a switchblade does not make a knife a weapon any more than stripes make a car a race car.

 

[marcinek]

My feeling is that a sword is something that does not perform the typical duties of a knife well.

Nope. Too many knives out there that do not perform the typical duties of a knife well.

 

[PaulTR]

I always thought about it this way: a sword is designed to kill things, a knife might be used to kill things. That's how I reconcile it in my mind, at least.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Yes, but what about artillery swords? Or sticking knives?

 

[Alvaro Candanedo]

This eventually returns to the old and often raised question of whether knives can be primarily weapons. If we buy into the idea that the intended use determines the correct term, then a knife could never be a weapon and if such an implement were indeed used as such then it would be properly referred to as a sword instead of a knife. In short a knife discussion would focuss on the tool use of the edged item, while a sword discussion would cover the martial aspects of the same edge tools.

n2s

I think that it's necessary to go back to the time in which a people or a culture became sophisticated enough or complex enough to support either profesional/standing armies and/or a warrior caste. Before that you only had groups or bands of men armed with whatever tool or weapon was available to attack (or defend from) neighboring groups. It was then that specific weapons as such were developed and regardles of size, they were that, weapons. You can include in this category weapons as the akinakes, the gladius, the falcata, etc., which on average were 18-20" long. So yes, the size is important, but also, the intended use. Just my 2 cents.

 

[PaulTR]

Yes, but what about artillery swords? Or sticking knives?

Well there goes my reconciled mind, I guess hehe. You do bring up a good point tho. I guess what makes a sword is the intent behind its use; things like ceremonial swords are "covered" because the history and lore surrounding them is steeped in warfare and combat. So, in a cheesy poetic sense, everyone who's ever gotten stabbed, slashed, shredded, or decapitated by an edged weapon got hurt or killed by a "sword".

Shabby theory? You bet! But it's the best I've got folks

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think that it's necessary to go back to the time in which a people or a culture became sophisticated enough or complex enough to support either profesional/standing armies and/or a warrior caste. Before that you only had groups or bands of men armed with whatever tool or weapon was available to attack (or defend from) neighboring groups. It was then that specific weapons as such were developed and regardles of size, they were that, weapons. You can include in this category weapons as the akinakes, the gladius, the falcata, etc., which on average were 18-20" long. So yes, the size is important, but also, the intended use. Just my 2 cents.

Spears were around as hunting weapons as well as weapons of conflict for a long time before the development of swords. We've had dedicated weapons since pretty much the very beginning of human history. Swords in specific, however, required the discovery of metal to be a viable weapon form due to their comparatively long blade.

 

[gadunz]

Shortest gladius- 18" blade. Smle bayonet- 17" blade

 

[flatblackcapo]

I will take "S"words for one hundred , Alex.

 

[Anarkistic]

If you look at swords used in history, in battle a sword generally has to be able to chop effectively. The shortest short swords used by Romans for example was approximately 18inches in total.

So I would go with 18 inches as the point when a knife becomes a sword.

 

[SCWillson]

Yet the Japanese tanto is traditionally classified as a sword, and in describing martial conflicts there are plenty of uses of the term "short sword" rather than "knife."

That is incorrect. A tanto has always been a knife. The two swords in a traditional Japanese daisho (Jap. "Big-little") set are the katana and the lesser-known and smaller wakazashi. Tantos traditionally had blades from 6 to 12 inches in length, which is a knife by any definition. They were sometimes carried instead of the wakazashi in a daisho set, and that may be where the confusion arose.

 

[Barabus]

Nope. Too many knives out there that do not perform the typical duties of a knife well.

What does this mean? Sounds like you did not think that one through.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

If you look at swords used in history, in battle a sword generally has to be able to chop effectively. The shortest short swords used by Romans for example was approximately 18inches in total.

So I would go with 18 inches as the point when a knife becomes a sword.

But this accurate replica of a Type B Mycenaean short sword has a blade of just over 15"

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

What does this mean? Sounds like you did not think that one through.

No--he thought it through. He means that the ability of the tool to perform a task (or more specifically, its inability) doesn't change the fact that it was designed for said purpose. There are tons of crappy knives out there, and they don't do their job well...but that doesn't make them swords.

 

[Alvaro Candanedo]

Spears were around as hunting weapons as well as weapons of conflict for a long time before the development of swords. We've had dedicated weapons since pretty much the very beginning of human history. Swords in specific, however, required the discovery of metal to be a viable weapon form due to their comparatively long blade.

You are right, and the same can be said about the bow and arrow. But the original question was "when a knife becomes a sword". And your point about the discovery or "invention" of metallurgy is the perfect example of what I said: the evolution of human society toward the division of labor and the production of a surplus of food that could support a group of individuals that could dedicate themselves to something other than yes, the production of food.

 

[SCWillson]

If you look at swords used in history, in battle a sword generally has to be able to chop effectively. The shortest short swords used by Romans for example was approximately 18inches in total.

So I would go with 18 inches as the point when a knife becomes a sword.

I think you're on to something here. I think it becomes a sword when the blade itself has enough mass and/or contoured to chop human flesh effectively, so a shorter blade than 18" which is heavy or has its mass weighted forward (such as a kukri) is in effect a sword. There is probably no hard number for length to be considered a sword.

Or perhaps a sword is any bladed weapon which uses a scabbard instead of a sheath.

 

[Barabus]

No--he thought it through. He means that the ability of the tool to perform a task (or more specifically, its inability) doesn't change the fact that it was designed for said purpose. There are tons of crappy knives out there, and they don't do their job well...but that doesn't make them swords.

What are you- his boyfriend? Let him speak for himself. In any event, nobody is confusing a crappy knife with a sword. Instead the OP wanted to ask about the line between a knife and sword. It cannot be length b/c some long blades are knife like and some shorter blades are more sword like. Heft, geometry and other physical attributes all combine to make a sword ill suited for traditional knife duties.

 

[SCWillson]

Spears were around as hunting weapons as well as weapons of conflict for a long time before the development of swords. We've had dedicated weapons since pretty much the very beginning of human history. Swords in specific, however, required the discovery of metal to be a viable weapon form due to their comparatively long blade.

Metal is not necessary. The archaeology museum where I work weekends as security has a very nice Aztec sword made of wood with obsidian bladelets fastened along both edges with adhesives. An professional archaeologist who was visiting a few weeks ago said he saw a demonstration where a similar sword was used to kill and then decapitate a full-grown bull (this took place in central Mexico). The blade on the one in the museum is about 20" long.

 

[Thomas Linton]

There have been swords that were primarily for sticking. See "Rapier."

And here's a "point." Personal attacks get threads closed and members pitched.