When does a knife become a sword?

Personally, I think there are many factors that go into determining the difference. Blade thickness and width, hilt or jimping, length of handle, blade shape, etc. Length is not always a determining factor, as there are long knives and short swords. I agree that the intent (and inherent design) is a big factor discerning between the two. A long knife can be used for many purposes like hunting, skinning, cutting branches, rope, etc. Its a tool. A sword is a weapon. Its sole purpose is to pierce/cut people.
 
K.O.D. said:
Personally, I think there are many factors that go into determining the difference. Blade thickness and width, hilt or jimping, length of handle, blade shape, etc. Length is not always a determining factor, as there are long knives and short swords. I agree that the intent (and inherent design) is a big factor discerning between the two. A long knife can be used for many purposes like hunting, skinning, cutting branches, rope, etc. Its a tool. A sword is a weapon. Its sole purpose is to pierce/cut people.
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Agreed. Swords are weapons, knives can be weapons. Machetes are big knives and can be found in most sporting goods stores and even Home Depot, but they are often (mis)used as weapons.
 
When it's not suited to slice my tomatoes for dinner...
A machete still does it (if it's about halving chicken for the grill, wow!..). But the same length with a guard is a no go. So, if it's too long and has a guard : it's a sword.
On a serious note : an everyday use knife will be best with a blade about the length of your palm. More reach and heft gives you more power, vegetables don't usually call for this more power/heft. But it's up to you to define your use. Now, if you step up to help at my barbecue with a Claymore Sword : I may tell you that the sausages have already been killed long ago...
 
I believe it deals with how the blade is designed. Knives should be properly balanced for their intended use of course, but a sword has to be both dynamicaly and harmonically balanced. So I'd say it becomes a sword when it's balanced as one.
 
Fencing as a sport - a somewhat rough sport at first - has been around for centuries. Weapons were designed for that sport. The objective was to "win," not necessarily to injure badly. Strangely, from your POV, the makers and users thought they were 'swords." But, hey; what did they know?
 
Thomas Linton said:
Fencing as a sport - a somewhat rough sport at first - has been around for centuries. Weapons were designed for that sport. The objective was to "win," not necessarily to injure badly. Strangely, from your POV, the makers and users thought they were 'swords." But, hey; what did they know?
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There are lots of rough sports (look at the origins of soccer for example). I've had friends who fenced. Fencing swords are sporting goods, not weapons. The fact the participants and suppliers of those goods acted like they were real swords doesn't make those items swords.
 
SCWillson said:
There are lots of rough sports (look at the origins of soccer for example). I've had friends who fenced. Fencing swords are sporting goods, not weapons. The fact the participants and suppliers of those goods acted like they were real swords doesn't make those items swords.
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If you're saying that fencing swords aren't real "swords" because your definition of "swords" only admits items that are intended and function as weapons, then I think you're way off base.

Fencing swords -- epee, foil and sabre -- may be modified to prevent harm to the participants, but they sure have all the characteristics of swords aside from those modifications. Ceremonial and replica swords may likewise not have razor-sharp edges or the pointiest points. But they certainly qualify as swords. Unless you think they exist only in a limbo-like quasi-sword state until sharpened and then become swords? If so, how sharp? To paraphrase the original question, when does a quasi-sword become dangerous enough to be a sword?
 
Gadfly22 said:
If you're saying that fencing swords aren't real "swords" because your definition of "swords" only admits items that are intended and function as weapons, then I think you're way off base.

Fencing swords -- epee, foil and sabre -- may be modified to prevent harm to the participants, but they sure have all the characteristics of swords aside from those modifications. Ceremonial and replica swords may likewise not have razor-sharp edges or the pointiest points. But they certainly qualify as swords. Unless you think they exist only in a limbo-like quasi-sword state until sharpened and then become swords? If so, how sharp? To paraphrase the original question, when does a quasi-sword become dangerous enough to be a sword?
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And in the beginning, they were not modified much - or at all. There were broken bones and fatalities - ancillary to the "sport."
 
Gadfly22 said:
If you're saying that fencing swords aren't real "swords" because your definition of "swords" only admits items that are intended and function as weapons, then I think you're way off base.

Fencing swords -- epee, foil and sabre -- may be modified to prevent harm to the participants, but they sure have all the characteristics of swords aside from those modifications. Ceremonial and replica swords may likewise not have razor-sharp edges or the pointiest points. But they certainly qualify as swords. Unless you think they exist only in a limbo-like quasi-sword state until sharpened and then become swords? If so, how sharp? To paraphrase the original question, when does a quasi-sword become dangerous enough to be a sword?
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A sword is an edged weapon designed to kill or maim. If it cannot kill or maim then it is not a sword. If it is sharpened enough to kill or maim then it becomes a sword just as a baseball bat applied to someone's skull becomes a club. There is no "quasi-sword." It's a sword or it isn't.
 
I would call fencing weapons swords ONLY in the same way that purely ceremonial ones are. They aren't combat swords, but they're sort of grandfathered in because of their lineage.

I wonder how far down the leeway can be carried. Children's plastic swords? Swizzle swords? :D
 
Thomas Linton said:
And in the beginning, they were not modified much - or at all. There were broken bones and fatalities - ancillary to the "sport."
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That is a pointless argument. There are broken bones and fatalities in football too, but I wouldn't consider that a battle.
 
Ooooooh the foam nerf swords. Those are designed to kill for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
SCWillson said:
A sword is an edged weapon designed to kill or maim. If it cannot kill or maim then it is not a sword. If it is sharpened enough to kill or maim then it becomes a sword just as a baseball bat applied to someone's skull becomes a club. There is no "quasi-sword." It's a sword or it isn't.
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I'm afraid that you've fallen too in love with your own definition. Betcha if you were hit over the head or sliced across the neck with a fencing sabre, you'd be maimed enough to claim you had been attacked with a for-real "sword". At least that's what your lawyer (or executor) would claim.

This discussion is the same as trying to set a fixed difference between a "car" and a "truck". Cars can be truck-like and trucks can be car-like. You'll never set a definition that can't be challenged by someone producing some kind of hybrid that has characteristics of both. Same with "knives" and "swords".
 
SCWillson said:
A sword is an edged weapon designed to kill or maim. If it cannot kill or maim then it is not a sword. If it is sharpened enough to kill or maim then it becomes a sword just as a baseball bat applied to someone's skull becomes a club. There is no "quasi-sword." It's a sword or it isn't.
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I disagree for a number of reasons, but here's an easy example of a "quasi-sword". A Collins "cutacha" machete/sword hybrid.

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FortyTwoBlades said:
I would call fencing weapons swords ONLY in the same way that purely ceremonial ones are. They aren't combat swords, but they're sort of grandfathered in because of their lineage.

I wonder how far down the leeway can be carried. Children's plastic swords? Swizzle swords? :D
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My GI Joe when I was a kid had an M1 Garand. I suppose that might qualify as a gun to some. :)

And I think your point on fencing and ceremonial swords being "grandfathered" in as real swords is well made. I own a couple "real" swords and a couple "pseudo swords" that are not much more dangerous than a pointy stick. Even sharpened I wouldn't use those in a real fight.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I disagree for a number of reasons, but here's an easy example of a "quasi-sword". A Collins "cutacha" machete/sword hybrid.

6768650_3m.jpg
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Why is it not a sword? It certainly looks far more like a sword than a machete, and it will certainly not perform the intended purpose of a machete as well as a real one would. Is it completely unsharpened? :confused:

Are we really going to get into nit-picky exceptions here? We are discussing a broader philosophical question here and you want to illustrate where white becomes gray?
 
On my left, I have a ceremonial sword. It was designed as a replica of a classic cavalry sword, but is intentionally dull and not pointy. On my right, I have a real cavalry sword -- the exact kind that the ceremonial one is a replica of. But alas it is now -- from use and lack of care -- exactly as dull and unpointy as the ceremonial one. In short, they are in appearance identical, though one was designed for show (though could be made sharp and pointy if desired) and the other was designed for combat (though no longer in shape for actual warfare).

Is one a sword and not the other? Did the cavalry sword cease to be a sword when it got too dull to slice? Could the replica become a sword if I sharpen it? Maybe just the tip, so I could stab but not slice? Is it a sword then?

You see the difficulty of trying to employ a "use" or "design" argument to settle this issue, no?
 
And one other fillip:

Assume I have sharpened my replica sword to razor sharpness but left my real sword dull. Remember that they look identical. Could you tell which was a sword by looking at it? Would you have to test the blade to see if it could "kill or maim"? In short, with a design or use criterion, can you even tell what a sword looks like without subjecting it to some testing or historical research?
 
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