when is an offer an insult?

Extreme lowball offers are insulting but check out ebay from time to time for Hartsfield knives.They go for 1000`s of $$.I have a little experience making knives.I have only the most primitive tools like a vise,files,sandpaper,handdrill and a dremel.I can make Hartsfield knives with them,they are the most primitive chunks of A2 steel.The very first knife I made was an Americanized tanto,chisel-ground from 5/32" A2.

I love the language the sellers of Hartsfield knives use:"A Hartsfield blade feels alive in your hand".Buddy,if a knife feels alive in your hand,carefully put it down and ask your loved ones to drive you to the nearest ER.

Compare this to John Greco and Ted Frizzell who can put a superb knife in your hand for 50-100$,not to mention all the great guys on the knifemaking section of BF.

Knife world suffers from too many insanely overpriced knives and to me this is more insulting than the occasional lowball offers I get.
 
The price asked is the price asked as far as that goes. Unless it is a one off or incredibly rare piece, wait for the next one to come up and maybe get it cheaper.

I wouldn't think it would be out of line to inquire if the sellers price is firm, if a discount can be had for MO over PP, or if a face to face could be arranged and no shipping applies.

Alot of low balling IMO is done with an eye towards reselling.

Chuck
 
I'm pretty hard to insult. Guess I don't have much class. I take everyone's offer at face value and treat it as serious. If I can't accept their offer, I explain why and thank them for their interest.

I figure if their experience with me is pleasant, they might be the one to pay the askin' price on my next knife for sale.
 
If the potential buyer is polite and it appears clear he is truly not attempting to low-ball you then a polite "no thanks" is appropriate.

BUT, I just got to believe that the potential buyer, in most cases, know damn well that they are low-balling you when they see a knife up for sale at $400 and they offer $100. 50% or more off the asking price is silly, and almost all of us know that.

BUT, there are those few who have no clue.......................
 
No one can insult you – you choose to be insulted or not by the attempt.

No one can make you angry – you choose to be angry or not.

You choose your behavior, nobody has that power over you, but we often talk like they do, like it's out of our control. It's not.

A low ball offer is just an attempt to get the "easy" money. You can't change the buyer's behavior by fighting with them so the best thing is to simply reject their offer. Tell them why you rejected it if you choose.
 
I've found an excellent way of not receiving "low ball" offers. . . . . . .I don't sell any of my knives. :p :D
 
I get lowball offers every time I post something and don't spell out "no trades". It's part of the cost of doing business here on BFC. I don't find the lowball offers themselves offensive, but I do find it irritating when senders of said offers get all butthurt and start publicly whining about you if you don't immediately write them back with a beautifully worded response.

And there is one particular individual- a well known PT whom I have received several ridiculous trade offers from in the past. An individual whom I KNOW has multiple examples of the knives on my trade list, but insists on negotiating with the least interesting and desirable knives in his collection- never even approaching the semblance of a fair trade. I find that disrepectful, and rude. Not only refusing to acknowledge that I know what my knives are worth, and what his knives are worth, but pressing the issue- repeatedly. Trying repeatedly to weasel his way into a lopsided trade deal that benefits him. Ugh.
 
bruce said:
No one can insult you – you choose to be insulted or not by the attempt.

No one can make you angry – you choose to be angry or not.

You choose your behavior, nobody has that power over you, but we often talk like they do, like it's out of our control. It's not.

A low ball offer is just an attempt to get the "easy" money. You can't change the buyer's behavior by fighting with them so the best thing is to simply reject their offer. Tell them why you rejected it if you choose.
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you can chose your reaction, not your emotion.
 
As I live in Canada I almost always have to try and negotiate with people. In fact I do enjoy the negotiation process, which is why I started a thread as a trade first rather than a for sale thread. This way both parties can determine the value of what they have.

There are a lot of good opinions in this thread but something IMO has not been brought up. This is an international website with worldwide distribution so each individual will have a different experience with bartering, as some cultures accept that asking price is overly high so that a more fair price can be worked out. Remember that Western society has nearly made barter obsolete but it thrives still worldwide. maybe the person you dismiss is actually interested in a more fair price and is waiting for a couple of rounds of bartering.

P.S. Fishface-I hope it is not me!
 
I hope I do not come off as one of these lowballers. I sometimes ask a lower price but only after looking around at prices to be found .I have never been told I was rude but if I have been rude I would like to be told so .I don`t understand the mentality that if someone does something you don`t like you should just take it and later be mad in private .If you are rude to me I will tell you unless I feel it was my fault ,in that case I got what was coming to me. I do find it strange that you see so many knives listed at what the knife cost the person even if it was used and shows signs of use ,some people will list a knife for three dollars less than what you can buy it for right now on a trusted e-retailer .I hope we can all learn not to be insulted and when we encounter noobs and sometimes ignorance as we all can be ignorant and we all have been(and some of us still are) noobs .
 
After having posted that I never get insulted by an offer I remembered one transaction where the buyer cheesed me off a little bit. He posted an "I'll take it" in the thread, then after I contacted him via email to arrange the transaction then he started trying to bargain on the price and split the PayPal fees.

I must admit that I got a little perturbed by that. Not insulted, but certainly a little annoyed. The time to negotiate is before you post an acceptance in the thread.
 
Lowballs make me mad when done face to face.This makes the seller feel that he is perceived to be weak/poor/desperate to get a little$$ in his hand to feed an addiction or just buy a little food etc.When I get a lowball offer thru email I`m not offended because it`s not personal.

When I get a real lowball offer I always counter with an ironic offer to buy a huge number of the same items at the offered price.
 
anythingsharp said:
Extreme lowball offers are insulting but check out ebay from time to time for Hartsfield knives.They go for 1000`s of $$.I have a little experience making knives.I have only the most primitive tools like a vise,files,sandpaper,handdrill and a dremel.I can make Hartsfield knives with them,they are the most primitive chunks of A2 steel.The very first knife I made was an Americanized tanto,chisel-ground from 5/32" A2.

I love the language the sellers of Hartsfield knives use:"A Hartsfield blade feels alive in your hand".Buddy,if a knife feels alive in your hand,carefully put it down and ask your loved ones to drive you to the nearest ER.

Compare this to John Greco and Ted Frizzell who can put a superb knife in your hand for 50-100$,not to mention all the great guys on the knifemaking section of BF.

Knife world suffers from too many insanely overpriced knives and to me this is more insulting than the occasional lowball offers I get.
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So very true!
 
MORIMOTOM said:
valid points, however the offers can be taken a little far.

there is one member in particular, who wanted to argue when i politely turned down his lowball offer.

i actually countered with an in between offer, and he suggested i was quibbling over just a few dollars. i reminded him that his original offer was about 30% off my listed price, which was already under retail for a fairly sought after model.

i have had similar experiences in other sales threads with the same member, who pretty much only posts in the exchange. dealer? i dont know, but he took the lowball to an extreme and i was insulted. im not a businessman, just a guy who sometimes sells off a few knives.
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I was going to say, I only find it rude when people want to argue with me when I don't accept their offer, or when they try to belittle my knife in preparation for making a lowball offer. You know the type -- "That knife looks pretty beat up, how about if I give you XXX for it."

Otherwise, they can offer what they want as long as they are polite. I don't find it insulting.
 
elkins45 said:
After having posted that I never get insulted by an offer I remembered one transaction where the buyer cheesed me off a little bit. He posted an "I'll take it" in the thread, then after I contacted him via email to arrange the transaction then he started trying to bargain on the price and split the PayPal fees.

I must admit that I got a little perturbed by that. Not insulted, but certainly a little annoyed. The time to negotiate is before you post an acceptance in the thread.
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Oh man I hate that too.
 
GenericJohn said:
Frankly, Busse (and Case) owners are probably most vulnerable to unpredictable market values. The brand is more about collector models and controlled availability than true market demand. We can't know the true market demand because the models change constantly. Plus, the photos of massive collections shows that the supply is held by a limited number of collectors. If a few of them move to other hobbies or have financial problems then the whole market would suffer. A user or non collector isn't going to have memories of one time high values--they just want a certain look, size, and functionality.
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With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't know Case, but I do know Busse, and you are way off base. There are a few people with large sets of knives, but it does not represent a significant percentage of knives produced. And the secondary market inflated values only matter to those who are dealers or wannabe dealers. A deflated market is a boon for buyers, and the knives are generally always worth original retail price.

As to the thread topic, I don't freak out if someone lowballs me, I just decline the offer.
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
With all due respect, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't know Case, but I do know Busse, and you are way off base. There are a few people with large sets of knives, but it does not represent a significant percentage of knives produced. And the secondary market inflated values only matter to those who are dealers or wannabe dealers. A deflated market is a boon for buyers, and the knives are generally always worth original retail price.
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Hey, I don't know how I can be off base because I agree with basically most of what you say! I'm not aware of any public figures on Busse production numbers, however, so I can't comment about the collectors being insignificant. The hardcore collectors and wannabe dealers clearly do illustrate the psychology of falsely limited demand.

In *any* field the use of limited editions and frequent model changes is primarily about driving sales and keeping up values, but precisely NOT about meeting demand. Ferrari is famous for figuring out the market demand (e.g. 250 cars) for a particular model then making 1 less (e.g. 249). In the 1990s there was a collector bubble in Beanie Babies (stuffed animals) because of the same principle. The laws restricting building in California are largely responsible for several local real estate bubbles over the last 50 years--only to be followed by a much broader one in recent years.

Ferrari has been consistently successful at keeping supply down and prices up, however, for all but the rarest models the values still fall over time. For example, you can now get a garden variety "Magnum P.I." 308 for under $30,000. Just the normal depreciating value pattern for manufactured goods with no inherent scarcity.

Case has constantly introduced limited editions to drive demand, and this marketing model is clearly followed by Spyderco (e.g. sprint runs, the Kopa) Benchmade Gold series, Busse, etc., etc., etc. The percentage of the market willing to pay $100+ for a knife is quite limited, let alone those who can afford a $300-$500 knife. When a few people are out of work for a couple years the $500 knives, the restored muscle cars, the one-of-a-kind paintings, and the custom choppers will go out the door to feed the kids. Happens in every recession. The value of a given item may come back when the economy improves, or not. By that time something new may have come along that's better, or the collectors have died off.
 
there is no falsely limited demand. No such thing, actually. . . I think what you are driving at is "Falsely limited supply" and there is no such factor at work with Busse. There are more knives available now than ever before, production continues to increase. Of course you would know this if you had been around for a little while and paid attention. In just the short time since I bought my first Busse (2005), production and demand have both been through the roof, but the only limitation I have seen is on the knowledge base of people claiming exactly what you have. I guess there is no limitation on the imagination.

In other words, more knives, more models, faster production, and new companies also pouring out new stuff does not equal "falsely limited supply".
 
Don`t get me started on Busse.What can be said about an offer to exchange a piece of unknown steel for a large number of known banknotes?What about a certain company that offers very expensive survival knives made of stainless steel?
 
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