When is everyone okay with copying designs?

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I'm personally ok with them since I don't have $500+ to spend on a custom knife but I'd still like to see how they feel in hand. It's just opinion.

Like my opinion that some of the people who are dead set against it and shame people who buy them seem elitist and obnoxious
 
Some people just react on an emotional level without any sort of critical thinking. You are not going to change their minds and you are not going to get a satisfactory answer regarding 'why' from them.
 
Porschephile said:
There's a cheapo Ganzo that is literally a carbon copy (low carbon, obviously!) of that orange-scaled LionSteel.

The Chinese government has an 'interesting' policy on protecting Chinese products from copyright law even if they're a direct copy - anyone remember the fake BMW X5s that the government said were nothing like the original at all?
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Are you talking about this one piece aluminum frame lock and this lined G10 Axis lock?
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They are clearly the same size and shape, but different in every other way. (The Axis lock is obviously an infringement.) Why do you call it a carbon copy?
 
I have a feeling that it's OK for alot of people as long as it's not their intellectual property being stolen, eroding their livelihood.
 
I've seen a liner lock version of that same Ganzo, with even a non-functional roto-lock, with my own eyes.
Are you saying it's not a clear rip-off?

We discussed this extensively over on British Blades (link below, if allowed). I still think it's a blatant copy.
That said, I have several GECs and also some Rough Rider traditionals which cost pennies (obviously these are tried and tested patterns made by many so no copying issue) - the RRs are 90% of the quality at maybe 7% of the price. 440A is not ideal but hey, 1095 is not an expensive or exotic steel.
 
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bhyde said:
I have a feeling that it's OK for alot of people as long as it's not their intellectual property being stolen, eroding their livelihood.
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This is a good point, though. Clearly Buck lost 110 sales to Schrade's LB7. Is Randall losing sales to Wall? Is Chris Reeve losing sales to Sanrenmu?
 
It has been said that immitatation is the highest form of flattery, contrfiting is a crime. A copyright, trademark, or thieft of intellectual property is also a no no. But if you have the funds of Disney, the NFL or people with really deep pockets, you can cut down the counterfit sales, or thieft of intellectual property.

Wass at a gun show today, there were total counterfit Spyderco's & Microtect knives for sale. No one cared, and some buyers were buying.
 
Porschephile said:
I've seen a liner lock version of that same Ganzo, with even a non-functional roto-lock with my own eyes.
Are you saying it's not a clear rip-off?
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I'm asking. This is the only Ganzo I've seen that looks like a Lionsteel. The Lionsteel is one of their one-piece spine knives. The Ganzo's mechanism and construction is completely different. I'm asking you if these are the two you are talking about, and whether you call them "carbon copies" despite the very obvious differences.

If there is a spine-type frame lock Ganzo out there, could you post a pic, please?
 
I'm not too concerned with "homages", similarities, and knives that "borrow" design elements unless one party suffers a pecuniary loss. But a fake Para 2 on eBay that takes money out of Mr. Sal's pocket is a different story.
 
RX-79G said:
I'm asking. This is the only Ganzo I've seen that looks like a Lionsteel. The Lionsteel is one of their one-piece spine knives. The Ganzo's mechanism and construction is completely different. I'm asking you if these are the two you are talking about, and whether you call them "carbon copies" despite the very obvious differences.

If there is a spine-type frame lock Ganzo out there, could you post a pic, please?
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Sorry buddy I was updating my post above when you posted.

The point is, they are using someone else's overall design to sell more knives.
LS are not going to lose any sales because of the price differential so really this is a victimless 'crime', but if I had designed something innovative and of which I was proud, it would be hugely infuriating to have that design copied!
 
powernoodle said:
I'm not too concerned with "homages", similarities, and knives that "borrow" design elements unless one party suffers a pecuniary loss. But a fake Para 2 on eBay that takes money out of Mr. Sal's pocket is a different story.
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And I don't think anyone would disagree with you. Or about that "Idaho Made" fake Sebenza Jill posted.

The word for those is "counterfeit".
 
Porschephile said:
Sorry buddy I was updating my post above when you posted.

The point is, they are using someone else's overall design to sell more knives.
LS are not going to lose any sales because of the price differential so really this is a victimless 'crime', but if I had designed something innovative and of which I was proud, it would be hugely infuriating to have that design copied!
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I personally think the design of the Lionsteel handle is innovative. I don't know if the simple shape of the knife (or possibly any knife) is so radically different to qualify as "innovative". But I posted this to learn, not convince.
 
nick21 said:
I'm personally ok with them since I don't have $500+ to spend on a custom knife but I'd still like to see how they feel in hand. It's just opinion.

Like my opinion that some of the people who are dead set against it and shame people who buy them seem elitist and obnoxious
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To be clear I have no problem with Sanrenmu, Ganzo, Enlan, and the like. However knives that are complete fabrications, complete with using the manufacturers name, I have a problem with.

If Sanrenmu started marketing the 710s as Chris Reeves knives then I'd have a problem with them.
 
RX-79G said:
This is a good point, though. Clearly Buck lost 110 sales to Schrade's LB7. Is Randall losing sales to Wall? Is Chris Reeve losing sales to Sanrenmu?
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Sure they are, but the number of lost sales would be what is debatable. Some people buy these because they cannot afford the original..I don't see the people buying them because they can't afford them as being the biggest issue..Maybe it's a gateway to buy the real thing.
 
bhyde said:
Sure they are, but the number of lost sales would be what is debatable. Some people buy these because they cannot afford the original..I don't see the people buying them because they can't afford them as being the biggest issue..Maybe it's a gateway to buy the real thing.
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I think Randall is losing sales to Wall.

I think $7 Sanrenmu's can only stimulate CRK sales.

Complete opposites in their effect because they are so different in how close a copy they are.
 
I'm OK with copied designs when they are knives I grew up with.

Or when copies are not from China.

Those seem to be the criteria most folks around here seem to follow. Few people care care about that LB7 they wanted back in the 70s, or that Barlow that grandpa carried.

But a knife that looks like a Sebenza.... STEALINGFOODFROMCHRISREEVE'SBABIES!!! A knife from China... COMMUNISS!!!

Forget that competition is the basis of capitalist society. My favorite knife company must be protected from copies and competition even if the design being copied isn't legally protectable. And don't get all wishy washy about copies versus counterfeits. Thems all the same according to my high horse...
*goes away all pouty and hurt because life is so tough for us poor knife enthusiasts*
 
RX-79G said:
I think Randall is losing sales to Wall.

I think $7 Sanrenmu's can only stimulate CRK sales.

Complete opposites in their effect because they are so different in how close a copy they are.
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I'm clearly not making a distinction on WHO copies what..A copy is just a lack of individual imagination and investment regardless of geography.

Either way, this is a tiring road that seems to come up occasionally. It's not something I have cared in the past to comment on as it's always subjective to individual interpretation and changing the opinions of others is often a fool's folly.
 
There will never be a time when everyone is okay with copying designs. I have heartburn with the whole thing if the clone is marketed and sold as the real deal.

I would however consider purchase of a fake to get a feel of blade and grip ergonomics before forking out 500 clams for the real thing.

BTW, I happen to like the idea of a Lion Steel with an Axis lock.
 
I personally am biased against China because they are a communist country. Have you ever heard of Tiananmen square, China's discrimination against female children (government sponsored abortion), internet censorship, sweatshops, slave labor camps, etc... I could type for hours.
 
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