When will folks let it go - Microtech

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LX_Emergency said:
How about a Ganzo clone of a Microtech? I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they rustle one up....
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Ganzo supposedly has made mt clones for private labels.



Area FiftyOne said:
A number of years ago I bought a MT SF-M knife. It is an OK knife but I have Gonzos, Enlons, and Kershaws that are better finished and fitted than the MT. At that point I decided to never buy a MT again. The MT is not carried by me. It sits in a box as a reminder that there are better knives out there.
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I had a doc killswitch. It actually had a cerakote type finish on the handle and blade. Gotta love drip marks around the pivot.
 
Knifemaker's copy each other's work all the time . Bob Loveless encouraged guys to make his classic knives . Knifemaker's tend not to trademark designs and more often share design features with other makers . When I buy a knife I consider materials used and looks . But I also gravitate towards smaller family owned companies . I feel they have more passion in their products. Now KAI is a huge company , Not even a American company .. I also take that in to consideration. Some people bash guys when they dont know anything about them but hearsay . I have met Tony and he seemed pretty decent to me in real life , His family stepped up in a big way and donated a sizable amount of money to help my Granddaughter last year during her battle with leukemia so .. the guy has a heart and they are not as evil as you may believe . He a business man and sometimes business gets messy . This really has nothing to do with the Matrix mess but it is relevant to his generosity to the knife community. Maybe separate the businesses man from the man.
 
Marko3 said:
Knifemaker's copy each other's work all the time . Bob Loveless encouraged guys to make his classic knives . Knifemaker's tend not to trademark designs and more often share design features with other makers . When I buy a knife I consider materials used and looks . But I also gravitate towards smaller family owned companies . I feel they have more passion in their products. Now KAI is a huge company , Not even a American company .. I also take that in to consideration. Some people bash guys when they dont know anything about them but hearsay . I have met Tony and he seemed pretty decent to me in real life , His family stepped up in a big way and donated a sizable amount of money to help my Granddaughter last year during her battle with leukemia so .. the guy has a heart and they are not as evil as you may believe . He a business man and sometimes business gets messy . This really has nothing to do with the Matrix mess but it is relevant to his generosity to the knife community. Maybe separate the businesses man from the man.
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Kershaw and ZT are US-based companies currently owned by KAI USA ltd., while part of the overlord KAI Group, KAI USA is based in Tualatin, OR, USA where Kershaw and ZT were started. Saying Kershaw/ZT isn't an American company is stretching it pretty far, considering they were formed and have always been in business in the same part of Oregon, arguably part of the USA.

As for 'separating the business man from the man' I have to disagree, all knife-makers have at one point been nice to a fan at some time, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore their business practices because of it. Many knife-making companies are dragged down by the shenanigans of their owners or designers, it's part of being a figurehead of a company and attaching your name to your product: you will forever be linked to your company and anything you do with your company reflects on your own life, just like what you do in your regular life reflects on your company.
 
Goose 7279 said:
So has this whole ordeal changed your view of microtech or kai. Would you still support microtech and buy their models. Just wondering i feel like the skin in this game is your hard earned money so i was just wondering, what would you do? I mean do you support strider after all of his debacles i kinda feel that MR. Marifone and Strider both acted really unproffesional and enethical and kinda group them together but thats me. Where do you stand in this. Does it not affect your view at all?
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I have not bought a knife in a while, but I own knives from Strider, KAI, CRK, Hinderer, Emerson, Cold Steel, Microtech, ProTech, Spyderco, Benchmade, Becker, Bussekin, Victorinox, GEC, Case, Buck and about a dozen other companies and a few full customs. Does that make me a bad person? No, it makes me an accumulator/collector/hobbyist/afi, whatever.

Without going into details, your question is like asking someone which political party they belong to or what religion they are, that way everyone can take kindly to you or prepare the pitchforks and torches. It's not that cut and dried for everyone and there are no points involved for taking one side or the other, this is not the first company vs company lawsuit to happen. This is not the first time a manufacturer went after someone.

Back to your question, where do I stand on ALL this? It doesn't matter where I stand on this, it's no ones business but my own in the end. What people spend their hard earned money on isn't my business, and yes I vote with my money. I really dislike the politics of this hobby, it takes the fun out of it entirely and breeds a lot of anger in what should otherwise be a fun and enjoyable activity. What would I do? I would not let it worry me as I have NO control at all over what these companies do, they want to make money not friends. I think they don't care about our opinion on their legal proceedings, that is best left to the attorneys.

I will not deny that there are some very unscrupulous individuals and companies running around out there (Hall of Shame in the Exchange as an example). Like I said, if you dig deep enough, you can find dirt on almost any company. It's up to each person how they feel about this, but it's getting old repeating the same thing over and over again. Like rowing a boat upstream after you've already gone over the water fall.
 
Final Option said:
This conversation will never end for the fanboys on either side. The knife has been around for ever, you can only change the design so much and it starts looking like someone else's design.
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There's a difference between taking cues from someone's knife design and what Microtech did with the Matrix. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
 
KingMC said:
Kershaw and ZT are US-based companies currently owned by KAI USA ltd., while part of the overlord KAI Group, KAI USA is based in Tualatin, OR, USA where Kershaw and ZT were started. Saying Kershaw/ZT isn't an American company is stretching it pretty far, considering they were formed and have always been in business in the same part of Oregon, arguably part of the USA.

As for 'separating the business man from the man' I have to disagree, all knife-makers have at one point been nice to a fan at some time, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore their business practices because of it. Many knife-making companies are dragged down by the shenanigans of their owners or designers, it's part of being a figurehead of a company and attaching your name to your product: you will forever be linked to your company and anything you do with your company reflects on your own life, just like what you do in your regular life reflects on your company.
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Good points .. At the end of the day I dont put much stock in what other businesses are doing . I have a lot to keep me busy . Just wanted to share the human side of the man that we know .
 
For the sake of accuracy, I should point out that I do not believe that RYP makes any knives. He has them made.
K.O.D. said:
It's all about who is the most sensitive and butthurt. There are fans of both companies, who seem to want to defend their company to death.

Say what you will about Mick Strider and RYP, but they both make damn good knives that are unique. This can't be said about Marfione and Microtech.

There are classic knives of which many companies make their own interpretation, such as the Bowie or certain slipjoint designs. It is another thing entirely to copy a new design. Jim Bowie is long since dead, and there was never a specific company that produced them, nor was there ant intellectual property.

When a company and knife designer labor to create a unique design, they can't help but be upset when another well established company blatantly copies, and charges a large premium for it.

I'm actually surprised more action hasn't been taken about this issue with MT.

If it was a situation where the collaborating designer jumped ship, I could see a similar design being released.
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Im sorry you feel that way. By no means was i trying to a paint you into a corner and take the enjoyment out of it for you/ anger you. I guess a PM would have been more appropriate. I just seen you had posted in here and assumed, you didnt mind discussing it openly. I sincerely apoligize Rev.


There is, in fact, another reason i asked you the question entirely. The reason being some of us hold , or at some point, held you in a high regard. So if someone i respect says something it carries alot of weight for me.


As for the companys making money not friends, they're still companys out there that do not believe that way. For me the one that comes to mind is Carothers they have been better to me than some family has been. As i said not trying to upset anyone i just wanted to understand the where and why's of it all all. Also if it is indeed going in circles it may be time to shut it down. I will not be posting again after this but will read the latest updates. Thanks for your time.


RevDevil said:
I have not bought a knife in a while, but I own knives from Strider, KAI, CRK, Hinderer, Emerson, Cold Steel, Microtech, ProTech, Spyderco, Benchmade, Becker, Bussekin, Victorinox, GEC, Case, Buck and about a dozen other companies and a few full customs. Does that make me a bad person? No, it makes me an accumulator/collector/hobbyist/afi, whatever.

Without going into details, your question is like asking someone which political party they belong to or what religion they are, that way everyone can take kindly to you or prepare the pitchforks and torches. It's not that cut and dried for everyone and there are no points involved for taking one side or the other, this is not the first company vs company lawsuit to happen. This is not the first time a manufacturer went after someone.

Back to your question, where do I stand on ALL this? It doesn't matter where I stand on this, it's no ones business but my own in the end. What people spend their hard earned money on isn't my business, and yes I vote with my money. I really dislike the politics of this hobby, it takes the fun out of it entirely and breeds a lot of anger in what should otherwise be a fun and enjoyable activity. What would I do? I would not let it worry me as I have NO control at all over what these companies do, they want to make money not friends. I think they don't care about our opinion on their legal proceedings, that is best left to the attorneys.

I will not deny that there are some very unscrupulous individuals and companies running around out there (Hall of Shame in the Exchange as an example). Like I said, if you dig deep enough, you can find dirt on almost any company. It's up to each person how they feel about this, but it's getting old repeating the same thing over and over again. Like rowing a boat upstream after you've already gone over the water fall.
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Marko3 said:
His family stepped up in a big way and donated a sizable amount of money to help my Granddaughter last year during her battle with leukemia so ..
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Mark:
It's been awhile since we've last communicated. I just wanted you to know, that you're entire family (especially your Granddaughter), have been/are still, in my prayers.
 
tokerblue said:
There's a difference between taking cues from someone's knife design and what Microtech did with the Matrix. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.
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It's not up to you to question what I think and what I buy. Maybe more of us should re read post 164 by Rev.
 
Final Option said:
It's not up to you to question what I think and what I buy. Maybe more of us should re read post 164 by Rev.
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Sure it is. The idea that the other members of a knife forum shouldn't have opinions about what you say about knives or the knives you buy is ludicrous. Even more ludicrous is the idea that we shouldn't judge the behavior of major figures in the industry. Most ludicrous is the idea we shouldn't judge the business practices of the companies that make the knives we buy.

I'm not saying that we have to look for negatives or be unforgiving but to espouse the idea that you shouldn't express your opinions or take a side on a forum seems pretty silly to me.
 
Final Option said:
It's not up to you to question what I think and what I buy. Maybe more of us should re read post 164 by Rev.
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I don't question what you buy, nor do I care. But I strongly disagree with your original statement.

Final Option said:
The automotive industry, computer companies, etc., they all copy each other to a degree.
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Not to the degree that Microtech has with the ZT0777. Ford hasn't made a duplicate of the Camaro, nor has Chevy made a duplicate of the Mustang.

If you didn't want someone to question how you think, why would you even bother posting your opinion in this thread?
 
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At the end of the day, where you put your money is your choice.

Other people's opinions are good guidelines, but the decision is yours.

For me, politics, business model, QC/warranty, and the products offered affect my choice.

Microtech doesn't have anything I'm interested in, as I don't care for "tactical" knives.

Tertiary to that are the warranty and politics.

Quality control and business model are why I won't buy Benchmade, as it lowers perceived value.

Most important to me, though, is the materials to cost ratio, and warranty support.

As I've said before, if a company won't support the product I'm buying, why should I support them?
 
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I'm confused by the whole idea that anyone needs to "let it go". What's the point of a knife forum if not to voice opinions, both positive and negative, about knife-related stuff (e.g. knives, knife companies, knife shows, etc.)?

There are plenty of perfectly legitimate reasons someone might dislike Microtech, and might want to share that opinion with other knife enthusiasts. They're guilty of some silly tacticool moves, like the Jagdkommando twisty dagger of silliness or naming a model "Death On Contact". They appear to have some issues with copying the designs of other companies (I'm no expert, but their Matrix does seem very similar to the 0777 to me). They use those idiotic triangular screws. They have questionable customer service policies, and so forth.

If I wanted a forum where dissent wasn't allowed I'd be signed into that other forum where all they do is stroke every knife maker's ego.
 
Goose 7279 said:
Im sorry you feel that way. By no means was i trying to a paint you into a corner and take the enjoyment out of it for you/ anger you. I guess a PM would have been more appropriate. I just seen you had posted in here and assumed, you didnt mind discussing it openly. I sincerely apoligize Rev.

There is, in fact, another reason i asked you the question entirely. The reason being some of us hold , or at some point, held you in a high regard. So if someone i respect says something it carries alot of weight for me.

As for the companys making money not friends, they're still companys out there that do not believe that way. For me the one that comes to mind is Carothers they have been better to me than some family has been. As i said not trying to upset anyone i just wanted to understand the where and why's of it all all. Also if it is indeed going in circles it may be time to shut it down. I will not be posting again after this but will read the latest updates. Thanks for your time.
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No harm done at all Goose. I appreciate your question and understand the way most people that have posted feel. I was trying to be as neutral as possible in my reply. This is a difficult to discuss and polarizing topic, as you have a strong fan base for and against at every turn. Consumers should be adequately informed before buying anything, it helps to know what you are getting into so to speak. We've all seen the stigma associated with some of the blatant overseas counterfeit items.

I do agree that some companies enjoy the friends they have made along the way, those being the most ardent supporters. Others don't seem to care one way or the other. I would advise that people do some research, look at both the good and the bad and make a decision based on that.
 
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