When will folks let it go - Microtech

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Honestly I have only ever owned 3 Microtech Knives. A Socom Elite, A Socom Delta Serrated, and a Select Fire (Manual only). All of the knives were of very good quality with impeccable fit and finish. Although the Elite and Select fire were WAY overpriced considering they are aluminium bodied knives. Now living in Canada there is absolutely zero chance of me ever sending my knives into Microtech for service. My Socom Elite's pivot screws started to get loose developing blade play and de-centering the blade. Now the Elite does not have a pivot that you can adjust without a special tool. This meant I had to get VERY creative to tighten the pivot without damaging the knife. This kind of pissed me off as I felt like it was indicative of a company that didn't give a crap about my experience. First of all that they would send out a knife with a pivot not even snugged down enough that it would come loose so fast. Secondly that they provide no way for me to so much as adjust my pivot.

Well this has been kind of a rant but I want to say that I feel like Microtech's manual action knives seem to be of very good quality. The issues seem to be mostly in their automatics which I have heard (if not personally experienced) of many problems with them. If I drop the coin it takes to buy a Microtech in Canada (alot) or someone drops the loot to buy an Auto in the states we don't want to feel like if there is a problem we are up poop creek. Marfione has done nothing to make people confident that they will stand behind their knives. Basically I feel like they are one time money making items that once out the door they have no intention of seeing again.

The point of this long post is that seeing the egotistical childlike behaviour of Microtech's owner makes me even less confident that the business exists for any reason other than to line his pockets. I have never even used my Microtechs for fear that if anything should happen to them there will be nothing I can do. That is why I say I feel their knives are all flash and no substance. It's like buying a Ferrari and then finding out that there is no service for it or way to get it fixed.
 
I think Marfione is also probably pretty sensitive about losing money after the whole MSAR fiasco.
 
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Microtech has a bad PR problem. Right up with their bad customer service reputation.
Zero Tolerance has a good reputation.

Marfione going after a blogger and after KAI when everyone knows they stole the 0777 design makes things worse. I love the Microtechs I own, but they make some boneheaded decisions.
 
MarkN86 said:
Emotions definitely run strong when money is involved. It was wrong to produce and sell a knife so similar to the 0777, but I feel like the way KAI handled it was what caused part of the trouble.

Maybe I missed some part of the story, but if someone stole my design I'd tactfully take them to court without making a bunch of public comments or threats and get business taken care of. Maybe there was more to it, there are a lot of things that happen behind closed doors.

I don't have either knife, I don't have a dog in the fight. All I will say is to be sure of what you stand for, as a lot of times it is wrongs from both sides that keep escalating. This is where we have to turn the other cheek and make it a point to stop the madness rather than try to prove who is right or wrong. Looks like enough neutral parties have taken sides and have been wounded by this, I wouldn't want to get caught in the crossfire or be responsible for making things worse.

It's ok to have an opinion, just don't use it as a club.
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the problem is, they can't really take them to court due to no patent on the design. and from the look of it MT don't want to stop making the Matrix, but maybe that's the only thing that will make it stop. ZT asked them to stop using the patented lock bar, but that didn't stop MT from continuing to make the matrix.

I've seen a few companies goto court and WIN because there product was clearly copied, but its a rare thing to happen. a major shoe company and some automotive aftermarket parts.

iirc the reason MT is going after ZT is because of how Tony S. painted the picture of Tony M. in the blog article and Tony M. thinks ZT was behind those negative words from what I assume.
 
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^^ Within the above post is the answer to the subject title of the thread.

People will stop caring when MT decides to stop producing the Matrix. That would certainly be a good first step even if he couldn't bring himself to actually apologize.
 
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If Microtech sucks, why should anyone let it go? If another knife company, say, Spyderco, started releasing knives that looked like another company's shown-off but unreleased models and suing bloggers and whatnot I'd hate on them too. Spyderco hasn't done that though, because they don't suck. Microtech, however . . .
 
What a bunch of blowhard's! If you don't want an MT or KAI then don't buy one. Thomas Welk vs Tony Marfione = 2 douche bags.

I just bought MT Troodon and am a ZT "fanboy" so I have no bias...I just buy what I like. I have 4 or 5 MT's and over 20 ZT's so just let it be. This is just another hate thread.
 
Yo Mama said:
I am not a Microtech fanboy....yet, I have just a new utx 85 that works great and I really like.

After the whole Microtech vs. KIA issue, many on this forum seem to have rushed to judgment. The way I see it we know very little, and existing bias towards Microtech is coming out.

What do we know:

1. Microtech threatened to sue Anthony Sculimbrene of Everyday Commentary. Anthony Sculimbrene has made a retraction at: http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/...es-formal-retraction-of-greatest-knife-piece/

The response here on the forum was that Anthony must have been pressured into doing so,....instead of giving the thought that it was on his own, a decision made as an adult, and having spent time with Anthony Marfione which doesn't strike me as the owner of Microtech trying to be a bully but instead a teacher.

2. Microtech and KAI issues: going back through a few years past it appears that at bladeshow the throw down was given, by both companies. None of us were there, and I'm sorry but KAI's rep in the past on bf has been less than respectful and couldn't handle moderating their own forum. I'm not going to judge Microtech's response, because I think Marfione explained exactly what happened, with KAI threatening to make an otf with Microtech design, and Microtech showing if that's what they wanted they would get the same thing in return.

3. Microtech and Anthony Marfione suing their own family: We again know nothing about this or the people involved. A few posters on bf empathized with family dysfunction, but most seemed to be able to immediately judge Anthony because he is suing his Son. Sorry, but family can sometimes be the first to stab you in the back, so until we know more.....again......we know nothing!

So that we know nothing, in the future when anyone asks or discusses Microtech, keep the bs out. If you have personal feelings against the company than fine, take it somewhere else, like a shrink, because I think a few people here need one.
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Why is it any of our business if a person sues another? It isn't, threads like this simply serve to perpetuate the supposed problem and alleged issues whether real or imagined. Personally, I as a customer and enthusiast, I couldn't care less who is suing who. I have nothing to do with it and frankly, I don't think many people waste copious amounts of energy worrying about it either. The reason people don't let it go is because they are not allowed to forget about it and move on, they hold onto misinformation and propagate it with additional embellishments of their own to make things juicier. I say, if people want to spend their time in court over whatever they need to, that is their deal, none of us has any skin in the game or have anything at stake as a result. It gets old and starts being redundantly stupid.
 
I like to keep up on knifemakers. I prefer to buy from people that I respect and trust. When I'm looking into a knife purchase I research the maker. I go to knife shows and meet the makers and have conversations with them about their knives. I then choose the knives I buy based on both the knife itself and the maker. There are enough great knives out there and my funds are limited enough that I need to find ways to buy knives that I'm most satisfied with and get the most pride of ownership out of. The people behind the knives are a big part of that to me.

If you don't care, I'm fine with that. Posting that people are drama mamas is just a way to insert yourself into a conversation that you don't belong in. In other words, you yourself are attempting to stir up drama. If a topic is of interest to you, post in the thread. If it's not move on to the next. It's not that complicated.
 
I feel like in many ways when you have a celebrity face behind a knife company it creates a kind of special situation.

That celebrity status means I can't give money to the company without knowing that I am giving money to that person.

It's comparable to this, I have a favourite rapper so I am happy to buy his music. I know my money is going to him. Now let's say there is a rapper who I dislike as a person for whatever reason. I don't want to give him my money.
 
RevDevil said:
I say, if people want to spend their time in court over whatever they need to, that is their deal, none of us has any skin in the game or have anything at stake as a result. It gets old and starts being redundantly stupid.
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I think we have a lot of skin in the game. Microtech sued a knife enthusiast for expressing his opinions about a knife company and its owner. I know Microtech wouldn't agree to that characterization, but what Sculimbrene wrote could just as easily have come from anyone here. Then Microtech turned around and sued KAI and its social media manager for merely posting hyperlinks to that article. Again, something that could just just have easily been done by someone here. When a knife company starts going after knife enthusiasts (and then after individuals for posting hyperlinks), it has an obvious "chilling effect" on frank and open discussion in the knife community.

Lawsuits solely between companies (e.g., Cold Steel's suit against CRKT for the "virtual fixed blade" line) are one thing, but I think this pair of cases is a whole other bag of worms.
 
brancron said:
I think we have a lot of skin in the game. Microtech sued a knife enthusiast for expressing his opinions about a knife company and its owner. I know Microtech wouldn't agree to that characterization, but what Sculimbrene wrote could just as easily have come from anyone here. Then Microtech turned around and sued KAI and its social media manager for merely posting hyperlinks to that article. Again, something that could just just have easily been done by someone here. When a knife company starts going after knife enthusiasts (and then after individuals for posting hyperlinks), it has an obvious "chilling effect" on frank and open discussion in the knife community.

Lawsuits solely between companies (e.g., Cold Steel's suit against CRKT for the "virtual fixed blade" line) are one thing, but I think this pair of cases is a whole other bag of worms.
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Now this I don't like. I am not sure why he settled but it does not set a good precedent going forward. Freedom of speech has gotten to be a freedom as long as no one disagrees.
 
brancron said:
I think we have a lot of skin in the game. Microtech sued a knife enthusiast for expressing his opinions about a knife company and its owner. I know Microtech wouldn't agree to that characterization, but what Sculimbrene wrote could just as easily have come from anyone here. Then Microtech turned around and sued KAI and its social media manager for merely posting hyperlinks to that article. Again, something that could just just have easily been done by someone here. When a knife company starts going after knife enthusiasts (and then after individuals for posting hyperlinks), it has an obvious "chilling effect" on frank and open discussion in the knife community.

Lawsuits solely between companies (e.g., Cold Steel's suit against CRKT for the "virtual fixed blade" line) are one thing, but I think this pair of cases is a whole other bag of worms.
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There are a lot of people, individuals that are not in the business of cutlery at all, just reviewers, accumulators, enthusiasts, etc. If you have your own blog, YT channel, etc then you have some degree of free speech. However free that might be, we still have to watch what we say and write. I see a lot of posts that are loaded with misinformation, half truths, lies, and blatant exaggerations of various kinds. Again, we have nothing to do between a lawsuit between one company and another, unless you are called in as an expert witness or something. I don't know and am not familiar at all with the people that Microtech is going after, nor do I care. It has NOTHING to do with me, and will not impact my life in any way regardless of what the final verdict may be. I tend not to put myself into precarious situations and I am always trying to be cognizant of what I say to people and what I write online (once it reaches the internet, it cannot be taken back and becomes part of the public record).

The context of my commentary can be twisted if I decide to try and be funny and maybe mistakenly choose the wrong words. Then my proverbial (virtual and real) ass might get into trouble. In this day and age and for the last 20+ years it's easy for one party to sue another. The case does not need to have any substance what so ever, it can simply be a move to punish someone by tying them up in court and making them spend money. If you have a few grand for a lawyer, you can pretty much file a lawsuit against anyone you want. The winner is usually the one that has the most money and can prove their case (obviously).

As far as this place goes, there is far too much conjecture about things that some folks know nothing about. Instead of stating things as such, they write things in a "matter of fact" tone that should not be challenged. That is the beginning of when people step on their pee pee. If you mistakenly spread misinformation about a company without knowing what is really going on, yes you are liable for slander and possible defamation. We all have opinions about some companies business practices, their treatment of customers, and their products. It's all in HOW we say and write those things if we chose to discuss them. Some folks get too comfortable behind the anonymity of their online persona and don't realize they are not unreachable.
 
It's like buying a Ferrari and then finding out that there is no service for it or way to get it fixed.
 
Cory Hess said:
I like to keep up on knifemakers. I prefer to buy from people that I respect and trust. When I'm looking into a knife purchase I research the maker. I go to knife shows and meet the makers and have conversations with them about their knives. I then choose the knives I buy based on both the knife itself and the maker. There are enough great knives out there and my funds are limited enough that I need to find ways to buy knives that I'm most satisfied with and get the most pride of ownership out of. The people behind the knives are a big part of that to me.

If you don't care, I'm fine with that. Posting that people are drama mamas is just a way to insert yourself into a conversation that you don't belong in. In other words, you yourself are attempting to stir up drama. If a topic is of interest to you, post in the thread. If it's not move on to the next. It's not that complicated.
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Again, everyone is entitled to buy or not buy from whatever company they like for whatever resons they want. I don't see anything wrong with that and I do practice that myself to a large extent with many items that I purchase. This being an open topic, anyone has as much right to post their thoughts as you. The original question was when will everyone finally let this go, that was what I addressed in my post. The people that repeatedly post conjecture as fact are the ones stirring the pot. What that does is fill the heads of newbies with bad information and then they carry that as truth because they "read it on an online knife forum, so it must be true". It's hard to forget things when you are constantly reminded of them. Once thing to note is that at some point or another and if you search hard enough, it's not impossible to find a slightly stained area on almost anyone's halo. No one has a perfect record in every column in this business or any other. I'm not admonishing anyone, just stating a perspective that seems to have been overlooked so far.
 
I guess my answer to the thread title is never. MT and Marfione have done enough to turn me off of their products forever.

Like Brancron mentioned above, the lawsuit against Tony just hits too close to home. He's a lawyer himself at least and probably didn't find himself too out of sorts, but I don't want to imagine what the lawsuit would've done to my life. All because I hurt some maker's feelings.
 
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