Where would you make your stand?

not2sharp said:
What are your plans if things begin to fall apart; and, parts of the country begin to resemble New Orleans during Katrina?
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That would become a target rich environment. I keep a good amount of essential supplies in my home to get along quite nicely for some weeks without going outside or having electricity.

When I WOULD need to do so, in the event that order hadn't been restored in the mean time, the barter system would be the first offering, after which the law of the jungle would take effect.

However I don't think it would be that terrible for more than a few weeks until basic things would sort themselves out again. Barring a natural disaster, if your community is fairly civil in the first place, it will be fairly civil in the event of a loss of power/services/authority.

If it's filled with scum bags prior too, like the terrible parts of NO affected by Katrina, then I would recommend the products made by either EO Tech or Trijicon, perhaps Leupold, and a caliber close to .30 ;)
 
Thomas Linton said:
The last time I saw gasoline stations without fuel was in the 1970's and was due to the boycott of the west by middle eastern oil producers. What "failures" "in the past 2 decades"? I'm live in the poorest, or send-poorest SMA in the U.S. I buy food and fuel regualrly. How have I missed these events?
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you weren't paying attention last summer. ;)


The Bonus Army incident is hardly a good example of civil unrest. The Bonus Marchers were orderly and exercising their right to petition the government to pass legislation when attacked by the governments forces. The first shots were fired AFTER the marchers had evacuated the half-demolished, otherwise-unoccuplied government building they had squatted in. Then, the Army troops moved with gas, fixed bayonets, and bare sabers. This is not how we handle peaceful protesters today.
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you cannot be that naive. do a youtube search for police brutality. specifically during the DNC and RNC over the past two elections.


Please assist us with proof that current unemployment numbers undercount the unemployed as compared to 1938. I would have thought that, with about 1,000,000 wandering the nation with no addresses, unemployment would have been undercounted in the Depression, but I am surely ready to be educated.
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the books are being cooked. if the unemployment rate was calculated today the way it 60 years ago, it would be at 16% and climbing. 671,000 people lost their jobs in February alone. Sacramento now has a tent city.
 
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Robert H said:
...However I don't think it would be that terrible for more than a few weeks until basic things would sort themselves out again. ...
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That is pretty much how I read it too. A couple of weeks after the lost of authority the sheep will begin to re-learn freedom and individual responsibility; by the third week there wouldn't be many gangster/drug dealer/ thug, left alive within most of the US. The once sheep turned into vengeful force would have tried and strung most of them up.

n2s
 
Obviously I'm a new guy, but have been hanging with hunters/shooters/survivalists & warriors (both self proclaimed and actual) for some time. This discussion ALWAYS brings up a lot of opinions & arguments, and essentially provides for great reading IMO.

Some have approached this thread from a very casual "wait it out" stance, but I read into the OP's question that it was referring to a more serious scenario....maybe not EOTWAWKI in full, but close. I'll say this: if there's a scenario that presents enough threat or worry to inspire me to pack up the family, supplies and firearms, I'm gonna treat it like the World is crashing around me, at least soon.

My plan includes 40 acres of family owned land in Northern AZ, pretty well hidden, very tough to get to, with two sound housing structures tucked pretty deep into the pinions & junipers. I've arranged a GOOD (Get Out Of Dodge) plan that's pretty sound, but is also my biggest concern. BOBs are ready, but a full evac list is ready in the garage, listing essentials and essentials only (gonna hurt to leave all those guns, but if it doesn't throw .45 ACP, .22LR, or 7.62 downfield, it stays....we'll see how strong that safe really is I guess...). Food is pretty plentiful there, and water can be a challenge, but not a struggle.

Frankly, I'm a little more preoccupied with the 2-legged theats than anything, simply because people turn into bizarre and unpredictable creatures when the gas stations dry up and store shelves go bare. Turn off the lights, and they become downright scary. I've trained for these obstacles extensively, but need to get better at my bushcraft. Guess that's why I'm here! ;)

Ray
 
lvbuckeye27 said:
you weren't paying attention last summer. ;)
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I had no trouble buying gasoline last summer. I heard about shortages elsewhere, but I did not associate those shortages with economic troubles or civil disorder. I thought it was weather-related. Enlighten us. Maybe existing in the garden spot that is the Cleveland area has fooled me about how bad the rest of the country has it.

you cannot be that naive. do a youtube search for police brutality. specifically during the DNC and RNC over the past two elections.
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The Bonus March folks were occupying abandoned, half-demolished government-owned buildings. They just wanted shelter. Not even a "sit in" or "occupation." Generally, we do not shoot squatters today.

If folks block streets, smash in windows, and throw stuff, there will be consequences.

How many were shot dead at the DNC or RNC in the last twenty years? (Wouldn't 1968 have been a better example of "police brutality.")

Thank you for the "naive," however. It makes me feel young.

Have anything to say about history supporting the notion that the current recession will lead to breakdown of food distribution, famine, breakdown of civil order, and extended power outages, ?

the books are being cooked. if the unemployment rate was calculated today the way it 60 years ago, it would be at 16% and climbing.
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Says who? What do you actually know about how unemployement was calculated sixty years ago (1949), much less 1938? A conclusion without any support is just an expression of your belief.

I don't mean to sound like a "doubting thomas [Well, i guess I do.], but I recall the 250,000 Chinese troops hiding in Mexico, "The Coming Deflation" that was to totally destroy the value of the dollar, and the many other predictions of TEOTWAWKI over the decades. Then there was Y2K, which absolutely, postively was going to be THE END!!!!! Yet here we are.

See, when you hear " WOLF!!!" every five years or so, it takes proof, not mere belief (or, for some, eager anticipation) to convince me that the Bad Thing is about to happen anytime soon.
 
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Don't forget the Amero! :D

And FEMA camps! :eek: !!!!!!!

Run for the hills!
 
Lot's of good opinions, but I'd just want to add, be prepared for anything and have several plans in place, then act accordingly.
Check out the book "Back to Basics" on amazon, a big green hardcover number, the best book of it's kind I have ever seen.
As for ammo, considering how tight money is these days I may have to put all my eggs in one basket and stock up on a lot of .22 ammo, and maybe a fair bit of 12 guage in several variations and some .308 as well.
You can do an awful lot with an accurate .22.
 
I think it was along the lines that we were talking. The pressure is building up a little more than usual.
 
I have to say thanks to all posting to this thread. This has been--is--one of the most informative and enjoyable I've seen on the site. Lots of great opinions and tips, very little 'verbal combat,' and lots of great reading.

I just took a break from the computer for a few minutes to feed my cats. Got me to thinking about what to do with pets if bugout time actually comes. I guess I would try to take them with me into the boonies. Probably let my three cats run wild and go feral. The dogs are the problem. I have five Great Pyreenes and two sizeable mutts. I love them all but big dogs don't do well as feral predators in deep woods where I'll be if I can get there and literally tons of dogfood is out of the question. The 'hard' solution? Butcher the dogs and jerk the meat. I've eaten dog before, in Korea, Africa, India, and other places. It's not a favorite of mine but certainly edible. So, figuring roughly 40 to 50 percent meat to live body weight, I'd come up with something like 300 lbs of dog meat.

No way I would butcher the cats and they're a lot better equipped to survive than dogs. Smaller, able to climb, and can get fat eating grasshoppers. I'm sure my three would stay close to me in the boonies and, damnit!, I would share my food, cave, and fire with them. Best sleeping 'pill' in the world is a cat purring beside your head and they're also a super 'watch dog' if you learn to read them.

BTW, Alton Brown on Good Eats did an excellent show last night on methods of making and long term storage of jerky. If you missed it, watch for it to come up again. Some really good info.
 
Why not a dog as a partner in food-gathering and security --
a force-multiplier? They were that for many millenia before they were "pets."

Of course, they might be confused by the stench of the rotting bodies of the millions of dead in TEOTWAWKI. It would carry on the winds for quite a ways.
 
Cleveland? Hey head down to Dicks' in the Flats and give some of those waiteresses a hard time for me....They'll know who you're talking about,GRIN!

If the SHTF and I was in Cleveland I'd bust into the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame and grab Chuck Berry's guitar and take it through a couple of tunes!

Cleveland is'nt that bad, well not the part I used to live in down by the Polo Fields,Grin!

I got a 4 cat blanket every night to keep me warm CW4. I let 'em out to kill all day then they come back in at Sunset with whatever bird or mouse they happened on in the garden or woods. Pretty fair trade to let them back in and eat a bit of cat chow and sleep on the bed. Cheap entertainment on the catnip too!
 
I agree with Thomas, at least one, dogs have a extremely enhanced hearing and smell senses, loyal and territorial. You don't even have to put them to fight for you (although the Great Pyrenees is a big scary dog) they can just alert you of potential trouble with their barking. Little radars!
 
If we wound up in a Great Depression type of scenario, and I was unable to find work, I'd probably move in with one or the other of my parents.. they both own their homes so at least there will be a roof and 4 walls. Getting water at my mom's would be a problem; no idea where the nearest creek is; we'd have to set up some cisterns to collect rainwater off the roof. Plenty of room to grow food at both places, though I know we'll be scraping to get by.

If there is a widespread loss of social/government stability, SHTF, whatever, in the words of a friend: "we'll all be farmers fighting off the warlords." I have little hope for survival in such a situation. I could probably disappear into the nearby wildlife preserve for a time and live on cactus, a sack of beans, and maybe the occasional deer, but I wouldn't last long. I don't have the finances for any sort of real preparation. I live in one of those 2-acre-lot-with-trailerhome neighborhoods, and aside from one nearby family, I wouldn't trust anyone else out here as far as I could throw them. Soil here is too crappy for farming of any kind. House is not defensible. Only chance is to find a group of just the right size and in just the right location to join, and since I wind up getting tendonitis and stuff every time I do any sort of hard physical labor, I don't think any of those groups would want me except as a sex object. And I'd rather die than subjugate myself.
 
I'll be making my stand from the top of the Empire State building. I'll be ready for those dang planes this time! ook! ook!
 
it seems when you explain to people the situation we are in they laugh. it's out of blind ignorance.
just prepare. it's only going to get much worse!
 
I feel that civil unrest is less intimidating than other potential threats. Namely some ecological or weather catastrophe.Civil unrest would likely be held in check by the authorities,albeit bloodily.In the US you seem to have formidable police forces,National Guard etc so I believe they would quite rapidly contain the situation.

It is true that a rural milieu offers the most promising survival option, people there are usually more self sufficient and have valuable basic knowledge&skills in food provision and day to day practicalities .Better able to face deprivations from lack of electricity,water or fuels etc,less panicked or hysterical perhaps. What I would lay in would be some obvious staples,grains,dried beans,tinned food but also vitamin pills and some medications. Being armed is a necessity but perhaps not over-armed, just the gun(s)you are used to and that are reliable.Whatever you decide, I have to say I feel it is essential to keep very quiet about any stockpiling you may be doing, if word gets round that you have a large cache of food and an arsenal of weapons this could certainly arouse unwelcome&dangerous interest in times of real crisis. Keep a low profile as much as possible.

My biggest fear is not civil unrest (it's always possible and has been happening in the US and Europe from time to time it's true) but as I wrote at the beginning,some environmental catastrophe. Freak and prolonged weather can test even the most up to date societies,sudden water level rises,a giant earthquake with a connected tsunami for instance. Worse still, would be a nuclear catastrophe at a power station wether from incompetence/accident or criminal attack,if this were to occur near a major city in Europe or the US this really would cause a collapse in daily life,possibly permanent. The mass evacuation of people would be a huge strain on food,transport and shelter provision,then there's the deadly contamination....The accident in Tschernobyl, Ukraine in 1986 was very serious and very nearly became a nightmare if the thing had melted down completely.As it is, the contamination of the surroundings was considerable as was the massive drift of pollution, the contamination continues to make large areas uninhabitable(although wildlife has reproduced un disturbed,albeit in mutated forms in some cases.The cancer rates across Europe have risen, but some argue this is due to other factors.Whatever, trying to survive this kind of threat would make sitting tight in your property if it were in the contamination zone,completely ridiculous. A major health pandemic of a flu-like disease could also be very intimidating,this rather than economic discontent leading to civil unrest would be a major problem to plan against.But getting out into a rural context and keeping contact minimal is again your best bet.
 
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