Which Steel Has the Best Edge Retention?

DeadboxHero said:
What kind of testing?
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Element analysis, finding 10 year old tests on the internet that Larrin can not verify was done properly or even with the right steels is why first hand testing is what's needed.

There's a million what ifs that finding tests on the internet bring, like what if the people who did those tests had a grudge against Jerry? What if they made a mistake?

Where's the documentation from a first hand test to remove all speculation about the validity of the "tests" ?

He came and made some bold claims without doing any tests of his own, finding things on the internet is something any noob who signed up yesterday can do.
 
shinyedges said:
Element analysis, finding 10 year old tests on the internet that Larrin can not verify was done properly or even with the right steels is why first hand testing is what's needed.

There's a million what ifs that finding tests on the internet bring, like what if the people who did those tests had a grudge against Jerry? What if they made a mistake?

Where's the documentation from a first hand test to remove all speculation about the validity of the "tests" ?

He came and made some bold claims without doing any tests of his own, finding things on the internet is something any noob who signed up yesterday can do.
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Yup, and he bashed a guy for not being scientific (rightfully so imo) but then turns around and does the same as he has accused, multiple times.

If you want to be an expert, do your own research.

It's that simple.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Quantify, what kind of testing? A Catra test?
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I'm not sure "any" testing can be more clear. Anything. One simple thing. Any test of any sort would be better than reading what other people have done and reporting it here. Buy a knife and test it.

You and I both have more experience with the steels he is talking about, on one of our pudgy fingers, pinky no less.

Point being, dude needs to put up or shut up. Stop trying to drive clicks to your website. Use some knives....
 
Larrin, two points regarding your definition of cutting ability vs sharpness: one a minor nit and the other more substantive IMO.

You wrote:
Cutting ability is the overall energy required for completing a cut, while sharpness is the energy required for cut “initiation” which correlates strongly with the edge tip width or radius. Higher sharpness increases cutting ability. Lower edge angle or thickness behind the edge increases cutting ability independent of sharpness. You can read more in this article on sharpness vs cutting ability. The CATRA edge retention tester measures cutting ability, not sharpness. So while the cutting ability is reduced throughout the test by a reduction in sharpness, it is not actually measuring sharpness. This is important when comparing tests with different edge angles as the cutting ability is different independent of sharpness.
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First the minor nit. The CATRA test measures the rate of change of the cutting ability, not the cutting ability as you've defined it. Two knives can have the same initial geometry and thus same cutting ability but one may degrade faster than the other.

Second concern is more substantive. The CATRA test doesn't measure the durability of cutting ability in any universal sense. It only measures the durability of the cutting ability for cutting scenarios that are closely modeled by the CATRA test, both in blade movement and material being cut. This test does nothing to replicate edge damage from hitting a hard object while cutting (e.g. cutting food on a cutting board or hitting a bone while processing meat), nor does it generate large lateral loads on a blade (e.g. like you can get in wood working).

This is to say that terms like "cutting ability" can be counter-productive when used in a manner that is not clearly associated with a clearly stated usage scenario.
 
pinnah said:
Larrin, two points regarding your definition of cutting ability vs sharpness: one a minor nit and the other more substantive IMO.

You wrote:


First the minor nit. The CATRA test measures the rate of change of the cutting ability, not the cutting ability as you've defined it. Two knives can have the same initial geometry and thus same cutting ability but one may degrade faster than the other.

Second concern is more substantive. The CATRA test doesn't measure the durability of cutting ability in any universal sense. It only measures the durability of the cutting ability for cutting scenarios that are closely modeled by the CATRA test, both in blade movement and material being cut. This test does nothing to replicate edge damage from hitting a hard object while cutting (e.g. cutting food on a cutting board or hitting a bone while processing meat), nor does it generate large lateral loads on a blade (e.g. like you can get in wood working).

This is to say that terms like "cutting ability" can be counter-productive when used in a manner that is not clearly associated with a clearly stated usage scenario.
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I think if you re-read the articles you will find those aspects being discussed. They are long articles so it is easy to miss things.
 
By the way, how thick is a CATRA card?
I cannot find a definitive answer online myself.
 
marrenmiller said:
Sounds good.

I'll keep clicking them. They're worth the read.
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I think the suggestion was to post the actual article here, rather than linking to another site, particularly one which asks for public donations. Donate away, by all means, but other forum users who have a financial interest in promoting a service, i.e. people involved in actually making and selling knives, have to pay premium rates to use this global site. You may regard these articles, which amount to little more than good undergraduate essays, as adding significantly to the global sum of knowledge, but others may disagree.

The elephant in the room is money.
 
DeadboxHero said:
What's great too is that folks can see how the carbide volume, hardness and most importantly edge angle can influence the edge retention
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And lastly and probably most important is .............grit...grit.......... grit size of sharpening medium we use to sharpen knife :D Big bear , you should try to sharpen one knife with 40 grit ..... I can bet that you will forget when last time you sharpen that knife :p
 
DeadboxHero said:
Let's see some values plugged in to the formula guys

CPM 10v at 67hrc and 25° inclusive.

−157+15.8×67−17.8×25+26.2×17.5

= 915 Predicted Total Cards Cut

CPM 15v at 63hrc and 30° inclusive.

−157+15.8×63−17.8×30+26.2×23

=907 TCC
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Can you make this math for M42 steel on 68 - 70 Hrc ?
 
Pilsner said:
I think the suggestion was to post the actual article here, rather than linking to another site, particularly one which asks for public donations. Donate away, by all means, but other forum users who have a financial interest in promoting a service, i.e. people involved in actually making and selling knives, have to pay premium rates to use this global site. You may regard these articles, which amount to little more than good undergraduate essays, as adding significantly to the global sum of knowledge, but others may disagree.

The elephant in the room is money.
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Forgive me but I fail to see how the current practice takes anything from Bladeforums.
 
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