Who cares about bones, antlers, etc, from endangered species as part of a traditional Knife?

My line in the sand is at Ivory ... Elephant, Walrus whatever
And pre-ban does not equal pre-poacher, so I won't buy one of those either
If I get a whiff of Giraffe or any other animal killed simply for firearm and knife handles or grey market for example, I won't buy those either. YMMV ... mine doesn't
 
The robin is not on the endangered species list at all. The US population is over 300 million currently. They are protected under the Migratory Bird Act of 1918 like most other native song birds though.
The Spotted owl isn't either.....its classified as "near threatened"...whatever that means....
thnx for clarification 🙏
 
With ceaseless population 'growth' the threat to resources, habitats and eco-systems is remorseless . The question of endangered species is a complex one and it's certainly not a stance either/or . The total policing of peoples' property, banning already existing artefacts either public in museums or private is no answer, moreover it will teach us nothing. We need to learn about the totality of our past good &bad and not a current or sanitised version that suits contemporary tastes/urges/prejudices. If we look at magnificent carvings made of Ivory we should marvel at the skill of those who could do it and abhor those who sought to make money & trade out of killing a great sentient being like an Elephant merely for its teeth, and the vanity of men. Likewise with the Great Whales, animals almost certainly exceeding our intelligence, driven to near extinction by unrestricted whaling for oil, bone, meat and spurious cultural 'traditions' Such a thing is a shame to our species indeed.

Nor is it good enough to say "Well I can afford it and I'll do what I damn well like with my money, anyway the thing's dead now or one bit of wood won't make a difference to a forest" If an Acorn grows to a mighty Oak, thus cutting a tree destroys the home and habitat of many things, cutting thousand ruins millions, never re-planting means extinction is forever and vanity is as brief as our lives - sometimes as toxic. There have to be limits or measures due to the wasteful nature of humans. A forest takes a century to grow, it can be razed to the ground by machines in hours.

Ivory is certainly not a very durable material for knife scales, it cracks and shrinks a lot, personally, I don't even like the look of it much and synthetic/faux substitutes are preferable. Likewise Tortoiseshell- the cause of the death and extreme suffering of many species of Turtles. Limits only seem to come when people have sobered up and noticed at last an animal, tree or habitat is on the very edge of extinction. Do we really feel it's OK to poach Rhino or Tiger simply because somebody has the money to do it, is corrupt enough to accept bribes, take the money and is grotesquely ignorant enough to believe it will revive their sagging virility etc? No.

These endangered species lists and restrictions are entirely because of humans' massive destructive imprint on the globe, without some attempts at regulation there will be nothing as in the Carrier Pigeon. With Stag, the antlers are hopefully shed naturally, Deer can be farmed or bred so it is a replenished resource, likewise Bovine bone is plentiful and constantly replenished. There are others such as Camel which makes a decent knife handle and is endlessly available, I've often wondered why Horse Bone isn't used, it must be strong as Horses are powerful animals that can pull vehicles and carry people so why not? The Hooves are used for knife scales at least. Giraffe, I don't know...why use them? You don't generally eat them. OK if they have been farmed or die in captivity but otherwise I would not accept it.
 
I really like tortoise shell but fully understand why it is illegal. I have a few acrylic knife covers in that "pattern" and some are more appealing than others. The only ivory I have ever held are the bugle teeth from the elk I've hunted but those are too small for a knife, might make a neat shield though now that I'm thinking about it.

Cheers,
 
I collect only cheap knives, mostly with plastic handles, but even then I’m contributing to pollution and environmental damage by consuming more than is strictly necessary.

On the flip side, the people making these things need to feed their families and build their communities, so there needs to be some sort of balance.
To clarify - when I say the people making these things need to feed their families and build their communities, I am referring to the people who make the cheap stuff I buy, not anybody who deals in poaching or the trade in endangered or threatened species parts, or the people who do illegal logging.
 
The robin is not on the endangered species list at all. The US population is over 300 million currently. They are protected under the Migratory Bird Act of 1918 like most other native song birds though.
The Spotted owl isn't either.....its classified as "near threatened"...whatever that means....

Thanks for that info. Yet the Robin is a protected species which means I can't blast them to eternity when they poop like crazy on our property as they pass through twice a year.

"Near Threatened" here at least means they can't be messed with.
 
My line in the sand is at Ivory ... Elephant, Walrus whatever
And pre-ban does not equal pre-poacher, so I won't buy one of those either
If I get a whiff of Giraffe or any other animal killed simply for firearm and knife handles or grey market for example, I won't buy those either. YMMV ... mine doesn't
Couldn’t agree more.
 
I doubt they would be destroyed, that would serve essentially no purpose. Illegal to sell, sure. That's my understanding of current laws anyway. You can have it, just can't sell or trade or buy or export it etc. If the law is that such artifacts must be destroyed then I'm not sure I agree with it. Secondary market demand can still drive production so I guess that makes sense, but it seems unnecessarily intrusive given the laws against selling.

If the stuff already exists then make whatever use of it we can, but in general I definitely agree on restricting the production/trade of these materials. Poachers are very motivated and very hard to stop, so if there is a demand to be met then someone is going to overdo the production every time.

I prefer dyed bone and cow shins look plenty fancy dyed and jigged and polished up, so no actual impact on me.
 
Firstly: The Golden Rule. It's your stuff, do what you want with it.

In My Opinion there's an ever-increasing pressure to judge everything from the past according to today's sensibilities. And, if my use of the term 'sensibilities' implies capricious folly, then thank you for paying attention. There's no morality in things. If Gambian Pfeffernüsse suddenly became illegal to harvest as of September 1, I see no value, moral or otherwise in destroying my GP knives. Selling them later might be problematic, of course, but that's a problem for my estate. You're welcome, son. Nobody's going to kick down my door to examine the contents of my knife cabinet unless I give them reason to.

But something purchased legally and in good faith on one day does not become evil the next.

I see great value in preserving animals and woods that are endangered. I've never liked Ivory. Say I've got an old knife, and can prove that it predates the bans in ivory trade. I have no way of knowing how it was harvested, so I just avoid it. But that's my bag, I don't fault anyone else for their ideas on the subject.

But, I also know that many of these laws are the result of bizarre forces that aren't rooted in logic. At one extreme there are those who would ban the use of all materials derived from living things. Or dead things. Or things that were alive ten thousand years ago. One wonders what they eat, or wear, or use for shelter. The other end of the spectrum is just as looney. Most people are in the middle and are quite capable of making reasonable decisions.

There's a pop culture term that makes me want to tear my brain out: Virtue Signaling. It's just so unreasonable. Something is deemed to be not only illegal, but also immoral. We cleanse ourselves and ensure the purity of future generations by destroying things. An empty gesture that only makes us feel good if others know we've atoned.

My advice, do what you know to be legal, and what you judge to be right.

In My Opinion
 
Should we protect endangered animals as much as we can ; YES

Should banning materials from extinct animals, Mammoth, Mastodon , ; NO. You can tell the difference so the argument that elephant ivory could be passed off as ancient is stretching it.
I guess it is easier to ban trade in it in many states ( Illinois, New York and many others) than to actually educate people to know what to look for. When enforcement gets sent in to check items they should know the difference.
 
only have a couple of bone knives, don’t really carry them. Just feels weird, nothing against eating animals though:)
 
I prefer natural materials for slip joints. My user fix blades I use in the field are micarta but that choice was for less maintenance. I don’t care much for the look of newer micartas, it’s fairly ugly to me. The natural materials are always beautiful and have been used to craft things for thousands of years. Im all for using natural materials into the future.
 
''(CITES) agreed to protect giraffes for the first time by listing the species on Appendix II, which will now regulate international trade in giraffe parts, such as hides, bones and meat.''

what you think about that?

Considering there are only like 70k TOTAL giraffes left in the wild, I think it’s great. I’d love for giraffes to still be in this world when my son is grown, and maybe has kids of his own…. But that probably wishful thinking.

There are plenty of natural, non-scarce materials that are very bit as beautiful as giraffe bone. I think I’ll stick with those.

“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man’s needs, but not every man’s greed.”

~Ghandi
 
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Should we protect endangered animals as much as we can ; YES

Should banning materials from extinct animals, Mammoth, Mastodon , ; NO. You can tell the difference so the argument that elephant ivory could be passed off as ancient is stretching it.
I guess it is easier to ban trade in it in many states ( Illinois, New York and many others) than to actually educate people to know what to look for. When enforcement gets sent in to check items they should know the difference.

is mammoth ivory banned? or just US mammoth? worldwide?

you have a link please?
 
Mammoth Ivory seems to be in active debate. In 2016, Israel proposed to CITES that they ban it too. That got shot down, but the idea is still alive at the state and country level, and is banned some places. Mainly because it can still be used as a means of smuggling elephant ivory while claiming it is fossil ivory.

This link has some info:
 
Mammoth Ivory seems to be in active debate. In 2016, Israel proposed to CITES that they ban it too. That got shot down, but the idea is still alive at the state and country level, and is banned some places. Mainly because it can still be used as a means of smuggling elephant ivory while claiming it is fossil ivory.

This link has some info:

thnx, i know about that debate, but Mammoth Ivory is not in a CITES Appendix.
no need of a certification for customers who buy knives with mammoth.
 
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Because the rarer it becomes the more valuable it becomes.
Also...once again... fossilised mammoth ivory isn't fossilised its just really really old...its ivory...if it was fossil it would be stone...just to be pedantic🤓.
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I spotted whales yesterday...pic isnt great but you can just see the spout.Point being that these were nearly hunted to extinction for their oil...that decline has turned around and they are back in great numbers...so things can be saved I hope.
 
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Seems that China's ban on Elephant Ivory, which they are REALLY serious about, led to a boom in demand for mammoth ivory, which resulted in a gold rush in Siberia for the stuff, down to using high pressure water to "mine" it out of the permafrost, which is already melting and starting to uncover more of it anyway. Which apparently has it's own environment impacts and unexpected costs.
You can Google "siberia mammoth ivory" and find a number of stories or articles about it. Here's one:


For me personally, I always viewed knives with mammoth handles as out of my price range, so whether it is ethical, moral, or green is a moot point for me. I am too poor to exploit that particular scarce resource.
 
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