Who cares about bones, antlers, etc, from endangered species as part of a traditional Knife?

[coolhand68]

I like mammoth ivory, and find it ridiculous that it is banned in some places. They’ve been dead for over 10K years and upon close inspection you can tell the difference between elephant and mammoth, but they are either too dumb or too lazy to bother. I like Pearl because it doesn’t shrink and it’s fairly durable but I only have one black tip Pearl knife and one abalone. Most of mine are bovine bone or wood. They should allow use of giraffe and other animal bone if the animal died of natural causes. I guess it’s too difficult to enforce that though with so many poachers out there.

 

[JoKr]

View attachment 1917686
Because the rarer it becomes the more valuable it becomes.
Also...once again... fossilised mammoth ivory isn't fossilised its just really really old...its ivory...if it was fossil it would be stone...just to be pedantic.
View attachment 1917691
I spotted whales yesterday...pic isnt great but you can just see the spout.Point being that these were nearly hunted to extinction for their oil...that decline has turned around and they are back in great numbers...so things can be saved I hope.

''... fossilised mammoth ivory isn't fossilised its just really really old...its ivory...if it was fossil it would be stone...just to be pedantic.''

you are not pedantic, you are partly wrong!

fossilized means digged, excaved, exhumed.

not all fossiles are mineralized, some are, some are partely and some are not.
same with the mammoth ivory, some ivory is mineralized some partly, some are like elephant ivory.

Fossil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Fixall]

I like mammoth ivory, and find it ridiculous that it is banned in some places. They’ve been dead for over 10K years and upon close inspection you can tell the difference between elephant and mammoth, but they are either too dumb or too lazy to bother. I like Pearl because it doesn’t shrink and it’s fairly durable but I only have one black tip Pearl knife and one abalone. Most of mine are bovine bone or wood. They should allow use of giraffe and other animal bone if the animal died of natural causes. I guess it’s too difficult to enforce that though with so many poachers out there.

I job shadowed a jeweler when I was in high school and he told me that pearls were the only gemstone that diminishes in value as the years go by because they are a natural material and lose their shine as they decompose. No idea if it’s true, but I thought it was interesting. No real bearing on the conversation, your comment just brought the memory back, lol.

 

[JoKr]

Seems that China's ban on Elephant Ivory, which they are REALLY serious about, led to a boom in demand for mammoth ivory, which resulted in a gold rush in Siberia for the stuff, down to using high pressure water to "mine" it out of the permafrost, which is already melting and starting to uncover more of it anyway. Which apparently has it's own environment impacts and unexpected costs.
You can Google "siberia mammoth ivory" and find a number of stories or articles about it. Here's one:

Siberia is exporting 100 tonnes of ivory a year — and it's not from elephants

As the permafrost melts in Siberia, the rush is on to exploit ivory from ancient giants trapped in the ice for thousands of years.

www.abc.net.au

For me personally, I always viewed knives with mammoth handles as out of my price range, so whether it is ethical, moral, or green is a moot point for me. I am too poor to exploit that particular scarce resource.

yes, and with climate change and earth warming it is much easier to dig the mammoth ivory.
we will have more and more mammoth ivory with progressive global warming in the next vears.
maybe mammoth ivory will get cheaper and cheaper.

 

[Jon0385]

There is red linen micarta and then there is everything else. I don’t prefer “exotic” covers, but there is no moral or ethical reason for it.

 

[Carboniferous]

''... fossilised mammoth ivory isn't fossilised its just really really old...its ivory...if it was fossil it would be stone...just to be pedantic.''

you are not pedantic, you are partly wrong!

fossilized means digged, excaved, exhumed.

not all fossiles are mineralized, some are, some are partely and some are not.
same with the mammoth ivory, some ivory is mineralized some partly, some are like elephant ivory.

Fossil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The article you linked gives a much more narrow definition than, "exhumed etc." Anything preserved through geological timescales will be altered. The type and degree of alteration does vary.

To bring knives into it...uhhh...they're nice materials for handles but often not that stable as far as I know.

 

[JoKr]

The article you linked gives a much more narrow definition than, "exhumed etc." Anything preserved through geological timescales will be altered. The type and degree of alteration does vary.

To bring knives into it...uhhh...they're nice materials for handles but often not that stable as far as I know.

fossil from Classical Latin fossilis, lit. 'obtained by digging'

 

[JoKr]

in Europe, where i am located, it is common to get a certification from your custom knife maker or the cutlery with your knife for the handle material, if it comes from an endangered species.
how is it in the USA?

 

[Jiki]

fossil from Classical Latin fossilis, lit. 'obtained by digging'

So if you find a mineralized bone from 20000 years ago laying on the ground laying on the ground is it not a fossil because you did not have yo dig for it?

 

[JoKr]

So if you find a mineralized bone from 20000 years ago laying on the ground laying on the ground is it not a fossil because you did not have yo dig for it?

here you can find all your smart questions answered...
you just have to read it carefuly...

Fossil - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taphonomy

 

[Sean Yaw]

Westinghouse antique ivory micarta is pretty endangered at this point...

Seriously though, I think that some of the exotic hardwoods (e.g., siamese rosewood) are gorgeous, but are ethically dubious if sourced from an unknown source. Ben Greenberg here on BF advertises his ethical sourcing, so it makes me more comfortable using some species when sourced from him.

 

[Carboniferous]

fossil from Classical Latin fossilis, lit. 'obtained by digging'

I hate to derail but the etymology of a word simply does not inform you about how a word is used, and how a word is used determines the meaning of the word. "Something obtained by digging" might have been what it meant in Latin but we do not speak Latin and that is not how the word is used in English.

 

[JoKr]

I hate to derail but the etymology of a word simply does not inform you about how a word is used, and how a word is used determines the meaning of the word. "Something obtained by digging" might have been what it meant in Latin but we do not speak Latin and that is not how the word is used in English.

oh i know, it was just an addition, thnx

 

[Hyesouljah]

Here in California I've always been required as a craftsman to use sheds for any antler projects. Had to stop using mammoth ivory and tooth on July 2016 to prevent elephants being poached. Using those fossilized materials was a big part of my business at 20 percent of the knives I made at that time used mammoth tooth or ivory. Honestly, I don't miss them now as they and the tooth in particular were a PITA to work with.

Folks don't realize the kind of elk we have here locally. I'm 6'3" to give ya an idea of the size of these sheds:

Different set, even bigger and heavier:

I’m a California native born and raised, I wish we had more deer and elk roaming these lands. I would absolutely love to harvest an Elk from California lands one day and have a freezer full of nutritious meat and a nice euro Mount to honor the animal I took. Did you find those sheds here in California? Awesome stuff

 

[Will Power]

I was under the impression that Mammoth/Mastodon Ivory was actually petrified and was no longer tooth but stone??

Fossilized....some might think that Traditionals were in that bracket just shows our long lineage

 

[Chief]

Will Power depends on how old the mammoth / mastodon ivory is and how it was preserved. Takes a long time for tooth to turn to stone. Have scraps of interior mammoth ivory that are like rocks, 100K years old or who knows, takes a great polish. Have mammoth ivory scraps that are newer, similar to elephant ivory, only the dentine portion is truly hard and the interior is soft. Both smell like tooth when cut, like getting a filling at the dentist. Hard to work with, cracks when hot as the moisture inside boils and has to escape somewhere. I like natural materials, warmer in hand.

 

[mbkr]

I avoid ivory. The ancient stuff is ok, but I don't want anything that might have come from an elephant. Other than that, I guess I don't have any strong aversion. There are plenty of attractive handle covers that come from sources that are plentiful and/or well managed. Buck's use of ebony is a good example of responsibly sourced material.

 

[Elgatodeacero]

I really like natural materials, whether animal or vegetable.

Dont forget that many of the most popular wood materials are also endangered.

I dont think anyone wants to kill the last Who in Whoville for knife covers. We need a balance where locals who protect the environments where these things come from are incentivized to be good stewards.

 

[afishhunter]

Protect truly endangered species? Heck yes!
(IMBHO the only possible exception: legless lizards.)

I don't believe I'm part of the problem.
I can't afford exotic handle materials, be it wood, natural fall antler, or farm/ranch raised beefalo or Indian Water Buffalo horn, or elephant, whale, warthog ivory, let alone mammoth ivory and teeth.

I have no issues against faux antler, horn, Ivory, teeth, claws, etc, or bone jigged/carved to look like antler or horn.

If Giraffe are truly endangered, by all means do what is possible to protect them.

I haven't seen Giraffe bone as a option for a knife handle. Is it even used by cutlery companies?
I can see a local blacksmith or knife maker using it though; use what's at hand.

JoKr
What does CITES propose to stop the tribes who hunt the Giraffe (among other things, like Elephant for food, and utilize the leather, bones and other parts? ("problem" elephants are killed with the government's blessings to protect their crops. They also provide food.)
One Giraffe or elephant could/can feed the entire tribe/village for several days.
What does CITES propose to combat the military troops on national defense or anti poacher duty, and anti-poaching units set loose in the wilds without pay or food, who wind up poaching for food?

 

[JoKr]

JoKr
What does CITES propose to stop the tribes who hunt the Giraffe (among other things, like Elephant for food, and utilize the leather, bones and other parts? ("problem" elephants are killed with the government's blessings to protect their crops. They also provide food.)
One Giraffe or elephant could/can feed the entire tribe/village for several days.
What does CITES propose to combat the military troops on national defense or anti poacher duty, and anti-poaching units set loose in the wilds without pay or food, who wind up poaching for food?

all what i know is:
we don't know all the basics of laws and regulations, but you should still stick to them, because we as individuals are not omniscient but some of us think they know everything better.
some dont even care about rules, laws amd regulations.

i love Giraffe Bone covers on knife handles, but i stopped buying when i got aware of the CITES listing!
I NO LONGER BUY GIRAFFE BONE COVERED KNIVES WITHOUT A CERTIFICATION from November 2019 or later.