Who else uses a scythe?

[FortyTwoBlades]

Recently completed another short article.

Dispelling the Myths of the American Scythe: An Open Response to Botan Anderson's "A Tale of Two Scythes"

The original article to which this writing refers can be found HERE.

 

[Skiv]

Thanks for that link! I enjoyed reading your exposition, and clearly you've put in a lot of time thinking about it. I use three patterns of snath, myself: "Austrian" (in quotes because it's actually Canadian), "American" (again, made in Canada), and a home-made Eastern European style straight snath. I have blades that are the heavier American style as well as several European blades of varying quality.

I find myself using the "American" snath more when I'm working in tight quarters either mowing in the orchard between the trees or working along the weedy narrow margins of the terraces on our hillside farm. The straight snath works well for me when I'm mowing long stretches of weedy grass along the road margins or in the ditch fronting the property. The "Austrian" snath, with a vintage European blade honed finely enough to split an infinitive, is pure pleasure for barefoot mowing on the lawn and is also very comfortable to use when harvesting grain with a removable cradle.

My problem with the "American" snath is that even with a fairly steep tang angle I am still tall enough that the top nib is too low for me on flat ground. Hence why I tend to use it in hilly or rough terrrain more than mowing on the flat.

I'm still an apprentice. Likely I will be for life -- but that's OK. We're all working toward mastery.

The main thing is, though: It's really great to be in a group that pays attention to the tools they use! Thanks again for that article.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Ooh! Do you have a photo of your Canadian "American" (hey, it's still North America, right? ) snath? The only company I've found mention of in my research has been the Dominion Snath Co., which seemed to have possibly had a familial connection to the Derby & Ball snath co. of Vermont. I've found anecdotal reference to there being around 4 different makers in Canada at one point or another, though no names other than Dominion.

Out of curiosity, how tall are you? While not optimal, it's possible to broaden your swath with a lower stance. The back remains straight, and you assume a position almost like sitting on a broad-backed horse. "Widen the feet and drop your seat!"

And never stop learning. It's impossible to be truly perfect at anything--even if you're the best in the world you can always improve! :thumbup:

 

[scotchleaf]

Did you get it at Liberty Tool? That is a great store. Where in Maine do you live?

 

[Square_peg]

Very well written. A few illustrations would add to it.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Did you get it at Liberty Tool? That is a great store. Where in Maine do you live?

I picked up my very first scythe from the Tool Barn, but I usually only find blades there that I consider purchase worthy, namely because critically damaged snaths are much easier to find than ones in good shape.

Very well written. A few illustrations would add to it.

I do plan on updating it with images at a later date. Any thoughts on those you would find the most useful?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As a fun exercise I went through a scan of a 1931 "Logan-Gregg Hardware Co." catalog and ran the prices through an online utility that converts historical prices into values for other years. Converting to 2012 dollars using the "real value" method, here are the prices they had on various items. The catalog lists price per dozen, but these are all converted to unit prices:

TrueTemper Kelly Works "Briar Edge" blades
Grass Blade, length 28-34" --$60.50
Weed Blade, length 26-28" --$64.50
Bush Blade, length 18-22" --$64.50

North Wayne Tool Co. "Little Giant" blades
Grass Blade, length 28-34" --$72.60
Weed Blade, length 26-28" --$73.30
Bush Blade, length 18-22" --$73.30

"Austrian" Grass Blade
Length 30" --$68.60

"German" Grass Blade
Length 30" --$56.50

Sterling blades
Clipper Grass, lengths 28-34" --$80.70
Dutchman Grass, lengths 28-24" --$80.70
Clipper Grain Cradle, length 48" --$96.80

Snaths
Grain Cradle, 4 finger --$242.00
Derby & Ball No.50 Grass --$56.50
Derby & Ball 2-ring Bush --$64.50
Derby & Ball Straight Snath for Euro blades --$53.80

Other Misc. Items for Reference
Oswego 3-tine hay fork, 5'6" handle, capped ferrule --$56.50
NWT Co. "Blizzard" Hay Knife --$64.50
TrueTemper 3.5# Kelly Perfect single bit, HEAD ONLY --$67.20

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The manufacturer of the Sterling blades is unknown. I have a couple Clipper-marked grain cradle blades that have Emerson & Stevens stampings on them and the red paint that's described in catalogs. However, I can't find reference to the Sterling name in conjunction with E&S, and have seen Clipper as a brand attributed in period documents to Rixford. Rixford also used red paint on their scythes. How confusing!

 

[Skiv]

Grass Blade, length 28-34" --$60.50

Not too far off local prices. Garant blades tend to run around Cdn$ 70.00

Derby & Ball 2-ring Bush --$64.50
Derby & Ball Straight Snath for Euro blades --$53.80

On sober reflection the locally available "American" snath may in fact be American. No labels but one of the distributors seems to recall they come from down south. One of them will set you back about Cdn $90.00

TrueTemper 3.5# Kelly Perfect single bit, HEAD ONLY --$67.20

Well, you look at Council Tool and that ain't far off. "3.5# Jersey Classic w/36" straight handle" lists for US $66.25 on their website. Yer gettin' the handle for free.

I'm gonna guess some of the reason we pay higher prices now even after taking inflation into account is that the items are not as much in demand. Also, we've invented liability lawyers in the meantime. I communicated with Cameron Council about getting a couple heads sent up, and he can't because of the liability issues. He's got no problem with me cutting off his handle and making my own, but he has to ship the axe "complete."

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Not too far off local prices. Garant blades tend to run around Cdn$ 70.00

You mean grass blades? I would gladly pay $90-$120 for new production blades that were like REAL American pattern blades rather than looking like "American pattern blades made by a company that mostly makes Austrian blades". Even the vintage Austrian-made American pattern blades I've seen weren't of proper form. Swedish-made American pattern blades were oftentimes indistinguishable from domestically produced ones--they actually understood the blade style and did a great job emulating it. Banko was one of the larger exporters of American pattern blades, though theirs have a certain look to them that stands out at a distance once you know what you're looking at. The turn of the spine is fairly distinctive (similar to some Rixford blades) and the crest of the toe has a very pipe-backed appearance. Austrian-made blades, by contrast, only have the faintest shadow of a crest that you can barely make out even when looking for it, and that's if you're lucky. On the plus side, they're very thinly forged and light, but the profile, bead, rib, and shank could all use some heavy tweaking.

On sober reflection the locally available "American" snath may in fact be American. No labels but one of the distributors seems to recall they come from down south. One of them will set you back about Cdn $90.00

If it's newly/recently made then it's a Seymour for sure. If it's a wooden one then it's a model No. 1 They used to make a thicker bush snath called the No. 2 and it had a 4-hole plate rather than 3.

Some 1938 prices for Seymour's No. 30 and No. 125 grass and bush snaths (respectively) from their premium Ironclad series were $63.90 and $73.30

Well, you look at Council Tool and that ain't far off. "3.5# Jersey Classic w/36" straight handle" lists for US $66.25 on their website. Yer gettin' the handle for free.

I'm gonna guess some of the reason we pay higher prices now even after taking inflation into account is that the items are not as much in demand. Also, we've invented liability lawyers in the meantime. I communicated with Cameron Council about getting a couple heads sent up, and he can't because of the liability issues. He's got no problem with me cutting off his handle and making my own, but he has to ship the axe "complete."

Yup--reduced competition and demand for high-end product, but the handle and the hafting process still cost money. It'd be cheaper both in terms of shipping and raw material/labor costs just to leave the handles off. I think it's not liability that's the reason why he couldn't send you just a head--rather it's too costly in terms of time (it adds up fast) to entertain such a request due to the way the product passes through the assembly stages. They'd have to stop the whole operation just to grab a couple of heads for you, so you'd be temporarily halting their entire production stream.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I recently purchased a Grizzly G1036 "Viking Grinder" water cooled 10" grindstone and it's done a beautiful job thinning the edges on my blades. Sharpened up a 48" grain cradle blade, adjusted the set of the tang to square (it was a full mulay set, which is useless unless hafted on a Dutch bend or a cradle snath because of the far-too-open hang) and stuck it on a vintage Seymour SN-8 aluminum grass snath and mowed the lawn. Holy crap--what a swath! What low, even stubble! It almost looks like someone used a mechanized mower to do the work. A grain cradle blade is not for the inexperienced or faint of heart, but with a fresh hollow-ground edge from the wet grinder it was just unstoppable!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Here's a pic of the unit. This is mowing bliss right here.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Working on restoring a Sta-Tite No.50 I.B.S. (Improved Back Saver) snath. The heel plate is riveted, so I had to drill it out. I've got some fresh solid rivets on their way to me now for the reinstallation. This piece didn't exhibit it, but I've seen ones where the hollow Back Saver wedge has become crushed from overzealous tightening. Figured there was an easy fix for that. Don't know why they didn't do this in the gosh-darn first place, Pardon the poorly lit cell phone pics.

The wedge itself adds about 11° of bend to the natural lift of the snath's neck.

 

[KB3AUM]

learned how to use one on the county road dept 25 years ago.and now I own an old beauty for quick projects around my property.just cleared some tall grass and brush from around a few apple trees.
may your blades never get rusty.

 

[Steve Tall]

learned how to use one on the county road dept 25 years ago...

Found this video posted at ScytheWorks, showing modern day municipal workers in Vevey, Switzerland, being trained to use scythes for their jobs:

[video=youtube_share;jpy5CcQDM2o]http://youtu.be/jpy5CcQDM2o[/video]

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Good stuff! I've considered trying to do some workshops at the University of Maine for their agricultural program. I know they have some plants that they want to preserve but still be able to keep the area fairly clear.

Here are some photos of notables from my collection that I finally got 'round to snapping today. More will be forthcoming soon--I've been busy acquiring stuff so I have plenty to share.

First up are a couple of grass hooks, starting with a NWT Co. "Lawn Razor". Some of you may recognize this from the catalog I posted a scan of (No. 117) This rather unusual tool holds a row of 9 double edged razor blades in a special clamp, the rationale being that a razor that is too dull for the face is still well more than sharp enough for the lawn!

Next is a new old stock Village Blacksmith grass hook. Not a particularly special model, but its condition is phenomenal, including the packaging.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Now for some snaths. This one is a vintage homemade one, and seems to be in a style similar to some Swedish types. However, the dang thing is CHUNKY! Makes me wonder why it was left so thick--it's like swinging a tree.

This is a more conventional one. My latest restoration-in-progress: a Sta-Tite No.50-I.B.S. (Improved Back Saver.) Rather than going crazy with this one I'm going to treat it like unfinished furniture. It's shaved down, rough sanded, hardware cleaned and clear coated (still need to do the nibs), but the end purchaser can finish it however they'd like. The present surface is good for priming and painting, or it can be sanded smoother and oiled or clear coated. Because Sta-Tite riveted most of their heel plates I had to drill the rivet out, and I have rivets on the way that'll serve as excellent replacements. Also installed the filler wedge I fashioned. There was the faintest beginning of a hairline split in the end grain from a previous owner cranking down on the loop bolt so I let some wood glue work its way down into the cracks and drove a corrugated fastener into the end to stave off any further splitting. I've used that method with great success on other snaths, including my Derby & Ball field-mowing unit. Driving them properly can be tricky, but with some extra sharpening of the fastener's bevel and careful taps of the hammer the results are quite nice.

"dry weight" of the snath alone (as seen in this first image) was almost exactly 2lbs 6oz.

 

[lmalterna]

My humble three...two being recent acquisitions. My own experience with using scythes revolved around cleaning up around fence rows, barns and creeks where the tractor sickle bar could not safely reach.
Bill

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Nice trio! In addition to the No.50-I.B.S., that one with the ring is also a Sta-Tite. An older one, too, by my guesses (I have one like that in the collection.) The later ones switched to the I.B.S. plate and didn't have a collar--the trough for the set screw and the heel plate are separate pieces and held on by a rivet at each end and passing through its mate on the opposite face. The third snath you have there is a Seymour, but my I can't quite tell if it's an SN-1 or an SN-2. If there's a fourth hole in the heel plate (directly above the one the tang is presently in) then it's an SN-2. The neck looks VERY chunky even for an SN-1, which is what makes me curious. The SN-2 was a bush model while the SN-1 was/is a grass snath (though I consider it too heavy in general. I'd shave that puppy down unless you plan on using it for heavy work that would damage a slimmer snath.)

Installed a fresh rivet on the No.50-I.B.S. that I was working on. Here's how it turned out!

 

[Sparrow92]

The following is from Peter Vido:

If it's newly/recently made then it's a Seymour for sure.

Are you, Benjamin, aware that the American style of blades and snaths have also been imported (by Mibro Group) into Canada from Slovenia for a long time? Secondly, do you believe that something actually made in USA -- like for instance a true Seymour-made product (though most of the stuff they sell under that pretence has instead been commissioned by them to be made by someone else 'to their specifications') -- would not advertise that fact and, especially nowadays, possibly prefixing it with that patriotic "Proudly Made in USA"?

The Mibro Group seems more active in the Western Canada's market, while Garant's (the other major, and older tool importer) dominant territory is the East (with Ontario as the transition zone). Garant, I think, obtains all their scythe blades from Austria, and Mibro from Slovenia. The latter also sells some European style blades. (I had corresponded with Mibro Group about 15 years ago, and also visited the factory in Slovenia numerous times).

Given the above, my guess is that Skiv's "American" snath was made in Slovenia, (and my opinion stands that -- if ergonomy really mattered -- it still is a 'piece of shit') . In time the ever-knowledge-seeking Skiv will likely conclude the same, and consequently hang his "American" scythe upon a wall as a testimony to the "bad old times of snath design".

How much do you want to bet? (However, on the continuation of your own passion in favour of the USA-made blades and snaths, I'm NOT making any bets...

-Peter