Who else uses a scythe?

[FortyTwoBlades]

Just for a little more contextual cost conversion, their 90lb anvil is priced at $5.55, which would be $1,130.00 today.

 

[Raymond1000]

That is just fascinating. I checked my other Seymour 'Austria' blade and that too had these markings, but only on the heal. On all of my blades
the heal is much sharper, maybe preserving a trace of the standard that the old farmers were able to reach on the rest of the blade that I have
to struggle to reach. I wonder what the stories of these blades might be. It seems they are essentially new old stock. I can imagine the old folks
after the harvest, feeling too worn out to fight with the old blade on the grindstone yet again and flush with cash after the harvest giving in and
getting a new blade from town. And like guys who retire or lose a spouse, not making it to the next harvest.
Here is a page from the 1897 Sears Catalogue that gives a nice sense of the relative prices of things:
http://books.google.com/books?id=pavHOWOWKEEC&pg=PA64#v=onepage&q&f=false
Not that they seemed to call just the blade a scythe. Note also how much more expensive a lawn mower
was, and how much decoration and page space they got. 50c for a top end grass blade, 55c for a grass snath,
versus $2.35 for an entry level lawn mower, almost the same price as grain cradle.

In my struggle to get to and keep a sharp edge:
I was trying to use a cup to maintain my edges. A wind storm blew it over. Now I have this that perfectly and safely fits my thumb:

It takes off metal, but I don't know if it is enough surface to be effective.

Great link, Panyo.

If I’m correctly reading the illustration of the grain cradle, it shows the arrangement I had always pictured. The cradle lying horizontal and parallel to the scythe blade. Am I misinterpreting the drawing? Or were there different arrangements of cradles for different purposes?

The catalog shows an example of The Historian’s Nightmare. “The old well known lightning pattern hay knife, so well known an illustration is all that is necessary to describe it.”

It’s not well known by me. I’m willing to bet it had something to do with making hay. Beyond that….does anybody have a clue how and why the lightning hay knife it was used?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Great link, Panyo.

If I’m correctly reading the illustration of the grain cradle, it shows the arrangement I had always pictured. The cradle lying horizontal and parallel to the scythe blade. Am I misinterpreting the drawing? Or were there different arrangements of cradles for different purposes?

The catalog shows an example of The Historian’s Nightmare. “The old well known lightning pattern hay knife, so well known an illustration is all that is necessary to describe it.”

It’s not well known by me. I’m willing to bet it had something to do with making hay. Beyond that….does anybody have a clue how and why the lightning hay knife it was used?

Hay knives were used for cutting portions of hay from a stack. I use one for portioning round bales (they're cheaper than square bales by a lot)

[video=youtube;0wg62i6RP4A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wg62i6RP4A[/video]

 

[panyo]

Great link, Panyo.

If I’m correctly reading the illustration of the grain cradle, it shows the arrangement I had always pictured. The cradle lying horizontal and parallel to the scythe blade. Am I misinterpreting the drawing? Or were there different arrangements of cradles for different purposes?

The catalog shows an example of The Historian’s Nightmare. “The old well known lightning pattern hay knife, so well known an illustration is all that is necessary to describe it.”

It’s not well known by me. I’m willing to bet it had something to do with making hay. Beyond that….does anybody have a clue how and why the lightning hay knife it was used?

Thanks Raymond.
I can tell you that all the grain cradles I have seen in the last few months of looking have been of this orientation. I have seen 3, though I don't
think of this fancy snath bend. I have a running count of things seen in another post. Since then, I had seen 10 more scythes, 2 with back saver
hardware, 1 grain cradle, 3 brush blades 5 grass blades, 1 English blade with set tang and web bending up like a little like a European blade.

I have seen a fair number of hay knives, and they are only sharp on the distal side of the teeth, and not very sharp at that.
I have no idea how they work.

FortyTwoBlades: your conversions amaze!
PS:
And here is a video answering the lightning hay knife question:
[video=youtube_share;0wg62i6RP4A]http://youtu.be/0wg62i6RP4A[/video]

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Hay knives were used hard, hence the commonly dull state. I hollow ground the teeth on mine on my water cooled slow grinding wheel and performance jumped big time. Given that grinding stones were once common equipment for the agriculturalist this is how they were intended to be ground.

In terms of orientation, that vertical stance was just one way of displaying the tool and has nothing to do with its use--one may find many example of the cradle displayed horizontally in advertisements, and many photos of them in use. A quick google search yielded these:

 

[Raymond1000]

Hay knives were used for cutting portions of hay from a stack. I use one for portioning round bales (they're cheaper than square bales by a lot)

[video=youtube;0wg62i6RP4A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wg62i6RP4A[/video]

What a snickersnee! Put the right handle on it and The Mikado’s Ko-Ko could use it.

I have a little list,
They never will be missed.

What was it used for? I though bailing hay only got going on American farms in the nineteen thirties. I certainly hefted enough bales when I was a youngster.

Given the date of the catalogue, there must have been some sort of mechanized straw compacting going on earlier.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As mentioned, it was used for cutting portions from a stack. Once hay settles you can't get it out any other way without disturbing the whole stack and exposing it to the elements, risking spoilage. Here's a vintage trade card that shows the proper use of one.

and an ad describing its various uses:

 

[Raymond1000]

As mentioned, it was used for cutting portions from a stack. Once hay settles you can't get it out any other way without disturbing the whole stack and exposing it to the elements, risking spoilage. Here's a vintage trade card that shows the proper use of one.

and an ad describing its various uses:

Makes sense, Forty Two. Thanks.

When I saw the vertically mounted cradles in use in that Nepal video, that made sense. Stop your cut at grain’s edge and the stalks all fall into the windrow you’re making. It looks efficient and doesn’t ask for any extra effort—beyond the effort of swinging a hay-heavy scythe.

How did it work with a horizontal cradle? It seems like you’d have to lift the scythe to dump your cut each time. Which seems like an extra dollop of hard work after each cut. Or am I missing something?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

No no no-- the cradle is not used with the plane created by the fingers running parallel to the ground-- the support post stands vertically. The blade runs roughly parallel to the ground and the fingers of the cradle float above it in a verti.cal stack

 

[Raymond1000]

No no no-- the cradle is not used with the plane created by the fingers running parallel to the ground-- the support post stands vertically. The blade runs roughly parallel to the ground and the fingers of the cradle float above it in a verti.cal stack

Thanks. That answers the question that’s been confusing me for, well…for years. :thumbup:

Not that it was ever a big issue in my life. It’s just that I was never sure how those cradles—as I’d pictured them on the scythe—would actually work.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The snath of the damaged cradle I own is basically like a regular scythe snath but with a little extension of the wood at the end for the support post to mount. While some cradles had their own crazy shapes, many were pretty much a regular scythe with a cradle and cradle blade slapped on it, with only minor changes to the base product to make it all possible.

 

[Cub Creek Forge]

The latest acquisition...

Instead of one curve from beard to tip, there is a secondary curve about 4" long near the tip. Is that normal, or where someone ground out a problem?

Another question... in the center of this pic there's a couple of dinks in the edge. Do you sweat something this small, or just whet through it and don't worry about it?

a little closer...

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Oh nice--the tang on that one is properly pitched! :thumbup:

That secondary curve likely comes from the toe of the blade having become dulled more frequently/rapidly that the rest of the blade (thanks to it being the first part of the blade to encounter problematic obstructions like hillocks, rocks, fence wires, etc) and probably got ground down more in repair of that dulling than the rest of the blade. Preferably one would use the geometry of the curve at that point and see how it could be smoothly blended back into the arc of the rest of the blade. See what "bumps" lie between the curve at the tip and the main length of the edge and grind them down so you have a nice continuous and uninterrupted arc. The region that was "excavated" will then need to be ground thin again and honed.

As far as the nicks go, those are little ones. Don't worry about them until you go to refresh your edge on the grindstone or 1" belt sander (but the grindstone is vastly preferred)

 

[Cub Creek Forge]

Oh nice--the tang on that one is properly pitched! :thumbup:

That secondary curve likely comes from the toe of the blade having become dulled more frequently/rapidly that the rest of the blade (thanks to it being the first part of the blade to encounter problematic obstructions like hillocks, rocks, fence wires, etc) and probably got ground down more in repair of that dulling than the rest of the blade. Preferably one would use the geometry of the curve at that point and see how it could be smoothly blended back into the arc of the rest of the blade. See what "bumps" lie between the curve at the tip and the main length of the edge and grind them down so you have a nice continuous and uninterrupted arc. The region that was "excavated" will then need to be ground thin again and honed.

As far as the nicks go, those are little ones. Don't worry about them until you go to refresh your edge on the grindstone or 1" belt sander (but the grindstone is vastly preferred)

Thanks! Man, I 'd love to get one of those grizzlys... someday . I hit a finishing nail working with my best plane yesterday, maybe if I dull up a few more things I can convince the missus that it's a necessity!

That Briar Edge is just sick nasty on my broomstraw... I cant wait 'til May!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Like I said, the Briar Edge blades are nice in that they're abundantly found, good hard steel/heat treatment, and the overall form and balance of them is good. They were "cheap" blades from what I can gather and the surface left from forging is ROUGH with lots of variation piece to piece, but I haven't seen one yet that didn't cut like a dream--even ones that had been beaten to hell and needed a lot of refurbishing.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Here's the start of an experiment in wildwood snaths following American patterning. The sapling was flexed and tied (with considerable effort) while green and allowed to dry for a year, the tension having been increased once during that period. The desired compounding of rising and lateral curves will be attained through proper orientation of the piece. Russian style withies will be used as stand-ins for manufactured nibs, and a vintage American pattern scythe ring used and secured with a wooden wedge. Not sure when I'll get to doing all of that, but here it is in its present state.

 

[Cub Creek Forge]

Looks like a longbow!

Is that cherry?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Just birch. Not an ideal choice, but pretty much everything on my property is birch so I don't have much option.

 

[panyo]

I am looking at a Craftsman snath with a long, light, rusted but not pitted blade that is
used but razor sharp. The snath is also in good shape with aluminum nib blocks
and nibs that adjust ok. It looks like a notch down in quality from my Seymour #1,
with the same metal cap that would make transplanting the back saver hardware
problematic. The wood is not weathered but the finish is not great and the grain
is slightly split in spots. I think the model might be 7780, but it looks like a grass snath.

How far wrong could I go for $20? I am starting to accumulate extra not-quite right
scythe hardware. I am missing a back saver or a grass snath with 4 hole hardware like
by brush snath so I can get the proper set without moving into metal-working gear.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As you may be aware, Sears themselves did not manufacture the Craftsman line themselves but rather contracted private label work through various sources. Their blades, for instance, were made by Banko of Sweden and I own a few "new old stock" blades of theirs. The snath sounds like it was just a rebranded Seymour No.1 and the quality of them varied example to example as well as over time in general. The "split grain" you're seeing may be delamination marks from bending. The bad practice was sometimes done of spot-sanding these marks to remove them rather than either rejecting the snath, leaving it intact with the blemish, or properly sanding it from all sides and down its length to preserve proper round cross section and smooth taper. There's not really anything wrong with the hardware of the No.1 snath, even though it's pretty simplistic. The Back Saver hardware may be nicer, but most blades still need SOME pitch to the tang added even with it so it's not like you're saving yourself the necessity of properly setting the tang angle. You don't really need metalworking gear per se. A Bernzomatic MAP gas torch from the hardware store, a well-secured vise, a length of pipe, and a raw potato are all you need. There's better gear for the task, for sure, but they'll do the trick. Just be sure to clamp in the vise in such a way that the web of the blade isn't strained during bending and that you don't get impatient with the torch--you want the tang at least a dull red before attempting to bend, and preferably cherry red or orange. Then allow to air-cool.