Who else uses a scythe?

BG_Farmer said:
42,
As I said, your design looks really good. The bead will be OK, esp. if it allows thinner material. I'm sure you thought about it, but maybe they could put some halfway pitch into the tang. My thinking is that a FEW degrees would help everybody and in combination with the angle built into the snath would likely suffice in many applications. For example, I like the edge a little more upward than is optimal for lawn mowing.

Also, I've become a big fan of crown, especially in suboptimal terrain. Are you thinking about spec'g any amount of crown, and/or would the heat treat allow the user to add some? I'm not sure my S'fux grass blade can be crowned without damage.

As always, good work. Nobody has done more than you have to bring this style of scythe back.
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Yes--a certain amount of crown would be spec'd. The tang angulation matter is a little more problematic, though, as their different snaths have different amounts of lift in the neck and it's better to err on the lay of the blade being to upward than too downward. Current blades are of good lightness so I'd sped them at equal thickness to the presently produced ones.
 
Hi BG_Farmer, 42, G-Pig, Steve and all who have given me much to think about in this thread.

But, as is usually the case, I had to stop thinking and start doing. A confused mind was getting me nowhere, and the darn 6 foot dry weeds were still staring at me.

I was picking up chicken feed and saw that they had a Seymour #1 snath and the big, thick Seymour brush blade. I own them both now. The price was very fair, and there wasn't any shipping and handling, plus the reward was immediate: my own scythe, however poor it may turn out to be. I can learn on it. That's what I've been doing since I last posted here.

So go easy on me, because I'm sure I'm making mistakes. I put the blade tang in the middle hole for my dry 1/4 inch thick weeds. I took off both nibs using my channel locks and an old towel to protect the wood, then oiled the screw and bolt. I had to slide both nibs down a couple inches, and I'm still fiddling with them to get the feel right. But at least I could get the nibs to move.

Sharpening. Well, I have a mill file I usually use, one side single cut, the other double. I did my best to put a low secondary bevel just on the side of the scythe that has the primary bevel. The bottom side is flat. I started with the double cut side of the file, but pretty briefly as I could see it was removing material quickly, so switched to the other side.

Question: when using the file, am I supposed to be pushing *toward* the cutting edge or pulling away from it, like you do when honing a knife, for example? I've got a couple whetstones coming today, so clearly have not been able to use them while mowing. Nevertheless, I've spent several surprisingly pleasant hours taking down some weeds that at least to me, are impressive.

Yesterday I started in on the big blackberry canes. I took off the tops with loppers first because they are at least 7 or 8 feet tall, and ready for attack on anyone who dares to cut them off at the bottom. I had some success, but not like with the smaller dry weeds. These canes are up to 1.75 inches in diameter, with most smaller, but few less than a half inch.

Should I shift the peg on the tang to the far right hole for the heavy blackberry canes? I am cutting the thick blackberries with somewhat of an upward stroke, but I still can't take more than about two at a time. Is this normal for stuff that's this big, or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks for any thoughts on these matters.
 
Oh, and kind of a PS: I have a pile of about 5 possible wild wood snaths at the house now. It seems to grow by one or two every day or so! I'm surrounded with black locust, maple, oak, shag bark hickory, and some cherry. These possible snaths were all downed wood, so I'm not sure what wood they are. Another project there, too!
 
Congrats on the new scythe! As far as sharpening with a file goes, here's a quick little clip that addresses that. :)

[video=youtube;XjLK6AiprXA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjLK6AiprXA&feature=youtu.be[/video]

For taking out thick stuff it's normal to take shorter strokes. As your technique improves you'll be able to take more and more at a time, but really thick plants are often targeted singly.

With the Seymour snath don't be afraid to take a LOT of wood off the bottom 1/3 of it! They really leave tons of material there to the point of making it really heavy. They may call it a grass snath but it's well in excess of what I use for bush work. The first 12" will have the fastest taper, after which a smooth continuous taper to the end is preferred. A spokeshave and concave cabinet scraper will be your friend there.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Congrats on the new scythe! As far as sharpening with a file goes, here's a quick little clip that addresses that. :)
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I've watched this a few times, so thanks for it. But what I don't understand from watching it is that when you first do the stroke with your file you are moving toward the blade. Then, you are discussing the fact there isn't enough room, so you sort of slide across the blade; I think I followed that. But where I'm lost is: Am I *trying* to avoid pulling the file down, away from the blade? Is that why you are moving the file sideways? I have tried moving the file kind of down, away from the blade edge but on a careful angle, while moving somewhat across the edge to be worked on, then lifting the file and backing up a bit, and doing it again, finally working across the complete edge of the scythe.

I think I saw this motion I am describing (badly) on a youtube scythe video a while ago, but after reading this thread I'm unsure. Maybe it doesn't matter?

FortyTwoBlades said:
For taking out thick stuff it's normal to take shorter strokes. As your technique improves you'll be able to take more and more at a time, but really thick plants are often targeted singly.
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Okay; thanks for the reassurance. That stuff is tough! Glad it isn't just me. For now, one at a time it is.

FortyTwoBlades said:
With the Seymour snath don't be afraid to take a LOT of wood off the bottom 1/3 of it! They really leave tons of material there to the point of making it really heavy. They may call it a grass snath but it's well in excess of what I use for bush work. The first 12" will have the fastest taper, after which a smooth continuous taper to the end is preferred. A spokeshave and concave cabinet scraper will be your friend there.
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Yes, that bottom part of the snath is huge! and the blade itself weighs close to 2 pounds. Hadn't thought to modify the snath other than adjusting the nibs. I'll give it some thought. This is where my home-brewed snaths might be fun. They'll probably feel like a feather if I don't shave the Seymour #1 down. :rolleyes:
 
blackbrit said:
I've watched this a few times, so thanks for it. But what I don't understand from watching it is that when you first do the stroke with your file you are moving toward the blade. Then, you are discussing the fact there isn't enough room, so you sort of slide across the blade; I think I followed that. But where I'm lost is: Am I *trying* to avoid pulling the file down, away from the blade? Is that why you are moving the file sideways? I have tried moving the file kind of down, away from the blade edge but on a careful angle, while moving somewhat across the edge to be worked on, then lifting the file and backing up a bit, and doing it again, finally working across the complete edge of the scythe.

I think I saw this motion I am describing (badly) on a youtube scythe video a while ago, but after reading this thread I'm unsure. Maybe it doesn't matter?
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When draw filing the file is moving perpendicular to the metal--not backwards. If you draw backwards you don't do anything other than blunt the file teeth. :)

Yes, that bottom part of the snath is huge! and the blade itself weighs close to 2 pounds. Hadn't thought to modify the snath other than adjusting the nibs. I'll give it some thought. This is where my home-brewed snaths might be fun. They'll probably feel like a feather if I don't shave the Seymour #1 down. :rolleyes:
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I'd start off by shaving down the Seymour. It's a very capable unit once the nibs are set right and the baseball bat of a neck is slimmed out. :thumbup:
 
Blackbrit,
Sounds like you hit the ground running. The setup you have should be about as robust as they come! It will take a while to get your setup tuned. I fiddled with the nibs constantly for weeks cutting hay when I started, but they haven't moved since I found the right spot.

With blackberry that big, one at a time is fine. You can try closing the hafting angle if even just for the big stuff. For me it is a personal/physical thing and the closed angle doesn't fit me or my stroke, but it may fit you to a "T" and definitely reduces the stress on blade and snath. Also, with a little practice, I bet you will be able to move between different types of strokes very easily. It may look easy in the videos, but it does take some practice.

I think the SN1 is light and gracile enough already, but I might be in the minority. At least finish the giant blackberry before you turn it into a toothpick :)!
 
I consider the top 2/3 of the SN-1 to be just about right (actually a little more off the top third than I'd go for) but the bottom third is just wayyyyy too much for me! :D That is the nice thing about it coming thick, though--if you really need it heavy you can leave it that way. Otherwise you can just shave it down to your preference.
 
For blackberries you're better off with a long machete, leather gloves and heavy cotton clothing. Create a sphere the reach of the machete. Cut the canes into 12"-18" pieces that fall harmlessly at your feet. Advance the sphere into the blackberry thicket. I like to start by hacking straight through the middle of the highest toughest part of the bramble. The rest crumbles in your wake. I've come to enjoy whacking blackberries.
 
Lots of different ways to tackle blackberries, though the best way often depends on how they're growing. I've taken out patches before using a scythe, various machetes, brush axes...each took a different approach. I think if I had a serious patch to clear today I'd probably go through in the method Square_peg describes with something like this first and then clear up the remaining stalks with the scythe. Another traditional tool is what, in English terminology, is called a "slasher" which is like a socket billhook or weed hook mounted on a long pole. Lets you really get in there without worrying about the prickers! :D
 
A Euro-scythe with a short blade (around 40cm) can work great for taking down those huge blackberry thickets here in the Northwest. The weight of the rig is low enough that the scythe can easily make cuts above head level, while keeping the thorns a good distance from one's body. Every so often, the accumulating pile of cut canes can be dragged out of the way by turning the scythe over and hooking the tangled pile with the blade.

The blade edge should be kept sharp, but not as thin nor as acute as blades used for cutting grass.
 
Even so, a scythe of any type isn't optimized for use that high, due to the tang angulation. I do think it'd be more ergonomic to use a slasher to knock the height down before removing the remainder with a scythe. I do often make cuts at waist height for very tall stuff, but would undoubtedly do the job faster and easier with a tool made for elevated cuts. Where those tools then fall short is in trimming the remaining stalk close to the ground.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Even so, a scythe of any type isn't optimized for use that high, due to the tang angulation...
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A scythe works like a charm for me in these blackberry thickets. The "tang angulation" results in an angled cut (preferable to perpendicular), and the exact angle is not critical. I think that a scythe slices better than a slasher, due to the orientation of the blade to the handle, and the slight pull on the cane as it cuts. Seems like the swing of a slasher would have more chop and less slice than a scythe swing.
 
A scythe will have more slicing action, but will not have as much tip velocity. Tip velocity is what gives peak performance in cutting lithe targets, and a slasher or long billhook will have that in spades. The hook cuts a little differently on slashers than the blade of a scythe--the body is what gathers the cut and the hook clinches it. This is essentially the reverse of what the scythe does. To specify the kind of slasher I mean, here's a photo.

20.jpg


That being said, that doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't cut blackberries with a scythe. Obviously that works for you, so that's what matters most! But longer weed/corn hooks or slashers are made for elevated cuts on those sorts of targets and will do an admirable job of it, as will long-handled billhooks when used toe-trailing. :)
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
A scythe will have more slicing action, but will not have as much tip velocity. Tip velocity is what gives peak performance in cutting lithe targets, and a slasher or long billhook will have that in spades...
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In actual use of the scythe for cutting blackberries, I find that the "tip velocity" theory is not applicable. The "lithe target" generally gets held in place during the cut, once the sharp edge touches the cane, because there is some tension on the cane. In other words, the blade starts to penetrate and the resulting slight pull on the cane is enough to keep the blade edge in contact while the cut is completed.

And this is accomplished with fairly low-velocity swings of the scythe (in contrast with how fast you'd have to swing a slasher to get that desired tip velocity).
 
I'm interested in how you're getting tension on the canes with overhead cuts with an angled tang? I don't know--maybe I'm just having a hard time envisioning what you're describing. Swinging a slasher is high tip velocity but the tool itself should be light, which combines with the length to get that speed. The same principle is applying with the slasher as with the scythe, but the higher velocity lessens how much energy is absorbed and wasted by the springy movement of the canes. A slasher can be used to take very large swaths in that sort of growth due to that speed and minimized energy loss. Again, remember that the heel of a slasher blade will be gathering the material and pulling it into the toe. The action not dissimilar from the slicing cut of a scythe but with a different orientation.

However, as I said, what matters most is that the work is accomplished in a way that works well for ya'.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I'm interested in how you're getting tension on the canes with overhead cuts with an angled tang? I don't know--maybe I'm just having a hard time envisioning what you're describing...
Click to expand...

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but here in the Pacific Northwest our blackberry thickets can be over 8-10 feet tall, with canes growing over each other. They grow high and arc back down toward the ground.

The overhead cuts would be on the canes that are heading down (toward me), so they are essentially hanging, not supported from the ground up. So the canes do get some tension while being cut.

I try to cut the canes long (preferably just at the base) for easy removal (instead of cutting into 1-2 foot pieces). The overhanging (or falling over) growth needs to be cut back, though, to reach the base where the canes go into the ground.
 
Steve Tall said:
I don't know about your neck of the woods, but here in the Pacific Northwest our blackberry thickets can be over 8-10 feet tall, with canes growing over each other. They grow high and arc back down toward the ground.

The overhead cuts would be on the canes that are heading down (toward me), so they are essentially hanging, not supported from the ground up. So the canes do get some tension while being cut.

I try to cut the canes long (preferably just at the base) for easy removal (instead of cutting into 1-2 foot pieces). The overhanging (or falling over) growth needs to be cut back, though, to reach the base where the canes go into the ground.
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Ohhhhhhh...yeah. They don't get that tall here. Head height at most, and not bending over (at least with that kind of elevation to them.) Makes perfect sense now. :D:thumbup:
 
I appreciate all the thinking here about approaches to the blackberries. I was raised in the Pacific NW, and still think of that in some ways as home.

What Steve describes is exactly what I have here in the Appalachian Mountains though. There are other blackberries on the property, more like the kind the old timers in the PNW call "wild" (very small berry, intense flavor, almost seedless, and to me, unmatched for pie baking.) This particular patch of canes is more like what I learned to call "Himalayan" as I was growing up, and which the "real" berry pickers never bothered to even touch. Bigger seeds, huge berries, and as Steve says, those super tall arching canes.

If I had a lighter rig I could definitely see myself taking off the downward arching tops of the canes with it. That's why I need to use the loppers for now, and then hit the base with the Seymour brush setup. I have been finding that gently seems to win the day over any aggressive action. The scythe seems to kind of catch on the cane, and then take it down. But one at a time. So that's how I'm doing it for now.

I'm continuing to really enjoy reading for your collective wisdom and thought processes. And my edge maintenance might be improving...:)
 
For reference you can take the snath down to 2lb 4oz or less, hardware included, and still have a very strong setup. :)
 
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