-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Who has Served?
- Thread starter Burchtree
- Start date
DEA, I don't know much about the Singaporean Army, but I'm not really that impressed with the Israeli Army. The nation of Israel is only a little over 50 years old, and it would'nt have lasted that long without the help of the USA. And already there is a movement against forced service in Israel.
MtMike, You're wrong. I made no slap at US vets prior to 1970, who the vast majority of which were NOT drafted.
It's always been true that the best warriors are those that want to be there and who want to fight.
Look at the best of the best like British SAS, US SEALs, US Special Forces, US Rangers, USMC Force Recon--these were not people who were forced to volunteer under threat of imprisonment.
You can force a person to wear the uniform but you cannot force him to be a warrior.
It's hard enough to take a civilian and turn him into a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, or Coastie. It's a long hard road to becoming a warrior, and that's when the person WANTS to be one.
Now, take a person who does'nt want to serve, a person who may even dispise and hate the military, and try to turn that person into a warrior. What you get is cannon fodder.
While combat teaches quickly, peacetime service is another story alltogether. It's not worth the time and money to train those who are almost certain to not reenlist. If you drafted a person today, during peacetime, he would only have to serve for two years.
Minus the 30 days per year of leave and you're down to 22 months of service. Minus Basic Training and you're down to about 20 months. Minus AIT and tech schools and you're down to about 18 to 12 months of service.
It costs alot of money to train a new recruit, and we should'nt waste that money of people who don't want to serve and will not reenlist.
I would support a draft 100% if the USA itself was being invaded. Every man and woman should defend their nation.
But the US military has'nt engaged another nation in combat, defending the the USA itself, since WWII.
Allen.
MtMike, You're wrong. I made no slap at US vets prior to 1970, who the vast majority of which were NOT drafted.
It's always been true that the best warriors are those that want to be there and who want to fight.
Look at the best of the best like British SAS, US SEALs, US Special Forces, US Rangers, USMC Force Recon--these were not people who were forced to volunteer under threat of imprisonment.
You can force a person to wear the uniform but you cannot force him to be a warrior.
It's hard enough to take a civilian and turn him into a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, or Coastie. It's a long hard road to becoming a warrior, and that's when the person WANTS to be one.
Now, take a person who does'nt want to serve, a person who may even dispise and hate the military, and try to turn that person into a warrior. What you get is cannon fodder.
While combat teaches quickly, peacetime service is another story alltogether. It's not worth the time and money to train those who are almost certain to not reenlist. If you drafted a person today, during peacetime, he would only have to serve for two years.
Minus the 30 days per year of leave and you're down to 22 months of service. Minus Basic Training and you're down to about 20 months. Minus AIT and tech schools and you're down to about 18 to 12 months of service.
It costs alot of money to train a new recruit, and we should'nt waste that money of people who don't want to serve and will not reenlist.
I would support a draft 100% if the USA itself was being invaded. Every man and woman should defend their nation.
But the US military has'nt engaged another nation in combat, defending the the USA itself, since WWII.
Allen.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 1999
- Messages
- 325
Allen -- your initial statement made it sound as though you had some fundamental knowledge of History. Now I understand more fully that you're nothing more than an isolationist, who would have benn happy to fight Hitler on the shores of New Jersey, or the Soviet Union at the base of the Washington Monument, or to pay $10 a gallon for Iraqi gasoline.
The majority of volunteers in the Armed Services prior to 1970 may or may not have served without a draft as a further incentive, but the fact of History is that the draft did exist, it was an incentive, and many, including myself, chose to volunteer instead of wait to be drafted. And some, including myself, chose to stay beyond the initial term of service.
All of the specialized warfare forces you mention are undeniably drawn from volunteers. But they existed long before the advent of the "all volunteer military". And they exist to support fellow warriors, not because they are the only true warriors.
Your understanding of military and international history and mine are very different. Want to compare experience and military backgrounds and see who has a better perspective?
Mike
The majority of volunteers in the Armed Services prior to 1970 may or may not have served without a draft as a further incentive, but the fact of History is that the draft did exist, it was an incentive, and many, including myself, chose to volunteer instead of wait to be drafted. And some, including myself, chose to stay beyond the initial term of service.
All of the specialized warfare forces you mention are undeniably drawn from volunteers. But they existed long before the advent of the "all volunteer military". And they exist to support fellow warriors, not because they are the only true warriors.
Your understanding of military and international history and mine are very different. Want to compare experience and military backgrounds and see who has a better perspective?
Mike
Arthur Washburn
Knifemaker and AMC Freak
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2000
- Messages
- 1,653
US NAVY 1981-1992.
MtMike, You must be a very special person indeed.
I, myself, cannot see in to the depths of anothers life and experience merely from two postings on a cyber-forum.
I sure hope you're using your powers for good and not evil.
I can accept that you see things differently than I do, but don't think for an instant that you know what I'm all about.
I'm not an isolationist. I think that if you willingly join the military then you are also, by default, agreeing to go to where ever your nation sends you. I willingly joined the Army and I did'nt bitch and moan about going to Korea or Iraq. In fact, it was a great experence on both accounts and I think it has made me a better man.
Having said that, I will re-state something I said earlier--maybe you missed it the first time.
Forced service is contrary to freedom.
As for that "wannabe" remark...
Did you read my initial post in this thread?
If you did then you would know that I spent six years in the US Army and I am a Gulf War vet. I never claimed to be anything more than that. So I think your "wannabe" statement was way out of line.
Or maybe you don't consider us Gulf War vets to be "real vets"?
Allen.
I, myself, cannot see in to the depths of anothers life and experience merely from two postings on a cyber-forum.
I sure hope you're using your powers for good and not evil.
I can accept that you see things differently than I do, but don't think for an instant that you know what I'm all about.
I'm not an isolationist. I think that if you willingly join the military then you are also, by default, agreeing to go to where ever your nation sends you. I willingly joined the Army and I did'nt bitch and moan about going to Korea or Iraq. In fact, it was a great experence on both accounts and I think it has made me a better man.
Having said that, I will re-state something I said earlier--maybe you missed it the first time.
Forced service is contrary to freedom.
As for that "wannabe" remark...
Did you read my initial post in this thread?
If you did then you would know that I spent six years in the US Army and I am a Gulf War vet. I never claimed to be anything more than that. So I think your "wannabe" statement was way out of line.
Or maybe you don't consider us Gulf War vets to be "real vets"?
Allen.
I served my country during Vietnam, Granada, Gulf 93 and currently by being an active pacifist and trying to emulate the teachings of Ghandi, King and Christ. There are many who serve this country by vocally and actively refusing to serve in the military or support our military excursions. America has had a strong proud tradition of pacifism from its inception. Quakers did not fight in the Revolutionary War.
If there were no soldiers would there still be war?
There is no stronger pacifist than a man who has seen combat.
If there were no soldiers would there still be war?
There is no stronger pacifist than a man who has seen combat.
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2002
- Messages
- 13
Israel Defense Forces 1987 - 1989
S. Geralnik
S. Geralnik
a223cat
Kuttin' Kitty!
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2002
- Messages
- 608
I was handed a draft card that said 1A on it and got a letter shortly after. My dad was AF and said volunteer now and get a choice. I volunteered and got USAF. Wether I was a 'poor warrior' or not is not your place to judge. I held one such drafted 'poor warriors' in my arms as he died on a flightline doing his job even during an attack. For him I would say screw you to hell.
USAF 70-82 Munitions for F-4 aircraft
RVN/Okinawa/worldwide afterwards
E-5 SSgt
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2001
- Messages
- 916