Who likes Chinese???

During the 1950's anything labeled as "made in Japan" was rightfully considered junk. They lost the war & it took them a long time to build an infrastructure & quality manufacturing/distribution methods. Well at some point they did & Japanese products today are among the highest quality in the world. For a long time all knives coming from China or Pakistan were junk. There has been a change in the last 2 years or so & there are a few companies like TwoSun that produce very good quality knives very inexpensively. You have to watch as the prices are all over the place, but if your patient you can get a decent frame lock flipper for $25. They still make a lot of junk, but they are starting to turn out some things that represent real value. Remember the Norinco 1911. When they 1st began shipping, people assumed they were junk & ignored them. It turned out they were very good guns & better then some that are selling now for 3 times the price. If a country can make atomic bombs, guns & Apple phones, there is no reason they can't produce a decent knife.
 
jbmonkey said:
buck has some high quality made in America at close to ganzo prices with proper heat treatment and quality checked steel. also a solid lifetime warranty that ganzo doesn't have. worth a look...
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I have to disagree with that.A fair amount of people carry on about that little bit of vertical play from Gerber's Plunge Lock.Yet I do recall people dropping $80-$100 (depending on the steel)on a Buck model that suffered identical vertical blade play issues from the Shift-Lock and the bolsters separating from liners constantly...it was called the Paradigm model.No jimping anywhere (beyond the flipper to engage the assisted opening function).Slick micarta scales didn't help it either.

Good Lord I remember the Buck Tempest/Sirus Series.The cam lock was sharp and dug into my thumb which also blocked a lot of grip.Aluminum knife with no jimping on the blade spine or anywhere else...not a safe design.The liner lock was really thin like a $5 gas station folder by Maxam.Those knives were minimal $50-$60 in just 420HC.

Mentioning warranties for a minute.There's also a lot of questioning if one pays for a knife from a brand that has a warranty.That question is 'are they paying for 1 knife or 2'?Schrade's 'Never Lose It' addition they added to their lifetime warranty.You turn in the documentation and happen to lose your knife Schrade would send a replacement of that model ONE TIME.Every slip was documented by the factory in print of the model # that the knife was packaged with so someone couldn't get say a 152OT as a replacement when on file it says they bought an 8OT.Not really a reason to send a slipjoint knife in under warranty and the companies had their bases covered on abusive use and not caring for carbon steel blades voiding the warranty in the disclaimer.A company might do something nice like replace your knife with a new one if the steel upgraded slightly over your old model or has reversible pocket clip design in it's current design while sending it in for repair.That's the question though 'did you already pay for that second knife to absorb the revenue loss the company would take with this so called warranty'?...a lot of people aren't thinking about that.
 
Frotier76 said:
I have to disagree with that.A fair amount of people carry on about that little bit of vertical play from Gerber's Plunge Lock.Yet I do recall people dropping $80-$100 (depending on the steel)on a Buck model that suffered identical vertical blade play issues from the Shift-Lock and the bolsters separating from liners constantly...it was called the Paradigm model.No jimping anywhere (beyond the flipper to engage the assisted opening function).Slick micarta scales didn't help it either.

Good Lord I remember the Buck Tempest/Sirus Series.The cam lock was sharp and dug into my thumb which also blocked a lot of grip.Aluminum knife with no jimping on the blade spine or anywhere else...not a safe design.The liner lock was really thin like a $5 gas station folder by Maxam.Those knives were minimal $50-$60 in just 420HC.

Mentioning warranties for a minute.There's also a lot of questioning if one pays for a knife from a brand that has a warranty.That question is 'are they paying for 1 knife or 2'?Schrade's 'Never Lose It' addition they added to their lifetime warranty.You turn in the documentation and happen to lose your knife Schrade would send a replacement of that model ONE TIME.Every slip was documented by the factory in print of the model # that the knife was packaged with so someone couldn't get say a 152OT as a replacement when on file it says they bought an 8OT.Not really a reason to send a slipjoint knife in under warranty and the companies had their bases covered on abusive use and not caring for carbon steel blades voiding the warranty in the disclaimer.A company might do something nice like replace your knife with a new one if the steel upgraded slightly over your old model or has reversible pocket clip design in it's current design while sending it in for repair.That's the question though 'did you already pay for that second knife to absorb the revenue loss the company would take with this so called warranty'?...a lot of people aren't thinking about that.
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? huh?

youre comparing not ganzo cheap type bucks.....I mentioned in my post close to ganzo cheap such as the new 110lt which is around low 20 bucks and made in america.

their warranty is solid....knife fails send it in they'll fix or send you a new one. I stand by my post and what I said. I'm not following your Gerber, Schrade, and much pricier buck complaints that isn't what my post was about?
 
I like how you say 'the new 110lt' (laughing).Yeah full-size zytel scaled lockbacks have been around since the 1980's.Not exactly groundbreaking idea but if you want to get technical they made a 446 Goliath,486 Large Folding Max,and the 110 Ecolite in paperstone scales in 2011/2012.Sorry I'm not enthralled by the cue of the commercial here.

Where Ganzo fits in is if they had a warranty...they'd cost more.Gerber has a warranty which is why they cost more even if they use a lower carbon grade of stainless steel than Ganzo.Beyond that the whole topic of fit and finish between USA and China made is pretty debatable considering how back and forth pro and anti China made in mass production can argue.A Gerber Remix minus the warranty?probably $12-$15.Your 'new' 110LT probably $10 minus the warranty considering the lack of materials and workmanship they take to build.
 
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Frotier76 said:
I like how you say 'the new 110lt' (laughing).Yeah full-size zytel scaled lockbacks have been around since the 1980's.Not exactly groundbreaking idea but if you want to get technical they made a 446 Goliath,486 Large Folding Max,and the 110 Ecolite in paperstone scales in 2011/2012.Sorry I'm not enthralled by the cue of the commercial here.

Where Ganzo fits in is if they had a warranty...they'd cost more.Gerber has a warranty which is why they cost more even if they use an inferior steel.Beyond that the whole topic of fit and finish between USA and China made is pretty debatable considering how back and forth pro and anti China made in mass production can argue.Being that warranty makes the obvious price increase more so than labor standards it makes people question how much a knife really costs minus the use of a warranty.
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yeah I picked a current knife. easy to get. could have picked a bantam that are low $20s. also could have picked a 4xx series....but they are not currently made. you are still missing the points I made. it's about low cost quality made vs. a junk mystery steel and heat treatment ganzo to help that fella see more options at lower costs. which is what I wrote about originally and still am. you are off on something else. . i'm still not following you.

youre arguing things I am not. so be it.......
 
Frotier76 said:
Well everybody's got their own little niche of why they like China made.Not to overlook other's opinions of the nicer companies but I like some stuff by Gerber.I'll tell you why...

*They've made some pretty comfortable and functional full-tang fixed blades for camping/hiking/hunting use.The Profile and Big Rock were great performers.The Metolius was a wicked skinning knife,Jeff Freeman did a bang up job designing that knife.

*The mass production stuff made in the USA by Buck and Kershaw...very little that I'm drawn to.I could pick maybe 2 of each of those brand's modern folders and say 'meh,I could deal with it if I had to use it'.I could probably pick out 6 Gerber's from China still made today that I'd rather carry.

*Very mixed feelings from people about Gerber folder with nylon blade washers.Very true...oiling and some break in time.But bronze doesn't come out looking so hot with chemicals or elemental corrosion rendering rough and gritty opening versus nylon washers shrugging off these things easily.Nylon washers are a very mixed view if they're considered cheap or not.The old REKAT Knives that were USA made and sold over $100 a pop? black nylon washers....REKAT knew what they were doing...so does Gerber.

Yes Gerber is a cheap and mass produced brand.There's no gimmicks in their stuff it's either that fact of you like the design or you don't.But there is a lot of emphasis pushed by a lot of the 'buy only USA made' nuts that don't want to discuss flaws or problems on American made...they want to dramatize on any small thing by Gerber.

Yes the steel may not work for everybody but I'm not in a profession anymore where I cut coarse materials all day long.As a steel for the average knife user it works just fine and takes a good edge.Something like ATS-34 for just chores around my property and cleaning an occasional rabbit is overkill for a common knife user.
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Frotier76 said:
I actually didn't became a fan of Gerber in their classic days...Schrade was more noteworthy in my opinion in development and design.But it took an opposite turn as Schrade went under Taylor Cutlery's wing and the vast majority of their modern knives were hideous.Gerber I felt being more advanced was where Schrade should have been...especially on the standpoint of their imported fixed blades.

Gerber's edge quality?
I'd agree with that statement until I look at some pricey Benchmade's and the factory edge on them.Then I look at the highly variable quality of Buck's Edge 2X and I don't feel Gerber does even remotely near as sloppy of a job in comparison.Probably the only Gerber I've had to actually complain about was the grind change on the Air Ranger when it went to China manufacturing which resulted in a thick and wide angled edge versus the Taiwan era.

It's fascinating yet ludicrous the way the way the knife propaganda works.Someone on YouTube spine whacks a liner locking Gerber and a bunch of people say 'yeah figured it's a made in China Gerber'.Do it with a $70 Kershaw liner locking folder a bunch of people say 'of course it failed you don't spine whack a liner lock knife...you should know better'.
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Frotier76 said:
I have to disagree with that.A fair amount of people carry on about that little bit of vertical play from Gerber's Plunge Lock.Yet I do recall people dropping $80-$100 (depending on the steel)on a Buck model that suffered identical vertical blade play issues from the Shift-Lock and the bolsters separating from liners constantly...it was called the Paradigm model.No jimping anywhere (beyond the flipper to engage the assisted opening function).Slick micarta scales didn't help it either.

Good Lord I remember the Buck Tempest/Sirus Series.The cam lock was sharp and dug into my thumb which also blocked a lot of grip.Aluminum knife with no jimping on the blade spine or anywhere else...not a safe design.The liner lock was really thin like a $5 gas station folder by Maxam.Those knives were minimal $50-$60 in just 420HC.

Mentioning warranties for a minute.There's also a lot of questioning if one pays for a knife from a brand that has a warranty.That question is 'are they paying for 1 knife or 2'?Schrade's 'Never Lose It' addition they added to their lifetime warranty.You turn in the documentation and happen to lose your knife Schrade would send a replacement of that model ONE TIME.Every slip was documented by the factory in print of the model # that the knife was packaged with so someone couldn't get say a 152OT as a replacement when on file it says they bought an 8OT.Not really a reason to send a slipjoint knife in under warranty and the companies had their bases covered on abusive use and not caring for carbon steel blades voiding the warranty in the disclaimer.A company might do something nice like replace your knife with a new one if the steel upgraded slightly over your old model or has reversible pocket clip design in it's current design while sending it in for repair.That's the question though 'did you already pay for that second knife to absorb the revenue loss the company would take with this so called warranty'?...a lot of people aren't thinking about that.
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Frotier76 said:
I like how you say 'the new 110lt' (laughing).Yeah full-size zytel scaled lockbacks have been around since the 1980's.Not exactly groundbreaking idea but if you want to get technical they made a 446 Goliath,486 Large Folding Max,and the 110 Ecolite in paperstone scales in 2011/2012.Sorry I'm not enthralled by the cue of the commercial here.

Where Ganzo fits in is if they had a warranty...they'd cost more.Gerber has a warranty which is why they cost more even if they use a lower carbon grade of stainless steel than Ganzo.Beyond that the whole topic of fit and finish between USA and China made is pretty debatable considering how back and forth pro and anti China made in mass production can argue.A Gerber Remix minus the warranty?probably $12-$15.Your 'new' 110LT probably $10 minus the warranty considering the lack of materials and workmanship they take to build.
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I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I can't make a bit of sense out of anything you're saying.

The discussion is Chinese knives and you're contrasting warranties between Buck and Gerber?

Maybe I just don't speak the same language...
 
China has the capability to produce very fine well engineered products. Knives can be one of them. My biggest concern is with warranties with knives made in China. That said, I never really dealt with any kind of warranty issue with a knife with the manufacturer. Case did replace a slip joint for me when I was a kid however. That was a long time ago and was much appreciated at the time.
 
I still love my Benchmade's, Spyderco's, Buck's, Kershaw, ZT and Cold Steel, but I was getting kind of bored with the usual fair. I wanted something different and settled on buying a Mcusta Katana until I checked my local knife store's website and saw they had new Kizer's in. I snagged one of the cheapest s35vn knives they had, a black Sliver. ($90 CAN cheaper than the Katana). I have to say F&F is excellent, well until one of the scale screws fell out into my hand after a day of spirited flicking. However, I loctited all screws (apparently Kizer only loctite's the clip screws so keep that in mind if you ever get one) and used a 4mm hex key for the pivot, on which I applied teflon tape. All screws were nice deep t8 torx screws and seemed quite sturdy.

This Kizer is real easy to take apart and no blade play and is perfectly centered. Is it better than all my other American made knives? Probably not, but it is certainly on par and a welcome addition to my small collection.
 
I would prefer to support companies here in the states. This is easy for me to do because I don't like the style of 90% of Reate, WE and Kizer knives. I like classics like Hinderer and Reeve.
 
JustOneMore said:
I would prefer to support companies here in the states. This is easy for me to do because I don't like the style of 90% of Reate, WE and Kizer knives. I like classics like Hinderer and Reeve.
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Not to be a jerk as there's nothing wrong with preferring USA if your logic makes sense.Only problem I see with your boys there...they've done some overseas work...

*The Gerber Torch Series and the Gerber Firestorm...designed by Rick Hinderer

*The CRKT 6513- built so cheap that Sanrenmu makes their Sebenza clones look expensive in comparison...designed by Chris Reeve.Chris Reeve was so full of himself and didn't want a similar looking knife performing as good as any framelock so he had CRKT build the entire knife (framelock included) out of zytel...what a douchebag.Thankfully this knife isn't a coveted user among CRKT's older line-up.
 
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Ganzo is crap. Country of origin is irrelevant. They steal designs.

Purchase them, you support criminal activity. I've heard all the so called reasoning for buying one....
"I want to test it before I buy the real thing"
"I really like the design, but I can't afford it"
Blah blah. Save your money and buy the real thing when you can. If you don't like it, sell it.
This one is all over the forums, Companies like Ganzo are a cancer to our community.

Sorry for the rant. I do like some of the legit Chinese brands mentioned WE, Reate, Kizer, Bestech etc. However I always have that itch in the back of my mind that there may be a "Ganzo" division that these companies have in the basement of their factories that they are hiding from us.
What can I say, I'm a cynic.
 
b00n said:
Whatever isn't a clone is fair game. I do admit that some well made chinese knives seem to lack soul for a lack of a better word. My Kizer Nomad 2 is a well made good looking knife but it leaves me kinda cold. :oops::)
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That’s not a country of origin issue. That’s a design issue and many knives produced in China are designed by US companies.
 
Frotier76 said:
Not to be a jerk as there's nothing wrong with preferring USA if your logic makes sense.Only problem I see with your boys there...they've done some overseas work...

*The Gerber Torch Series and the Gerber Firestorm...designed by Rick Hinderer

*The CRKT 6513- built so cheap that Sanrenmu makes their Sebenza clones look expensive in comparison...designed by Chris Reeve.Chris Reeve was so full of himself and didn't want a similar looking knife performing as good as any framelock so he had CRKT build the entire knife (framelock included) out of zytel...what a douchebag.Thankfully this knife isn't a coveted user among CRKT's older line-up.
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MSchott said:
That’s not a country of origin issue. That’s a design issue and many knives produced in China are designed by US companies.
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It's a fair point, and I wasn't intending to blame it on chinese-ness of the knife. Its a US Design which I like made with good materials. It's intangible what leaves something to be desired. I am a huge fan of my Reate Valhalla and K-2, both Chinese made and designed so I am not biased against them.
 
Comeuppance said:
ZT seems to have kept their pricing structure in line with their overseas competitors - remember how the 0301 was $272, and was a Ti S30V folder? They’re now doing Sinkevich collaborations with Ti, colored carbon fiber, bearings, and 20CV for roughly the same price. I don’t think it’ll be too long before we see ceramic bearings and detent balls being incorporated just to keep up with the ever-raising bar.
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You speak well and make good sense. I enjoy your posts. thanx.
 
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