Why 10xx is not better than D2 for a bushcraft kinfe!

[craytab]

I think Deadbox can at least claim to not be working in his native language.

You see, that claim right there is you inferring that he does not know what he is talking about, so his excuse is that he doesn't speak english well.

No need for the confusion. You just don't agree. It would be much more productive to say you don't agree than to infer he is ignorant based on his understanding of the common language here.

Deadbox does fantastic reviews. Both video and with well thought out written and pictorial content. He is an asset to the forum. He speaks and writes English just fine. He even takes good pictures and makes diagrams in perfect english :thumbup:

 

[Larcivs Lepidvs]

I hear what you are saying but can you back up your statement of "marketing" with examples?

I won't even remember singular examples, they're not so important.
just look what people is used to say nowadays and then a few years ago.
You'll see that a big part of those feelings are indirectly driven by shifting market trends.
I don't think this is something new either, but not all people is conscious about it

 

[craytab]

I won't even remember singular examples, they're not so important.
just look what people is used to say nowadays and then a few years ago.
You'll see that a big part of those feelings are indirectly driven by shifting market trends.
I don't think this is something new either, but not all people is conscious about it

Okay, but "marketing" was important enough for you to mention it. Putting aside that you can't provide an example of what you claim, "marketing" is just advertising. Anyone who believes advertising deserves what they get. Is the latest fast food burger the best burger ever made as Mcwendysking claims? Nope. You have to look past that marketing junk. It is just made up words. Look at the actual facts. Reviews from trusted reviews on here go miles beyond marketing slogans. I've found steels do exactly what they are supposed to do from quality companies. D2, 1095, CPM stuff, Bohler, VG10 from Japan, 8cr from China, or AUS8 from Taiwan. I haven't been disappointed when buying from an upstanding company or maker. Not one word of marketing believed.

 

[RX-79G]

Okay, but "marketing" was important enough for you to mention it. Putting aside that you can't provide an example of what you claim, "marketing" is just advertising. Anyone who believes advertising deserves what they get. Is the latest fast food burger the best burger ever made as Mcwendysking claims? Nope. You have to look past that marketing junk. It is just made up words. Look at the actual facts. Reviews from trusted reviews on here go miles beyond marketing slogans. I've found steels do exactly what they are supposed to do from quality companies. D2, 1095, CPM stuff, Bohler, VG10 from Japan, 8cr from China, or AUS8 from Taiwan. I haven't been disappointed when buying from an upstanding company or maker. Not one word of marketing believed.

How is D2 "supposed to work" compared to how 1095 is supposed to work, and where can we read how they are supposed to work?

 

[craytab]

How is D2 "supposed to work" compared to how 1095 is supposed to work, and where can we read how they are supposed to work?

I guess you'll have to figure that out on your own like I did. The D2 in my 710 worked fine. Not my preferred steel but it didn't melt or anything. The 1095 I have in my Esees and other knives does fine as well. Works as I would expect. Rowen does a great job with 1095. Holds an edge decent enough. Tough. Sharpens easily. For me, the edge geometry plays more of a roll than the steel when speaking to cutting performance. Thinned out the edge on my Esee 4 and now it eats wood up.

And yes. These are my pictures.

 

[RX-79G]

I guess you'll have to figure that out on your own like I did. The D2 in my 710 worked fine. Not my preferred steel but it didn't melt or anything. The 1095 I have in my Esees and other knives does fine as well. Works as I would expect. Rowen does a great job with 1095. Holds an edge decent enough. Tough. Sharpens easily. For me, the edge geometry plays more of a roll than the steel when speaking to cutting performance. Thinned out the edge on my Esee 4 and now it eats wood up.

So D2 and 1095 are supposed to work the same?

 

[pinnah]

How is D2 "supposed to work" compared to how 1095 is supposed to work, and where can we read how they are supposed to work?

This question reveals why these discussions always end up on the same bad place. You can find the same exact questions on ski and bike forums. What makes a ski fast? What makes a bike fast?

The naive reductionist view of performance engineering is that quantitative analysis of materials or the object will produce irrefutable facts and that these facts will predict performance.

The more successful approach to performance engineering considers the user (skill, technique, physical abilities) and the context (roads ridden, snow conditions, materials cut).

While it is true that quantitative testing of materials and objects should always inform performance engineering, it is also true that it is insufficient and blind to critical aspects of the problem.

Not that any of this will stop the great internet past time of trying to bludgeon one's opponents with irrefutable facts. Carry on...

 

[marcinek]

So D2 and 1095 are supposed to work the same?

I expect an apple to taste one way. I expect an orange to taste another way. I dont expect them the taste the same way.

 

[craytab]

So D2 and 1095 are supposed to work the same?

Nope, I didn't say that. They worked how they worked. Get some of each from a reputable company and see which one you prefer for your given tasks. I like 1095 for my fixed blades over D2 and in my folders I can get steel that does better for me than D2 for a similar price. Other people might feel different. But they won't know until they try :thumbup:

 

[shqxk]

Both 1095 and D2 are very good steel. With proper secondary bevel, D2 should hold an edge significantly better and has much more corrosion resistance.

1095 will be much easier to sharpen and if it was scandi style knife with zero edge (no secondary bevel) then 1095 and most other carbon steel will hold that kind of edge better due to the higher edge stability nature of steel.

 

[RX-79G]

This question reveals why these discussions always end up on the same bad place. You can find the same exact questions on ski and bike forums. What makes a ski fast? What makes a bike fast?

The naive reductionist view of performance engineering is that quantitative analysis of materials or the object will produce irrefutable facts and that these facts will predict performance.

The more successful approach to performance engineering considers the user (skill, technique, physical abilities) and the context (roads ridden, snow conditions, materials cut).

While it is true that quantitative testing of materials and objects should always inform performance engineering, it is also true that it is insufficient and blind to critical aspects of the problem.

Not that any of this will stop the great internet past time of trying to bludgeon one's opponents with irrefutable facts. Carry on...

I guess. But if Craytab is going to tell someone not to read marketing, then says that something works as it is "supposed to", this would indicate that he gained knowledge of how D2 and 1095 (the steels compared in this thread) are supposed to work. Since marketing is the wrong place to gain knowledge of steel according to him, I am wondering where his supposed to knowledge comes from to comment.

 

[craytab]

This question reveals why these discussions always end up on the same bad place. You can find the same exact questions on ski and bike forums. What makes a ski fast? What makes a bike fast?

The naive reductionist view of performance engineering is that quantitative analysis of materials or the object will produce irrefutable facts and that these facts will predict performance.

The more successful approach to performance engineering considers the user (skill, technique, physical abilities) and the context (roads ridden, snow conditions, materials cut).

While it is true that quantitative testing of materials and objects should always inform performance engineering, it is also true that it is insufficient and blind to critical aspects of the problem.

Not that any of this will stop the great internet past time of trying to bludgeon one's opponents with irrefutable facts. Carry on...

Well said.

 

[RX-79G]

I expect an apple to taste one way. I expect an orange to taste another way. I dont expect them the taste the same way.

Bad analogy. The issue was that they both worked as they should, not that they contrasted.

 

[craytab]

I guess. But if Craytab is going to tell someone not to read marketing, then says that something works as it is "supposed to", this would indicate that he gained knowledge of how D2 and 1095 (the steels compared in this thread) are supposed to work. Since marketing is the wrong place to gain knowledge of steel according to him, I am wondering where his supposed to knowledge comes from to comment.

Flawed argument RX. My knowledge comes from experience. Not just my own experiences but also from people whom I know and trust. If all your experience comes from marketing, like you have insinuated my knowledge comes from, then you have no knowledge....just marketing.

 

[craytab]

Bad analogy. The issue was that they both worked as they should, not that they contrasted.

Wrong again. I said they worked as they should. You questioned that I said they worked the same. Marci is right. Why are you here doing this? Just read what we write not what you think we wrote.

 

[stabman]

Both cut things.
Neither explode.

Just use knives with each and make up your own mind.
Testing is simply repeated use.
If you want to be more "testastic", record the results.
Repeated testing plus recording the results = science.

Toss in a theory or two for flavour if desired.

 

[RX-79G]

Flawed argument RX. My knowledge comes from experience. Not just my own experiences but also from people whom I know and trust. If all your experience comes from marketing, like you have insinuated my knowledge comes from, then you have no knowledge....just marketing.

I have not insinuated anything of the kind. You have said that it is a bad source of knowledge on these steels. So I asked you what was - you said your experience. But you haven't posted anything about your experience except that you prefer 1095, without saying why.

If there are no reference materials worth reading, and you don't want to comment on the relative performance of the two steels, are you saying that anyone interested in the questions raised by the OP needs to buy several $100 knives rather than get any advice?

 

[RX-79G]

Wrong again. I said they worked as they should. You questioned that I said they worked the same. Marci is right. Why are you here doing this? Just read what we write not what you think we wrote.

What is "as they should"?

 

[craytab]

I have not insinuated anything of the kind.

Yes you did. Read what you wrote.

But you haven't posted anything about your experience except that you prefer 1095, without saying why.

I have posted a bunch on my usage of 1095. Maybe you weren't around to read it. Here is an example:

The 1095 I have in my Esees and other knives does fine as well. Works as I would expect. Rowen does a great job with 1095. Holds an edge decent enough. Tough. Sharpens easily. For me, the edge geometry plays more of a roll than the steel when speaking to cutting performance. Thinned out the edge on my Esee 4 and now it eats wood up.

I even have pictures of a knife made of 1095 after some super fun work:

And yes, that is my picture and those are my knives (well, the bravo 1 is no longer mine but it was at the time)

If there are no reference materials worth reading, and you don't want to comment on the relative performance of the two steels, are you saying that anyone interested in the questions raised by the OP needs to buy several $100 knives rather than get any advice?

Generally speaking, to fully understand if you "like" something, you will need to experience it. All we can do here is recommend things based on knowledge gained through our experiences. Believe me or don't. No skin off my nose.

 

[craytab]

What is "as they should"?

It means "as they should". Shall I define each word for you?