Why are blades rarely slicey?

dkb45

dkb45

Joined
Dec 16, 2012
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The name says it all. Why are so few new knives being made that are designed to actually cut? Stock over 3mm, partial width shallow grinds, 20dps or higher factory edges. Even customs and semi-customs, most of them follow the Medford design school, not the Delica design school.

I'm not saying everything should be ground like a box cutter, but it's actually really irritating to find an actual folding knife, not a folding bladed smasher. Thick stock can still slice, my Lil Lionspy is hard proof of that.
 
This is like asking why so many supermodels aren’t ideal specimens for birthing children.

Which is to say, it’s all about what people think they want, not what works. You know, the economy and whatnot.
 
Ive found a knife is one of the only tools that people expect so much out of. Iys not just a knife but a screw driver, prybar, axe, fingernail cleaner, fidget flipper etc. When in all reality a knifes number one use is to cut and should be designed that way. As a maker its slightly irritating because i make knives to cut. If yoi want a sharpened prybar buy a gerber :p:D
 
If I can further the OPs message a bit without trying to change the topic. In addition to the why, what knives are slicy right now?
I know of spydercos like the chapparal and to some extent their ffg knives in general.
Plus about less expensive knives like opinels.
I'm curious are there any mid to high end "slicer" folder recommendations?
I've heard WE knives has had some thinner blades recently and even a few ZTs are slimmed down relative to their usual.
 
I am with you OP.
I myself have been wondering why, when most traditional knives are built as slicers.

One possibility is that the current market is dominated by frame/liner lock knives, and it might be difficult to make them with thin blades.
Also, it might not be cost friendly to factory-grind blades to very thin edge.
 
Because folks have been marketed into the thinking that a "good knife" is a tough knife that can smash cement blocks and puncture through automobile sheet metal - not that there's anything wrong with that, but good old fashioned cutting and slicing seems to have been lost upon many of the knife aficionado nuevo.
 
SALTY said:
(...) puncture through automobile sheet metal (...).
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Rant: I have seen that in reviews of various knives, people go to a car graveyard and stabs car doors, roofs etc, and then use the result from that «test» as a pro/con for buying said knife.

Really, has anyone ever HAD to stab throug a car door? Or pry open a door in a house? Someone has mentioned first responders, but as a first responder myself, I have never seen anyone even consider cutting up a car door with a folding knife to get someone out.. or force open a regular front door when you breach a house. You ALWAYS have other equipment available. Taking a front door can be challenging enough with specialized breaching equipment, like a pitcher and ram, or axe for a fireman.. and with the thinner doors found inside a house, you either take the lock with a screwdriver or leatherman, or kick it open (or use the breaching equipment you took the front door with).

I wish some manufacturers, and their PR-people would focus more on the cutting part of using a knife instead of the fantasy some of them are selling, bit simple cutting isn’t that sexy..

Rant over. Good to get that one out of system.. :)
 
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In addition to market and marketing forces (moar stronger, moar better! Tactical!), it may be manufacturing economy, as well.

A thicker blade, with a more obtuse grind, is less likely to break during use. If a customer sends a knife back with a broken blade, then you have to put the man-hours into handling that knife, and you have to have replacement stock on hand, which is inventory you've paid taxes on, but you're not able to sell. Either that, or you have to be able to interrupt the parts stream going to the assembly stations, which causes it's own problems with missed assembly time benchmarks. I doubt that any knife company runs their production process that tight ("lean production" is a Platonic ideal in the manufacturing world), but the point is that knives are one of the few places where you do not want planned obsolescence, so using more expensive pieces of steel may be justified by economy of scale.
 
The problem stated in the op is one reason why I have a job. So I for one am thankful they aren't all slicey lol but I agree that it's probably the marketing and mfg's not wanting warranty issues ..

IMG_20180505_120738-X2.jpg
 
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Pr3inar said:
I wish some manufacturers, and their PR-people would focus more on the cutting part of using a knife instead of the fantasy some of them are selling, bit simple cutting isn’t that sexy..
Click to expand...

BUT...fantacy is what sells those overly thick cult worship items that bring in the money.

Jeff Randall said that 90% of the knife market is BS, and I agree with that statement. The so called tactical knives being sold these days have very little to do with cutting. It's all about image and hype. Smoke and mirrors to get the money from young guys with more disposable income that our fathers and grandfathers had, and less common sense. It's all about the fantasy warrior fighting off Chinese paratroopers or the bad boy image of the fast opening knife capable of prying open a tank hatch.

Find it funny that in todays suburban world of office cubicles and computer desks, people think they need a knife far more capable of mayhem than our grandfathers who lived in a rougher environment. Now everyone want be a Rambo. It's about the so called bad a$$ posturing with the latest knife magazine of the month wonder blade you can flick out like a latter day James Dean.

But it's funny that someone like Frank Hamer, legendary Texas ranger who brought many real killers to justice, and who brought down Bonnie and Clyde, carried a pretty good assortment of guns, but his pocket knife was a mundane old well used Barlow knife with worn down blades. Maybe Hamer wasn't worried about image.



Strange how real working cowboys, freight wagon drivers, sailors, soldiers, and lawmen all carried thin bladed pocket knives that had no one hand opening, not even a lock on the blade, yet for generations those old knives did the job they were designed to do; cut things. These days on construction sites all over , the most used knife issn't some high tech folder with a prybar blade, and capable of de-animating enemy series, but a simple low cost sliding blade utility knife like a Husky or Stanley, or Super knife with a razor thin blade about an inch long. They cut insulation, strip cable, cut wall board and anything else on the site that needs to be cut. They cost about 5.99 at Home Depot.

It's all about the hype. But then, maybe the world of the modern office cubicle environment or fast food industry is more dangerous than I thought.
 
WilliamEdward said:
If I can further the OPs message a bit without trying to change the topic. In addition to the why, what knives are slicy right now?
I know of spydercos like the chapparal and to some extent their ffg knives in general.
Plus about less expensive knives like opinels.
I'm curious are there any mid to high end "slicer" folder recommendations?
I've heard WE knives has had some thinner blades recently and even a few ZTs are slimmed down relative to their usual.
Click to expand...

I think that answering this question is going to require building some framework.

"Slicey" is a property that would seem to be defined by the initial thickness of the blade, and by the type of bevel grind. Full flat, then high flat, in production knives. If we're talking about "the best", then I suppose a saber grind would be "the best", but I'm not personally aware of any production companies making saber grind blades below the $200 mark.

As for spine thickness? 0.125" is 1/8 of an inch, and the more zeroes on the right side of the decimal point, the better it should do at separating material. An Opinel No. 6 is quoted by one website as having a blade thickness of 0.05, which is a little less than 1/16 of an inch.

As usual, we're not all going to agree perfectly on how to compare the "slicing" qualities of various blades. But we should be able to build up an understanding by comparing the numbers that make up good slicing performance.
 
miso2 said:
I am with you OP.
I myself have been wondering why, when most traditional knives are built as slicers.

One possibility is that the current market is dominated by frame/liner lock knives, and it might be difficult to make them with thin blades.
Also, it might not be cost friendly to factory-grind blades to very thin edge.
Click to expand...

There will also be less chance for people who use knives to bend,chip,break blade that will ultimately go back for warranty issues,which I'm sure no knife company wants to deal with.
 
My EDC Spyderco Gayle Bradley Version 1 doesn't have any problems slicing. If anything I have to be careful using it or I'll slice something I don't want to. I think there are many great slicing knives being offered to the public these days. I have a couple of Victorinox Fibrox model boning and filet knives that are awesome slicers for fish, etc. Obviously a fixed blade has a much longer edge for slicing than a folder. A boning knife has more spine and is not as flexible as a filet knife.




 
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Enduro's sure work well gutting trout, and I love the military Spydercos(even though they are thicker), they spread peanut butter well too(unless they were used on a fish first)

years ago I sold off some thick ZT's Loved the designs(like the 0550, 0560)!

now I'm moving to fixed hunting knifes and buying the LT versions for a thinner blade. 1/4 inch blades sure get hung up in rib cages(of deer, lol)
 
dkb45 said:
The name says it all. Why are so few new knives being made that are designed to actually cut? Stock over 3mm, partial width shallow grinds, 20dps or higher factory edges. Even customs and semi-customs, most of them follow the Medford design school, not the Delica design school.

I'm not saying everything should be ground like a box cutter, but it's actually really irritating to find an actual folding knife, not a folding bladed smasher. Thick stock can still slice, my Lil Lionspy is hard proof of that.
Click to expand...

Have you ever heard the phrase “wag the dog”, if not, go look it up and that will explain everything ;)
 
Could also be that a double hollow bevel grind on 1/8" thick stock is some kind of "sweet spot" in mass production. Full flat grinds require relatively more grinding, and thinner stock may require lower SFM on your belts, to keep it from overheating. A thicker blade stock (than 1/8) takes more time at the bevel grinding station, and chews up your media faster. A double hollow bevel can be done in one pass, and then it's right into the heat treat oven, with no need for fancy processes like stress relief.

Thicker stock can also be done without coolant, which is another consideration.

I don't know for sure, because I'm not a process engineer. But if you look around the mass-production market, you see a lot of the same thing, especially between $40 and $150: blade stock right around 0.125, and double hollow bevels. So there must be some set of factors driving these decisions.
 
Variety. Like many things, knives are made by different companies with different philosophies. Some are made with edge geometry and performance in mind while others are made to be tough with thicker stocks and grinds.
 
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