Why Are Sebenzas So Popular?

[Confederate]

Because I can't carry a .357 everywhere (well almost everywhere) without putting my freedom at risk. Plus guns are a PITA to carry and are rarely usefull. In my almost 50 years of life I've only needed a gun 3 times. Knives I use daily. Plus I really like Sebenzas and I guess that's what matters.

You're missing the entire point. This is very frustrating.

Forget whether you need a gun or not. We're talking manufacturing to user cost. A great revolver like the 686, or a damn good revolver like the Security-Six, selling in stainless for a lot cheaper. Revolvers require: 1) more materials; 2) greater tolerances; 3) more processing steps; 4) more man hours. Use is more specialized. Ruin a revolver and it's repairable. Ruin a knife and you throw it away and get a new one. A good knife is available for sixty bucks or so. A CRKT not quite the nice knife I think it is? Maybe, but AfterTFD knows what I'm getting at. A knife should not cost as much as a gun.

So what is it that makes people pay? The S&W is an excellent revolver. The Korth is an excellent revolver. The Smith costs about $400+; the Korth costs $4,000+, ten times more. I've seen both revolvers and they're roughly the same. Yet people buy the Korth.

 

[Artilary6]

Precision is infact expensive. However, certain things come for "free". Such as the precision of a CNC machine. They machine accurately out to ten thousandths of an inch. Thousandths of an inch is not uncommon in manufacturing and is not especially precise, unless restricting size to be, for example, plus one thousandth and minus zero. Things like that can add cost. So, its not like someone is on a conventional mill making a sebenza handle (of course I am assuming this, correct me if i'm wrong). So, many aspects of the precision is not as expensive as some may think, except for the upfront cost of the CNC machine and of course the cost of a programmer and operator. Skill is required to properly "setup" the workpiece in the machine and tool wear comes into account when machining precisely is whats intended, so tools may need to be replaced often. Unique graphic sebenzas are simply CNC pre-programmed patterns that are done on a computer program. I guess there is also hand finishing and maybe even the blades are ground by hand, I really don't know. So, If I were to design a knife with mating part tolerances in the ten thousandths tolerance range, I would expect the overall product to cost at least $350.00, ESPECIALLY if there is any skilled handwork to be done at all. Just by looking at a Sebenza, it appears that there is a lot of setup time involved in manufacturing one. I am sure they have their process totally refined and streamlined in order to minimize cost. So anyway, considering that the Sebenza is not a mass produced product, and looking at the level of quality involved I would immagine that they are not all that overpriced. Add in the fact that knife lovers know and appreciate quality and that they are willing to pay more for that quality, then the Sebenza price point looks about right to me.

 

[AfterTFD]

Well, this is not meant to be nasty or anything, but that is your value judgement, and other people might judge the exact opposite.

It is true that many more uses exist for a small knife than for a gun.

Alright. I don't know revolvers, as previously stated, so my question is there a cheaper revolver that has the same specs and approaches the same quality (I literally don't know). If there aren't, then it DOES affect the argument.

Then I entirely misunderstood the question. I thought you were asking if really crappy revolvers existed, not whether quality revolvers could be found for cheaper than the 686. That basically depends on who you buy your revolvers from.

 

[NIB]

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Right from the start of this discussion, you confused the issue. Analogies to guns or cars, or anything but other knives, are supposed to help us understand, but rarely do. Compare knives to knives, if you want to understand the economics of a knife.

Knives fall into different categories, such as design, quality, and cost.

Design determines what tasks they do best. Quality determines how well they do them. Cost determines how accessible they are and to which segment of the market. Besides these aspects of the knives themselves, there are the personal preferences of the buyers to consider.

In many product lines, price goes up much faster than quality, and this is generally true of knives. Marketing may intervene, and a company may accept a very tight profit margin in order to develop a customer base.

Another company may have established its base, and can afford to serve it at a level of excellence that customers accept will cost much more than other knives nearly as good.

Those customers with the money and an interest in these higher-end knives can support their continued manufacture, just as they support a vast number of custom knifemakers.

As long as no one is forced to spend at Sebenza levels, and CRK continues to sell what they manufacture of these and many other similarly expensive knives, we are looking at a typical free market supply and demand situation.

You ask why Sebenzas are so popular. Well, how popular are they? Those who like them and can afford them, buy them. Those who change their minds, re-sell them.

This is no different than the popularity of the Spyderco Native, Kershaw Leek, Benchmade 710, or Strider SnG. Whatever it costs, if you want it and can afford it, you buy it. The intersection of a product and its buyer is a complex that is similar to other decisions, but is ultimately individual and unique.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

why do people like the sebenza? simple, elegant, easy to maintain, very strong/durable, many variations, suberb fit/finish, classy company. im sure there are more reasons people can list, these are why i have two.


as far as the gun/knife comparison, i used to think this way. why spend 500.00 on a knife when i can buy a gun for the same money?

the mindset i quickly adopted was this: Why is a gun better expenditure than a knife?

to me, comparing the two is like comparing apples and kangaroos. fortunately i can buy most of the guns AND knives i want. but i find the two categories mutually exclusive.

 

[RNST]

I own six CRK knives including four LE Sebenza, Mnandi and Large Classic Seb.

Ten Microtech's of all variants. Not gonna go there, that is a totally different subject and it would take pages to explain.

Two Strider SMF's and a Lightfoot folder.

Zero Tolerance, Kershaw, CUDA etc round out the bottom end of the collection.

My point is, I would gladly lay down $1000 on a Limited Edition Mammoth Ivory Bark Sebenza with a Damascus Blade over a $2000 Custom Strider. The CRK arrives in perfect condition and is a great tool as well as a beautiful knife. The custom Strider will show up in with what collectors call "Strider" marks like a scratch on the blade or the clip. All acceptable to Strider Collectors but unacceptable to a CRK collector. But since the Strider appears as a Balls Out Weapon, that is cool because so many have been supplied to operators in Iraq or Stan.

Talk about Apples and Oranges. Why have so many of you equated a CRK knife with a hand gun. I shake my head; why not equate a $4000 Mountain Bike with a Four Wheel Drive? Or for that matter Jenna Jamison (sp?) with your wife of the past 20 years.

 

[Greg]

Tell me why.

OK. You've been told.
You don't get it.
You want to argue.
Easy.
Don't buy one.

Comparing different items never works.
Why pay $4000 for a Rolex watch when a McDonalds burger is only $1?
Why pay $200 for an Ipod when you can get a real DVD player for $35?

If you think $400 is an expensive knife, you haven't been looking.

Greg

 

[jjacques]

It's all personal preference, in the end.

If you don't want to spend $400 on a knife, don't buy a Chris Reeve. But if you DO want to spend $400 on a knife, Chris Reeve would be my first recommendation.

 

[49 Pan]

It could be as simple public perception, if it costs more it has to be better!

A little experiment was done with two identical items from the same manufacturer. The look of one product was altered to make it look a little different. A higer price was placed on that item and the two were placed side by side. People were asked to evaluate the two items and indicate a preference. In most cases the higer priced item was chosen. The lower priced item was deemed to be inferior even though the items were really the same.

Just a possibility.....and my $.02

PanMan

 

[PghMitchS02]

...
Many are as expensive as very decent stainless .357 magnum revolvers.

So why would someone pay as much for one as a S&W 686 combat .357? It seemingly violates the laws of the universe. Or am I missing something?

Uhhh . . . Why not buy something less than a Smith 686? Because it ain't the same thing, that's why! You know how the 686 feels, right out of the box, yet it really does not look that much different from any other wheel gun. Use it and you know your money was (arguably) well spent.

My interests changed, so it is long gone, but I still miss my 6 inch 686. Sweetest handgun I had . . .

 

[Lycosa]

Morimotom said it best: you're comparing a pistol, a revolver, to a folding knife. Impossible. This knife and revolver are outstanding in their own right.
Lycosa

 

[kkim0229]

You ask why Sebenzas are so popular. Well, how popular are they? Those who like them and can afford them, buy them. Those who change their minds, re-sell them.

This is no different than the popularity of the Spyderco Native, Kershaw Leek, Benchmade 710, or Strider SnG. Whatever it costs, if you want it and can afford it, you buy it. The intersection of a product and its buyer is a complex that is similar to other decisions, but is ultimately individual and unique.

Really well said. Sebenza's got the hype as the best functional folder, but actually posts like this, disputing the quality of Sebenza, are boosting it. Although there are several knives out there with similar quality, Sebenza always becomes an issue and people talk about it, and it doubles the hype. In other words, in terms of actual sale, Sebenza is not as POPULAR as you imagine.

Let me give an example. Suppose you just dunk $400 on Sebenza. You are more than likely write a review about it online, because you just invested so much in a knife, and you feel a need to make it public and share with others. People talk about it whether you made a good decision or not, but meanwhile, people get stuck with the idea "Sebenza is the best." Or you buy a Kershaw Leek which costs about 1/8. You might be just as satisfied with the knife, but less likely to go online and rave about it. And also, as much as some are totally blown away with the knife despite money they paid, a lot of people are dissatisfied with it for the price tag. They resell it, but again, not with so much publicity.

Conclusion: You get the illusion that Sebenza is so POPULAR when it's only just as popular as other ordinary knives.

 

[KeithAM]

The following was shamelessly cut and pasted from a similar thread. The comparison to a gun doesn't much for me -- the bottom line question is -- is a Sebenza worth what it costs?

Okay everyone, here's what it all boils down to:

"Sebenzas aren't worth it!"

"Yes they are!"

"No they aren't"

"Yes they are!"

"No they aren't"

"Yes they are."

Repeat 500 times and then start a new thread on the same subject about once a month.

Seriously, don't listen to anyone else on this thread!

If you want to know whether a Sebenza is worth it, go for the no risk trial: buy a used one (a nice one just went for $250 on the for sale forum). Carry and use it for a few months. Take it apart, clean it, lube it, and put it back together again. Carefully compare it to all of your less expensive knives.

Then decide FOR YOURSELF whether it's worth it. If you decide it's not, sell it. You'll get every penny back. If you decide it was worth it, you'll know what to do. And if you further decide it would be worth the extra money to get a shinynew one, go for it. Or, have the used one reconditioned to look like new for a nominal fee.

There. Simple.

Now the rest of you go away.

 

[J85909266]

Right from the start of this discussion, you confused the issue. Analogies to guns or cars, or anything but other knives, are supposed to help us understand, but rarely do. Compare knives to knives, if you want to understand the economics of a knife.

Knives fall into different categories, such as design, quality, and cost.

Design determines what tasks they do best. Quality determines how well they do them. Cost determines how accessible they are and to which segment of the market. Besides these aspects of the knives themselves, there are the personal preferences of the buyers to consider.

In many product lines, price goes up much faster than quality, and this is generally true of knives. Marketing may intervene, and a company may accept a very tight profit margin in order to develop a customer base.

Another company may have established its base, and can afford to serve it at a level of excellence that customers accept will cost much more than other knives nearly as good.

Those customers with the money and an interest in these higher-end knives can support their continued manufacture, just as they support a vast number of custom knifemakers.

As long as no one is forced to spend at Sebenza levels, and CRK continues to sell what they manufacture of these and many other similarly expensive knives, we are looking at a typical free market supply and demand situation.

You ask why Sebenzas are so popular. Well, how popular are they? Those who like them and can afford them, buy them. Those who change their minds, re-sell them.

This is no different than the popularity of the Spyderco Native, Kershaw Leek, Benchmade 710, or Strider SnG. Whatever it costs, if you want it and can afford it, you buy it. The intersection of a product and its buyer is a complex that is similar to other decisions, but is ultimately individual and unique.

This is a beast of a post. I don't know how you still have the remaining patience to type things like this up. Great job articulating it all.

I'll never understand why people reach so hard to condemn or debunk the Sebenza like it's some kind of hoax. It's a nice knife well worth the price to many, many people who truly know and love knives. There's really nothing to get so worked up about other than just plain old sour grapes.

 

[Sam Salvati]

Personally, a sebenza is not just a fantastic knife, in construction design and materials. It is also sort of like a secret handshake. When you see someone else who has one you know they know a GOOD KNIFE. They are a secret password into the underground blade-owner's speak easy where the CRKT and Busse guys are stopped at the door (just a JOKE take it easy CRKT and busse guys!).

 

[shawn79]

You see...this is the problem with america. 350-700 for a damned old knife is crazy...atleast to me. I never understood it, probably never will. I've seen 'em and wasn't all that impressed. They're not very attractive and with all that picture stuff they do to them it makes them look like something from a flea market. I think most people buy crap like that just to say they bought it. It makes some folks feel all fuzzy inside when they say: "That? That's a Chris Reeves Sebenza Large Classic Jesus Christ of All Knives. I gave 700 dollars for it!" To me that says: "I did something goofy with my money". But, hey...it's your money! As long as your kids aren't starving and I'm not paying taxes for you have at it, I say! That's the American way, you see. That's what Superman was fighting for: Peace, Justice and envy driven economy! Don't covet your neighbors cow...just by a bigger (or smaller) more expensive one just to say you did it and yours cost more than his!

And this whole fit and finish stuff...just doesn't do it for folks like me. It may be pretty and it may work like a clock, hell, it might even be the next best thing since sliced bread...but I'll take 150 of that 350 for the small one and buy a good production knife, then take the other 200 and put myself a 300 magnum on la-away at Border's!

Of course, that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[longbow]

My opinion is this. Have hand guns and have knives. Hand guns are better for personal defense. Knives are better for more of an everyday use type of thing. Don't carry a knife for s.d. do carry handgun for such. I have owned Sebbies(2) in the past and they are very well made knives. Grip ergo's suck for me. I carry EKI's pretty much exclusively due to the superior grip ergo's. Sebbies are Six Sigma quality which says alot in the manufacturing world. Don't know if they are Six Sigma rated company but imho Six Sigma quality knives. keepem sharp

 

[J85909266]

Observe sours grapes hard at work.

 

[GronK]

Uhhh . . . Why not buy something less than a Smith 686? Because it ain't the same thing, that's why! You know how the 686 feels, right out of the box, yet it really does not look that much different from any other wheel gun. Use it and you know your money was (arguably) well spent.

My interests changed, so it is long gone, but I still miss my 6 inch 686. Sweetest handgun I had . . .

Uhhh . . . Why not buy something less than a Sebenza? Because it ain't the same thing, that's why! You know how the Sebbie feels, right out of the box, yet it really does not look that much different from any other knife. Use it and you know your money was (arguably) well spent.

My interests changed, so it is long gone, but I still miss my Sebenza. Sweetest knife I had . . .